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  1. #1
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    Dumb bike racing question

    Watching the Amgen Tour of Ca, I was wondering why an entire team never forms a breakaway? They could all work toghether and build a time lead that would be hard to over take. I have never seen this so maybe someone out there can educate me.

  2. #2
    Lincoln, CA Mojo Slim's Avatar
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    Dumb Bike Racing Question #2: Why don't they use helmet mirrors?
    Truth is stranger than reality.
    '96 Giant ATX 760 MTB
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  3. #3
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
    Watching the Amgen Tour of Ca, I was wondering why an entire team never forms a breakaway? They could all work together and build a time lead that would be hard to over take. I have never seen this so maybe someone out there can educate me.
    an entire team breaking away.
    That would be team Cinzano...
    otherwise there's no way in *blep* that any other self-respecting teams are gonna let 4 riders from one team get away, much less the entire team...
    It may seem like riding off the front is just a wave of the hand - we're off - but really gaping a peleton is brutal hard stuff - as is bridging any gap, even one which might only be 40 or 50 yds.

    Although, there have been instances in Pro peletons where 2 guys from a team have rode off, to be later caught by another team member who rode off the front later in the stage to form an unbelievable advantage...

    mirrors - in a race - there's almost no reason to know who/what is going on behind you. everything important is happening in front of you.
    that said, riders do look back, especially when they know they're gettin caught by the on-rushin peleton. But that's just confirming what is already known and really is just a sign of resignation.
    if you're doing a leadout for another team member at a sprint, knowing they're on your wheel might seem important, but if he's not back there, whaddya gonna do? again serves almost no purpose to know. You either 'go' or don't 'go'. Don't go and your name is mud. Eddy would always 'go'. Its not a decision which needs makin... Leadout is your job? you go!
    watch the final Klics at the end of any TofC stages. The guys in the front 3rd NEVER look back. Their attention is totally riveted on what's happening in front of them, rider and road wise.
    Last edited by cyclezen; 02-20-09 at 12:28 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rob_K's Avatar
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    Yes, my SiL wanted to ride the big Tour in Franceland and so I patiently let him explain it all to me. I know now that I'll never, ever ride a race. Partially because it's still very obscure and secondly, I lost interest when so much "team tactics" were involved in getting one chosen person to the dias.

    Perhaps whilst we're asking dumb questions, can someone explain to me how blokes like my SiL sit in front of the bloody idiot box watching these blokes bike half way around a country. Second dumb question... why is there absolutely no interest in the women's TDF? I know for myself, those few times I sit behind the box, I know I'd rather watch the female Dutch hockey team than watching sweaty blokes run around a field... except for the wrestling of course.
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    i have a dumb question what is a "bloke"

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    Senior Member gear's Avatar
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    I had a coach tell me once (a very long time ago) "you can't win a race looking in the mirror". I have found it to be good advice for life.

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    While that breakaway team completely tires itself out to be left with nothing in reserve, other teams would work together and gradually reel them in. Just like within one team, all the team members working together is better than just one guy working, multiple teams working together are better than one. Of course, this assumes a road race that is long enough.

    And that's not counting the fact that it wouldn't be practical for a whole team to breakaway, since not all its members have the same strengths and characteristics. That's why it's called a "team". If a team did try this, they just wouldn't be allowed to get away with it by other teams, and so the whole idea would quickly break down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dsteve View Post
    i have a dumb question what is a "bloke"
    bloke = man, guy, dude

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    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    The peloton would not allow it to happen. You'd see teams cooperating to catch such a breakaway, and the members of one team, regardless how strong, are no match for the entire peleton.

    Mirrors - I doubt I'd use a mirror if they closed the roads to traffic and had car and motorcycle escorts for me as I ride.

    A "bloke" is a term you use when you don't know or remember a person's name.

    Watching racing on TV: I do it while I'm doing other things, like ironing shirts, correcting papers, cleaning my bikes, making dinner, etc.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
    Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831

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    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
    While that breakaway team completely tires itself out to be left with nothing in reserve, other teams would work together and gradually reel them in. Just like within one team, all the team members working together is better than just one guy working, multiple teams working together are better than one. Of course, this assumes a road race that is long enough.

    And that's not counting the fact that it wouldn't be practical for a whole team to breakaway, since not all its members have the same strengths and characteristics. That's why it's called a "team". If a team did try this, they just wouldn't be allowed to get away with it by other teams, and so the whole idea would quickly break down.
    +1 Also, the pro peloton consists of world champions, olympians, national champions for road and track complimented by others who represent the top 1% of 1% of the best cyclists. The athletes are distributed between the teams with each team getting some great talent. And even though some are better than others they are not that much better. The difference in winning a grand tour for the GC may be a 10s of seconds over weeks of racing.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
    Watching the Amgen Tour of Ca, I was wondering why an entire team never forms a breakaway? They could all work toghether and build a time lead that would be hard to over take. I have never seen this so maybe someone out there can educate me.
    Johan Bruyneel's book "We Might as Well Win" is excellent to learn about pro racing and the various races. The team managers call the shots and control the team from the car. Much like a pro football coach sending in plays from the sideline.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rob_K;839309 Second dumb question... why is there absolutely no interest in the women's TDF? I know for myself, those few times I sit behind the box, I know I'd rather watch the female Dutch hockey team than watching sweaty blokes run around a field... except for the wrestling of course.[/QUOTE]

    It's a sad thing about women's sports around the world, with some exceptions. There was a race here in America called the Women's Challenge, sponsored first by Ore-Ida then Hewlett-Packard. It was a stage race with the best women from around the world and $125,000+ in prizes. A friend of mine raced it several times and was a domestique for the winning team one year. It was sad when they pulled the sponsorship.

  13. #13
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    There is significant women's pro racing going on. The scope and scale are less.

    In 2007, we were cycling in Tuscany and saw the finish of one stage of the Giro della Toscana Int. Femminile http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?...cana07/default There were a couple of local racers from our area who were on the US National team competing.

    Webcor builders, the main sponsor of our racing club, sponsors a women's pro team. Here is the schedule. http://www.webcorcycling.com/2009/schedule.html Two of the women who went to the Beijing Olympics spoke at last Monday's club meeting. It was great to hear about their experience at the Olympics and they stressed the importance of the racing team in allowing them to have the chance to succeed as individuals in the Olympics.

    Here is another women's pro team Team Tibco. http://www.teamtibco.com/schedule.html. They raced as did Webcor in the Amgen Tour of California criterium.

    Another local pro team is Proman. http://www.promanracing.com/ Shelly Olds is pictured on the site. She recently competed in Track World Cup and won a bronze medal in the points race. She and 5 other women lapped the field. In the points race, if you lap the field you are awarded 20 points - not easy to do.

    There are numerous international women's teams such as Highroad and others.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    Senior Member Rob_K's Avatar
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    It's still amazing. It's like the Aussie sheila's cricket team... you might get one brief shot a year, otherwise you wouldn't know most women's teams of any sort exist. I'm not all that surprised, with respect, women's tennis is as boring as bat sh1t, as is the cricket, netball etc., etc. It really is a shame in many ways. Women's hockey... especially the dutch girls team is worth a good look at tho

    The other thing I'm not real keen about is the omnipresent air of drug allegations and inuendo in pro cycling. There was a mini doco about it here once. There were cyclists confessing to injecting clean urine straight into their bladders. There was the discovery of vials of growth hormone in hotel rooms, you name it.

    Fair suck of the sav... anyone who injects someone else's urine into their bladder might really want to examine carefully what they're doing. To me it ruins any sport and really duds the sponsors. If you can't make the top 1% that's too bad.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
    women's tennis is as boring as bat sh1t, .
    Now that's where you and I are different. I have no attraction whatever to the men who play tennis.

  16. #16
    Let's do a Century jppe's Avatar
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    Back to the topic of team bike racing.......it is interesting to see the various strategies different teams deploy depending on the strengths of their team and what their overall goal for a race might be. Up until a few years ago I just thought the fastest guy won......

    Hincapie's stage win a few ago in the TdF was one of my favorites as they allowed him to have it 15 mins of fame for all the blocking and tackling he's done over the years.

    And a great example of just how strong the peloton can be-2 days ago they chased down the breakaway that what........a 10 minute lead?? With now that far to the finish.

    I always enjoy seeing the riders struggle to keep up at the back of the peloton. That's usually where I call home the first few miles of a ride!!!

  17. #17
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jppe View Post
    Back to the topic of team bike racing.......it is interesting to see the various strategies different teams deploy depending on the strengths of their team and what their overall goal for a race might be. Up until a few years ago I just thought the fastest guy won......

    Hincapie's stage win a few ago in the TdF was one of my favorites as they allowed him to have it 15 mins of fame for all the blocking and tackling he's done over the years.


    And a great example of just how strong the peloton can be-2 days ago they chased down the breakaway that what........a 10 minute lead?? With now that far to the finish.

    I always enjoy seeing the riders struggle to keep up at the back of the peloton. That's usually where I call home the first few miles of a ride!!!



    In Bruyneel's book he discusses breakaways and pelotons. A single pro rider alone can sustain ~30 mph for some period of time. A group in a breakaway can extend the time. A peloton has infinite resources at the disposal of team managers and they can put racers in the front to increase the speed. In the closing few kilometers, the team manager orders racers at the front to go 40 mph and one by one they sacrifice themselves. At 40 mph, the peloton can make up a lot of ground quickly on any breakaway. This final 40 mph effort is timed to catch them at the last moment. And it makes it really difficult in the back of the peloton for riders to stay connected.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    Banned. DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone Wrench View Post
    bloke = man, guy, dude
    Quote Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
    A "bloke" is a term you use when you don't know or remember a person's name.
    Is there such a thing as a female bloke?

    Perhaps a blokette?

  19. #19
    Senior Member MNBikeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    Is there such a thing as a female bloke?

    Perhaps a blokette?
    I believe they're called "birds" or "lasses" depending where you're from.
    "I thought of that while riding my bike."
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNBikeguy View Post
    I believe they're called "birds" or "lasses" depending where you're from.
    I'm thinking Rob K, being from Australia, would prefer the term "sheila".

  21. #21
    Senior Member David13's Avatar
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    Sheila, yeah thats aussie, for ... girl? or kangaroo.
    You would never use bloke when you don't remember the name. You would use, old buddy, my friend, a guy like you, your type, etc.
    You may say, dude, you shoulda never stepped in front of that bus ...
    But you would not use bloke like that. If you don't remember the name you might say old chap, old man, etc.
    The only reason I watch any sport on tv is to inspire me to get out there and do it myself, to learn more about it, about new gear, etc.
    dc

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNBikeguy View Post
    I believe they're called "birds" or "lasses" depending where you're from.
    Both are more generic terms for females that may still have very feminine characterists. But, if you're looking for the female equivelent to a "bloke" I believe it would be a "ladette".
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Rob_K's Avatar
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    Dunno about ladette over here. I still think sheila would be the most appropriate adjective.
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