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Old 07-23-09, 03:21 PM   #1
djnzlab1
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700/23 versus 700/25

HI,
One of the local LBS has a sale on 700/25 kevlar lined tires for 9 bucks each, seems like a good deal, how much difference will the 25 width make for a road bikes performance and hardware usage ?
doug
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Old 07-23-09, 03:29 PM   #2
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Width isn't the only thing- What make of tyre and the type? Kevlar lined tyres at what weight and how hard are the casings and sidewall? Lots of things to affect tyre performance and life.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:19 PM   #3
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Width isn't the only thing- What make of tyre and the type? Kevlar lined tyres at what weight and how hard are the casings and sidewall? Lots of things to affect tyre performance and life.
The 2mm difference is pretty much irrelevant performance wise. The other factors stapfam notes here are moreso. You'd be able to run them a few psi lower, of that's useful to you.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:26 PM   #4
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Hi, I suspect you will generate a wide range of opinions on this topic, so I'll start by giving you mine FWIW. Stapfam is correct; a lot of things affect tire performance besides width. I do have experience running 23's 25's and 28's all Continental ultra 2000 or 3000, as well as Ultra Gatorskins (28). All tires of the same width are not necessarily the same width, e.g., I put an older Continental 2000, 28 on my touring bike a few weeks ago and it is noticably narrower than the Conti Ultra Gatorskin 28 that it replaced.

I did not notice much difference between the 23's and the 25's as far as ride goes. The 25's are a little heavier so I'd expect acceleration and hill climbing to be affected some. I'm sure there was a slight difference, but I did not notice it, especially on the flat. These two tires are as close to " all things being equal" as you can get except wieght and width. The width of the 25mm might also cause some problems with brake clearance when removing the wheels.

I read somwhere (or I dreamed it) that the wider tire actually has less rolling resistance because there is less deformity and it maintains a rounder profile than the "skinny" tires. Maybe someone can either tell me I made it up or come up with a source for this theory.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:42 PM   #5
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$9 - go get'em! Even if you just keep one as a spare. If you have to have the very best you would not even be asking us, but if you are looking for value then you know what to do. At $9.00 even if they only last 1 season they owe you nothing at the end.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:58 PM   #6
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Forte" tires

hi,
I bought them at a local bike store that sells mostly specialized bike stuff. I was amazed how ignorant most of the employee's were about things in general hey I am newbie but they didn't seem to know their inventory either.
I asked for a 700/23 and they pointed me at folding tires. I asked if they had any other styles not sure.
I found the 700/25 next to the 700/28 and some 27inch (they still make them?)
the tire model had ( Forte 700/25 with kevlar belt) made in on of those middle east countries.
It said max pressure 125 and when I felt the belt with my thumb the tires felt pretty thick down the middle the dam bead felt like it may be wire.....
I hate wire beads......
IS there a secrete to gitting them off a wheel I broke 3 of those red pry bars with steel reinforced middles.. I finally figured out how to trap them on a spoke but the vittora beads are really tight...I read a cycling tip and they reccomend only removing the tire bead on one side and sliding the tube out and feeling for glass ouch and other debri inside the tire leaving one side on the rim,insert the new tube and then ever so carefully replace the bead with thumb pressure, I want to see someone do this with my steel rims on my ironman..
I swore several times today as I broke some of my tire tools and alot of cursing occured when I hooked up ye-old pump and the air went in out as fast thru the rip in the dang tube due to tire iron damages while trying to replace bead......
I took and oath to never buy another wire bead tire...
Doug
Help me resolve this cause one day I may have a flat on the open road 15 miles from home..PSPS those Vittora tires are new and rather pricy I hate to toss them new I put them on the Ironman and the Gatorskins on the CAD4

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Old 07-23-09, 05:03 PM   #7
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At $9.00 even if they only last 1 season they owe you nothing at the end.
Unless of course they roll off the rim (doubtful) or have the resilience and "twang" of wood (very possible). I ride on some pretty bad county roads as well as chip-seal and find the 25's (Conti 4000's) more versatile. At 165 lbs, I can lower the pressure to 95/90 and get a more comfortable, less bouncy ride with no fear of pinch flats. And, from my own experience, I can go faster on poor surfaces with a lower pressure tire.

As for getting tires off the rim, I generally use just one plastic lever...it's all in the insertion and "slide" of the lever. You'll get the hang of it. Now, some tires take gorilla thumbs to get back on, but that's another story. Make sure your tube is seated inside the tire before inflating...if not, you'll hear a shotgun blast in your ear as you inflate and the "herniated" tube explodes!

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Old 07-23-09, 05:08 PM   #8
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I hate wire beads......
I hate them as well. I have not had a wire bead in more than 10 years so I can't even ermember how I managed them.
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Old 07-23-09, 06:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1 View Post
I hate wire beads......
IS there a secrete to gitting them off a wheel I broke 3 of those red pry bars with steel reinforced middles..
The main secret is not to get tires that are quite so tight - and I haven't found that to be related to steel vs. Kevlar beads but to vary by particular tire brand and model as well as the rim in use. The easiest tires to install that I've ever had are the Primo Comet wire-bead ones on my Bike Friday. OTOH, the first time I got a Kevlar-beaded tire I found it to be particularly difficult to install and initially blamed that on the Kevlar but later found that other folding tires didn't share that installation characteristic.

BTW, if you're not already doing so, it does help to first make sure that the tire beads are down as far in the rim well as possible all the way around with the obvious exception of the last little bit of the bead that you're still trying to get over the rim wall. It also helps to use the thinnest possible rim tape - that way the bead can sit a little lower in the rim well and give you just a bit more slack to get that last bit over the top. Finally it can help to provide a bit of lubrication in pushing the tire edge over the rim - a little soapy water can make it go much easier. Talc powder also helps and is easier to use on the road.
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Old 07-23-09, 06:24 PM   #10
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Thanks

Thanks for the info shouldl have thought of the soapy water..
Doug
Ive noticed most tubeless tires for crates they always use a lubricant to seat the rim.. duh..
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Old 07-23-09, 09:45 PM   #11
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Try starting across wheel from the stem and working both directions toward the stem. If you have to use a tire lever for the last little bit the stem seems to keep the tube away from the rim's edge and the tire lever. It also helps to "pinch" both sides of the tire as you work your way around. I think the idea here is not to let the bead to seat on the opposite side until both sides are mounted.
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Old 07-24-09, 07:49 AM   #12
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You want a tight fit? Try Continental Ultra 2000s on Campagnolo Omega rims.

Speaking of tire dimensions, I have some 28mm Contis that are only about 25mm wide and actually clear the chainstays on my Bianchi. I could never have put 28mm Specialized Armadillos on that bike.
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Old 07-24-09, 08:04 AM   #13
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Certain tire and rim combinations tend to be very tight. Some tires have a larger or smaller diameter. Same thing for rims. I have not found wire bead tires to be any tighter as a rule than those with kevlar beads.
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Old 07-24-09, 08:26 AM   #14
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My experience is ... go with 25s. Superior ride.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:28 AM   #15
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I too am intersted in the difference. Currently riding Michelin Orium 23's and thinking of switching to Gatorskin 25's. Mostly due to my weight of 250lbs. The 23's have been no problem though

Thread opinions range from 'no difference' to 'superior ride'. Any more experiences?
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Old 07-24-09, 01:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
BTW, if you're not already doing so, it does help to first make sure that the tire beads are down as far in the rim well as possible all the way around with the obvious exception of the last little bit of the bead that you're still trying to get over the rim wall. It also helps to use the thinnest possible rim tape - that way the bead can sit a little lower in the rim well and give you just a bit more slack to get that last bit over the top. Finally it can help to provide a bit of lubrication in pushing the tire edge over the rim - a little soapy water can make it go much easier. Talc powder also helps and is easier to use on the road.
I have thick Tape on a variety of rims and I can have trouble getting a tyre on or off. To get in on- obviously roll the tyre on till it gets impossible by hand- Then go back to the centre of the tyre where it is located and push the tyre up into the rim and work your way round the tyre to where it is not located. Then tyre lever gently till it goes on.

Getting off is a reverse of fitting but realy push the bead away from the rim all the way round and into the well of the rim. Then struggle.

You will find that a tyre that has been used will fit and come off easier- But I do have a couple of wheels that I dread getting a puncture with. Tight rims and tight tyres do not mix.

And on the tyre width- I only use 23's so no idea if any others will be faster or more comfy. Only thing that varies is the presure. 120 on Boreas- 105 on the TCR- and 100 f and 120 r on the FCR. And all are Michelin PR 2's.
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Old 07-24-09, 01:22 PM   #17
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Soapy water works

HI,
thanks for the help I mixed up a spray bottle of that dawn dish washing soap some water and sprayed the tube and the bead adna little in the tire, was able to push the bead over the rim 100% without tools. It was tight but the lubricant made it possiable.
When I added air some of the soapy bubbles came out as the rim and bead found their place.
I deflated the tire a little to check the bead/tube for any pinching didn't find any pushed the pressure to 110 and have checked the tire every so many hour to be sure it wasn't delflating..
SO it be good the ironman bike hits the road. I ride it mostly on wet days it seems to hold the road better and it washes off easily .
thanks again.
Doug
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Old 07-24-09, 07:48 PM   #18
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I ride wire bead tires. 23 on the front and 25 on the back. Did this by accident because I picked up the wrong tire at the LBS. Did not want to drive back when I started mounting the tires. I get the better ride of the 25 on the back since I can run a lower pressure. I think I will stick with this accident.
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Old 07-24-09, 08:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I hate wire beads......
That's interesting. My experience has been that kevlar baded tires are more difficult to install, at least initially. I guess that's why they still sell both chocolate and vanilla.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:45 PM   #20
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I switched from 23s to Kevlar-belted 25s in February. They've been great. No dropoff in performance. However, they might not be true 25s, because when I manually measure their circumference, they're 2096 mm, the same as 23s.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:45 PM   #21
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My mechanic at the LBS suggested I go with 23's up front. I forget all the differences he said, but I do remember him saying the ride quality would probably go down with 23's, but not much. 25's can be run on the rear, or for $9, you have a rear for the stationary trainer.
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Old 07-25-09, 04:16 AM   #22
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I switched from 23s to Kevlar-belted 25s in February. They've been great. No dropoff in performance. However, they might not be true 25s, because when I manually measure their circumference, they're 2096 mm, the same as 23s.
Which 25's did you switch to?
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Old 07-27-09, 08:09 AM   #23
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Hutchinson Top Speed ProTech Kevlar (whew!). Mail order from Nashbar for $14.99 each.
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Old 07-27-09, 05:04 PM   #24
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Sounds like you bought them at Performance . . .
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