Hermes

I did not until two weeks ago. I started riding June 2006 and ~20,000 miles later my butt still hurts when sitting on a saddle. The saddle that works (to an extent) was a Bontrager Lux that comes stock on some Trek bikes.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a Retul bike fit by my coach. https://www.retul.com/ I get on the bike and he says, "you are sitting off to one side on the saddle". In fact, I was sitting mostly on my left sit bone. He positioned me squarely on the saddle and it felt weird. He said most riders sit off to one side to some extent and that it was probably due to cleating in from the right side from a start. The change made a significant difference in comfort on the saddle. I got rid of the Lux saddle and went to my "did not work before saddle inventory” and selected the white Alliante. It feels great. Also, since I was sitting on one side, it caused my left leg to extend more than the right and chafe the left side more on long rides. I favored my right leg when pedaling. Now I am pedaling more evenly and getting more power out of my left leg.

The Retul fit system is totally cool. First, the computer creates a picture with exact dimensions of my bike. This is done by the operator taking a wand and tracing out key dimensions of the bike. Then he put sensors on my feet, knee, hip, elbow and wrist. I pedaled and the computer created a moving stickman version of me on my bike. After a prescribed amount of time pedaling at cadence, I stopped and the operator gets a printout of my dimensions and graphic display of my pedaling. For example, it showed whether my leg remained in alignment as I pedaled. We adjusted one cleat and moved my seat back. Even though, my knee is statically aligned (plumb bob technique) over the pedal axel, as I spin and due to the way I use my foot, my knee moves forward under dynamic conditions. Also, he wants me to increase my stem from 9 cm to 11 cm over time.

We also did my time trial bike. We found that i need to raise my seat (higher than the road bike) to get optimum knee angle.

It was a great experience and I learned a lot about fitting a bike.

tony2v

Did my first hard motorpaced workout of the season last night (seems to rain on Tues nights here in San Diego?). I had to lower my seat down about 4mm because of my new Bont shoes. The stack height is lower than my Sidis and I had cut off all of the cleat mounting screws to keep them from poking my foot!. I ride Toupes on my road and track bikes and sit squarely in the saddle.

howsteepisit

I think I sit evenly, but I do angle my seat very very slightly to the left. I have always done that, most likely because years ago I rode a lot on a seat that was angle and nothing else feels right any more.

wobblyoldgeezer

Good for you for finding this out, and I hope it will add to your, already outrageously impressive, cycling.

In other sports at which I'm impressively mediocre -

Learning to ski, I always fell over onto my left hip - left leg was stronger, I tumbled when I had to trust my right leg

Windsurfing, I was pretty damn fast on a starboard tack when the left leg transmitted energy to the board, and pretty pitiful about getting back to shore on the other tack

Pity I just busted my left leg - which is pretty consistent with this hypothesis, the right one didn't keep me upright

(oh and - the right side of my motorbike tyre is pretty worn down compared to the other, indicating that I was happier putting down weight on the outside of right hand turns)

Sorry, citing parallels when maybe none exist, but it just got me thinking. Never a good thing

Stevie47

So what did he do to position you on the saddle? Did he change something or just tell you to sit square on the saddle?

NOS88

When I had my Retul fitting we found that I sit best on the saddle with the saddle nose about 2-4mm off to the left. This ever so slight adjustment helped reduce chafing and increased the stability of the motion made by my right knee. It now moves up and down in a straighter line, with less in and out motion.

genec

Are our bodies perfectly symmetrical? I doubt it as I can clearly see differences from my left to right side... and I know every pair of glasses I have ever worn is always bent in the same manner... which suits my face.

So does sitting square in the saddle really matter?

Frankly I move about so much in the saddle I wouldn't know if I were "square" for any moment of time or not. I prefer Brooks saddles, if that means anything.

George

I just wanted to let you know and maybe some others that have some chafing going on.
When I started riding almost 4 years ago I use get knee pain all the time. I tried everything,I though. Everybody I talked to said raise the saddle. So I raised the saddle, but forgot the other side of the coin. Now I'm been fighting this and I thought this is no big thing and I was determined to get it myself. I did have 3 fits and I still had the knee pain.
I started to play around with the Vargas wedges and ended up leaving one in my right shoe. That's the knee that was bothering me all along. So now the pain was gone, but I just couldn't nail the chafing part. I tried heal on pedal. I started stretching more, since I ride in the drops a lot. Anyhow I could go on and on and here's what happened. I know this shop that I'm on pretty good terms with, or would like to think that I am anyhow. I took my bibs in and showed the fitter and he said, hum. So I went back to the mechanic and I showed him and he said, by looking at the skin that was still on the pad, that it's the saddle.
On the way home I started think of different saddles I've tried. Out of the 8 or 10 I tried, I said to myself, it's not the saddle it's me. So anyhow, I started to dig out all my fit books and thought I would take some of the figures they use and apply them to myself. So I dropped the saddle a half an inch. checked my leg bend with a gage and put that at 30 degrees WOW I thought this is going to kill my knees. I went out for a 35 mile ride and no pain or chafing. I thought to myself how could I be so stupid, not hard. I'm going to play with it some more and probably have to move it up a few mm, but for now I feel like I finally done it, and I'm very very happy. I have a Aliante saddle on the Look and it feels great.

Hermes

Did you do the motor pacing at on the track or road? I did my first MP session at the track a couple of weeks ago. It was a blast. I have been looking at the Bont track shoes. How do you like them?

He had me stand up and as I sat down, he positioned me on the saddle. The way to align someone is to use the seam in the cycling shorts. The seam will bisect the sit bones (assuming the shorts are on straight). Align the seam with the center of the saddle. You can do this alone by feeling the seam and the center of the saddle. It felt like I was now sitting on both sit bones evenly but felt totally different. However, it was really easy to adapt to the centered position.

tony2v

Motorpacing at the track. We have a regular Tuesday night session, but it's rained 4 of 6 Tuesdays!
I love my Bont a-one shoes. super stiff and light and after heat molding them, they fit like my Birkenstocks! I got to try out a demo pair for 6 weeks. No problems with them on a 2 day 150 mile 12k ft club weekend ride. The strangest thing was getting to use to the no heel flex while standing on climbs. These shoes really shine on the track. It felt easy to be smooth even at high rpms, no flex whatsoever.
Bont just fixed their sizing chart. Mine are 41 with the old sizing (Sidi are 44), but now are 44.

PAlt

Hermes - Along with these other refinements to fit and training, have you bitten the bullet for rollers?

Hermes

No, but plan to in the future. Our weather has been wet and I have been able to get quite a bit of outdoor riding as well as riding at the track.

Cleave

Hi Hermes,

I guess that I sit squarely on my saddle. I had a Retul fit on my road and TT bike in May 2009 and how I sat on my saddle never came up in conversation. The 8-1/2 hour session confirmed that my road bike position was good and I ended up with major changes in my TT position (no surprise). The whole experience which included cleat fittings on two pairs of shoes and spin analysis was well worth the time and expense.

Here is a shot of me "wired up" on my TT bike with the spin analysis running on the monitor in front of me:

Hermes

Cleave:

My Retul fit changes were minor on the road and TT bikes which I thought was a good thing. The sitting on the saddle to one side came up when I got on the bike before we started the computer testing. It was an observation by my coach. What is interesting is that the previous coach I used made a casual comment about my sitting on the saddle but did not correct it. At the time, I did not make the connection of off center alignment to sit bone pain and chafing. Also, I had a couple of "bike shop owner fitting experts" that did not pick it up either.

I do think that the combination of sitting on the saddle squarely and moving the seat back improved my power. As you know, there are so many variables that affect power production that it is hard to tell. I do know that I feel better on the bike.

rumrunn6

wow. I was thinking about all this the other day. I've been nursing my right IT~Band and so I've been giving my fit and form a lot of thought. I was wondering if I was favoring one side over the other and trying to position my feet over the pedals so they were more comfortable and I feel like I want my right foot in a different position but I can't move it due to the mini toe clips I use. I almost want to move my right foot in and onto the crank itself and agnle that foot inward a little. I have no idea whats going on! I'm going to take notice of my saddle position but I think I'm dead center.

thanks for sharing

bobthib

I can't agree more. It was the best $ I have spent on this sport.

curdog

I got a LBS fitting about a month ago, which I didn't think was very thorough. I was considering a Retul session, which would be done by a company in Richmond, VA for $250.00. Is this comparable to what you paid. I would only be fitting my Synapse.
Thanks!

kr32

I just watched Lars getting fit at Retul.com and was impressed.
I thought the fact about his knee angle was interesting and could see how this could help a non racer like myself. The whole thing seems as if it could only help any rider for better health and performance.
I may check it out locally as there is a LBS not too far away listed near me that has this.

NOS88

Two words of caution about the Retul. I think it's a great system, and it is only effective if you answer questions about your riding style and goals honestly. All outcomes from the computer measurements fall within ranges of what are considered OK or out of the norm. So, the norms shift depending on the type of riding and riding goals you have. So, if you get a Retul fitting be brutally honest in your answers. Second, I have seen Retul fittings done by four different people and two of them seemed much less skilled than the others. I suppose it's like anything. Two people can be trained to do the same thing and one might do it better than the other. I was fortunate to have someone do the fitting who seemed very competent and knowledgeable. Hence, if you invest (and it is an investment) in this fitting consider asking how many fittings the person has done and see if you can talk to a few of his or her customers to find out how happy they were with the fitting. Personally, I asked what other fitting system the person was trained to use and was pleasantly surprised to learn that he had been trained in two other systems - The Fit Kit and Specialized BG Fit System (I saw the certification documents. So, I knew it to be true). I think this helps and makes for a better Retul fitting. Just my two cents.

Hermes

For IT bands problems, I suggest the foam roller and stretching as well as doing exercises to strengthen them. I use a very heavy duty large rubber band that goes over both thighs. I walk sideways with my feet parallel.

Amen.

Yes. The second bike was $75 more.

rumrunn6

3 good videos

thanks for the IT Band tips. I picked up some new stretches and will undoubtedly continue researching others. I'm not on board with foam rollers yet but I am a fan of massage so maybe I'll come around

George

Here's a good site
https://www.velosmart.com/ClientCases...4/Default.aspx

kr32

NOS..thanks for the post.
On way home from work I was thinking that this fitting would depend on what type of riding you would be doing. If you changed riding style would the fitting be the same, @ie hand positions on bars would make things different and such.
And how good are the guys doing the fitting too?
When I went in to buy my first bike one of the young sales guys at the lbs took measurements for me but when I went back in the owner of the shop looked again and redid the measurements and sized me up. Owner said I could have rode the smaller bike but the larger one was better. I am talking 54 or 56 here for reference. Point being like you said...how good are they trained and how good at making adjustments based on the knowledge. I am still going to inquire about it though.

edit.... As for the topic of the thread...I never really thought about if I sit squarely I just sit down and go. I would think it is all a matter of feel and a more or less natural "falling into place sort of thing".
And thinking more about it could it also be a seat size issue if you were "off some"?

rumrunn6

more reason for more bikes! :-)

PAlt

Hermes - the roller question was meant as a inquiry as to whether the positioning on the saddle prior to the Retul fitting might have become apparent had you been riding the rollers, as it "forces" greater symmetry on the bike and balance in the pedal stroke, and tends to magnify any imbalances one has.