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  1. #1
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Non Clipless pedals

    I ride clipless pedals. Have done for at least 15 years and I like them. However I do keep the OCR3 with clips and straps as a bike that I loan to other riders or the youngster across the road when he comes out on a ride with me.

    I am doing a ride next week and have to fit a pannier rack and the only bike I have that will take one is the OCR3. Yesterday was the final test of this bike for the ride so out for a 10 miler to check nothing was going to fall off. Left the platforms on as I would be working on the bike later in the day. Started out and didn't. The SPD shoes that I was wearing kept slipping on the platform so back indoors to change to a pair of firm soled sneakers. Still had a problem with foot location so tighten up the straps. Only went 1/2 mile before I had to stop and first lesson remembered. You cannot get out of straps by just moving the heel outwards. Luckily this happened in my daughters driveway so a handy wall appeared to steer towards and lean up against as I came to a stop. Loosened the straps a bit before I set off again. Had to stop at a road junction so out with the right foot and stop. Restart and didn't bother to get into the straps till I got across the junction. But the pedal was the wrong way up- off with the foot- flip the pedal over and get into the clip- The pedal kept flipping back upside down. Looked down to see what I was doing wrong- into the clips- looked up and "How did that Tree get there" Missed it but only just. With what I had on the back- that was some good evasion tactics and I was glad I was on the MUP by this time.

    Next 5 miles were uneventfull but I did get time to check the bike out- Gears need a bit of adjusting but OK. The weight I had on the back causes a problem but no out of saddle riding. The C.o.G has gone up a heck of a distance and with all the weight rearwards- wheelies are easy.

    But I made the cafe 5 miles up the MUP with no problem. In fact this OCR rides pretty well. I will be changing the saddle before next week so another point to note. Got to the Cafe- went to stop and those pedals would not release- I twisted- pulled up and I was stuck. Had to do a quick circuit round the car park before I realised that these were not clipless pedals. The owner wondered If I was going to just ride round his car park advertising Prostate Cancer all day- but he did give me a free coffee for my efforts.

    So Get on the way home and so as not to embarrass my self in front of the owner again. I did not bother even getting into the straps. Just rode away with the pedals upside down till I got safely on the MUP and could sort myself out. Well that was the idea- but a bit odf shrubbery got in the way. I picked it up on the clip so quick stop to clear it. Stopped the bike and tried my usual dismount of leg over the saddle- Except there is a bl**dy great big 2ft high poster 4" behind the saddle. There is no way it can be called a TomBay fall. No pedals involved and one foot was on the ground and I was stationary. If the cafe owner and his customers don't stop laughing though- he will not be having me back as a customer for a while.

    Got back home without any further incidents and did remember about the "Danger" of these pedals. They came off the bike before I even had a cup of coffee- that's how dangerous I regard them.

    Sorry about no pics (Or thankfull) but it was only a short ride to check the bike out for this ride next week. It is for Prostate cancer and Before I make a fool of myself any more than I have to on the ride- Pic attached of the bike that will be riding round the the capital next week.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  2. #2
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    We may have to create a Yabmot division of the Club for those who have events with non clipless pedals......................

    Did it ever cross your mind to remove the straps and throw them away?

  3. #3
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    After this ride- I felt like throwing the bike away.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  4. #4
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    Here is a thought based on my and my wife's experience.
    In an emergency we must rely on instinctive reaction. There is no time to think and specifically which way to get away from the pedals.
    Open platform pedals are one answer but many Cyclist will not do that because of reduced performance.
    I use one type of pedal for that reason. I use Shimano SPD and set as light as it will go. After years of using these things I have developed an instinctive reaction in any panic situation. More then once I rolled off the bike with no harm done other then bruises.
    OTOH, my wife experimented with clips, platform pedals, cleats, straps. She also bikes less then I do.
    There was a recent accident on a Tandem. She failed to instinctively twist her foot out of the pedal and landed with her leg under the Tandem. Double fractured pelvis.
    ---------------
    We are now back on the Tandem. She opted for the open platform and did not like it. Next she tried straps. Did not like it. Now she is back to cleats again.
    I make her clip and unclip her foot while we are biking just so she gets instinctive reaction in any future situation.

  5. #5
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will dehne View Post
    Here is a thought based on my and my wife's experience.
    In an emergency we must rely on instinctive reaction. There is no time to think and specifically which way to get away from the pedals.
    Open platform pedals are one answer but many Cyclist will not do that because of reduced performance.
    I use one type of pedal for that reason. I use Shimano SPD and set as light as it will go. After years of using these things I have developed an instinctive reaction in any panic situation. More then once I rolled off the bike with no harm done other then bruises.
    OTOH, my wife experimented with clips, platform pedals, cleats, straps. She also bikes less then I do.
    There was a recent accident on a Tandem. She failed to instinctively twist her foot out of the pedal and landed with her leg under the Tandem. Double fractured pelvis.
    ---------------
    We are now back on the Tandem. She opted for the open platform and did not like it. Next she tried straps. Did not like it. Now she is back to cleats again.
    I make her clip and unclip her foot while we are biking just so she gets instinctive reaction in any future situation.
    Do you have the 56 (gold) cleats installed on her shoes. They cost an additional $15 to $20 but they have several angles of release, twist in or out and pull up on the heel. They pretty regularly release when I have an "event" even if I don't think about it.

  6. #6
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    The ability to adapt to change is a good thing to develop.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  7. #7
    Just a Cyclist gash44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
    I ride clipless pedals. Have done for at least 15 years and I like them. However I do keep the OCR3 with clips and straps as a bike that I loan to other riders or the youngster across the road when he comes out on a ride with me.

    I am doing a ride next week and have to fit a pannier rack and the only bike I have that will take one is the OCR3. Yesterday was the final test of this bike for the ride so out for a 10 miler to check nothing was going to fall off. Left the platforms on as I would be working on the bike later in the day. Started out and didn't. The SPD shoes that I was wearing kept slipping on the platform so back indoors to change to a pair of firm soled sneakers. Still had a problem with foot location so tighten up the straps. Only went 1/2 mile before I had to stop and first lesson remembered. You cannot get out of straps by just moving the heel outwards. Luckily this happened in my daughters driveway so a handy wall appeared to steer towards and lean up against as I came to a stop. Loosened the straps a bit before I set off again. Had to stop at a road junction so out with the right foot and stop. Restart and didn't bother to get into the straps till I got across the junction. But the pedal was the wrong way up- off with the foot- flip the pedal over and get into the clip- The pedal kept flipping back upside down. Looked down to see what I was doing wrong- into the clips- looked up and "How did that Tree get there" Missed it but only just. With what I had on the back- that was some good evasion tactics and I was glad I was on the MUP by this time.

    Next 5 miles were uneventfull but I did get time to check the bike out- Gears need a bit of adjusting but OK. The weight I had on the back causes a problem but no out of saddle riding. The C.o.G has gone up a heck of a distance and with all the weight rearwards- wheelies are easy.

    But I made the cafe 5 miles up the MUP with no problem. In fact this OCR rides pretty well. I will be changing the saddle before next week so another point to note. Got to the Cafe- went to stop and those pedals would not release- I twisted- pulled up and I was stuck. Had to do a quick circuit round the car park before I realised that these were not clipless pedals. The owner wondered If I was going to just ride round his car park advertising Prostate Cancer all day- but he did give me a free coffee for my efforts.

    So Get on the way home and so as not to embarrass my self in front of the owner again. I did not bother even getting into the straps. Just rode away with the pedals upside down till I got safely on the MUP and could sort myself out. Well that was the idea- but a bit odf shrubbery got in the way. I picked it up on the clip so quick stop to clear it. Stopped the bike and tried my usual dismount of leg over the saddle- Except there is a bl**dy great big 2ft high poster 4" behind the saddle. There is no way it can be called a TomBay fall. No pedals involved and one foot was on the ground and I was stationary. If the cafe owner and his customers don't stop laughing though- he will not be having me back as a customer for a while.

    Got back home without any further incidents and did remember about the "Danger" of these pedals. They came off the bike before I even had a cup of coffee- that's how dangerous I regard them.

    Sorry about no pics (Or thankfull) but it was only a short ride to check the bike out for this ride next week. It is for Prostate cancer and Before I make a fool of myself any more than I have to on the ride- Pic attached of the bike that will be riding round the the capital next week.

    Sorry you had such a bad time with the clips&straps. Clips&straps are all I use and have for many many years and go in and out of them with out even thinking. In fact have them on all three of my road bikes. This post was not meant to start anything. If you use clipless pedals that's fine they are just not for me. Oh good luck on your ride for Prostate cancer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
    Do you have the 56 (gold) cleats installed on her shoes. They cost an additional $15 to $20 but they have several angles of release, twist in or out and pull up on the heel. They pretty regularly release when I have an "event" even if I don't think about it.
    No, I did not know about them but will investigate. Nothing is too good for my spouse.

  9. #9
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    It is popular in the USA to advocate diversity. It is like a Religion.
    Trouble is that things get so complicated that many have trouble doing anything to completion. In fact I am observing many people being so diverse that they can not make a living.
    I think it is called "Jack of all trades Master of none."
    Having a number of different cycling shoes and pedals is one of those complications.
    Did anybody ever go on a tour missing some things? Or does that only happen to me?
    I belong to a club: KISS principle.

  10. #10
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    I do not like toe clips - they pinch my toes and my toes get sore if I ride over 10 mi. I still prefer clips to paltform pedals with no clips. I love my SPD pedals. I can also walk in my shoes with no problem.

  11. #11
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
    I ride clipless pedals. Have done for at least 15 years and I like them. However I do keep the OCR3 with clips and straps as a bike that I loan to other riders or the youngster across the road when he comes out on a ride with me.

    I am doing a ride next week and have to fit a pannier rack and the only bike I have that will take one is the OCR3. Yesterday was the final test of this bike for the ride so out for a 10 miler to check nothing was going to fall off. Left the platforms on as I would be working on the bike later in the day. Started out and didn't. The SPD shoes that I was wearing kept slipping on the platform so back indoors to change to a pair of firm soled sneakers. Still had a problem with foot location so tighten up the straps. Only went 1/2 mile before I had to stop and first lesson remembered. You cannot get out of straps by just moving the heel outwards. Luckily this happened in my daughters driveway so a handy wall appeared to steer towards and lean up against as I came to a stop. Loosened the straps a bit before I set off again. Had to stop at a road junction so out with the right foot and stop. Restart and didn't bother to get into the straps till I got across the junction. But the pedal was the wrong way up- off with the foot- flip the pedal over and get into the clip- The pedal kept flipping back upside down. Looked down to see what I was doing wrong- into the clips- looked up and "How did that Tree get there" Missed it but only just. With what I had on the back- that was some good evasion tactics and I was glad I was on the MUP by this time.

    Next 5 miles were uneventfull but I did get time to check the bike out- Gears need a bit of adjusting but OK. The weight I had on the back causes a problem but no out of saddle riding. The C.o.G has gone up a heck of a distance and with all the weight rearwards- wheelies are easy.

    But I made the cafe 5 miles up the MUP with no problem. In fact this OCR rides pretty well. I will be changing the saddle before next week so another point to note. Got to the Cafe- went to stop and those pedals would not release- I twisted- pulled up and I was stuck. Had to do a quick circuit round the car park before I realised that these were not clipless pedals. The owner wondered If I was going to just ride round his car park advertising Prostate Cancer all day- but he did give me a free coffee for my efforts.

    So Get on the way home and so as not to embarrass my self in front of the owner again. I did not bother even getting into the straps. Just rode away with the pedals upside down till I got safely on the MUP and could sort myself out. Well that was the idea- but a bit odf shrubbery got in the way. I picked it up on the clip so quick stop to clear it. Stopped the bike and tried my usual dismount of leg over the saddle- Except there is a bl**dy great big 2ft high poster 4" behind the saddle. There is no way it can be called a TomBay fall. No pedals involved and one foot was on the ground and I was stationary. If the cafe owner and his customers don't stop laughing though- he will not be having me back as a customer for a while.

    Got back home without any further incidents and did remember about the "Danger" of these pedals. They came off the bike before I even had a cup of coffee- that's how dangerous I regard them.

    Sorry about no pics (Or thankfull) but it was only a short ride to check the bike out for this ride next week. It is for Prostate cancer and Before I make a fool of myself any more than I have to on the ride- Pic attached of the bike that will be riding round the the capital next week.
    If you want solid foot retention and comfort without having to tighten the straps so much they cut off circulation to your toes, you should use slotted cleats on your standard pedals.

    It's not a big deal; you can get accustomed to them quickly enough. You just have to remember to loosen the strap before you want to pull your foot out of the pedal -- just like you have to remember to rotate your heel when you want to remove your foot from a clipless pedal.

  12. #12
    Bicycle n00B
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    I'm just a commuter. I ride with open platform peddles. If I have to dump the bike, as I've done once now, I just jump and run/fall/roll.
    I reserve the right to be wrong at any time. :D

    Man does not live by bread alone, that's why God made ice cream.

  13. #13
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will dehne View Post
    It is popular in the USA to advocate diversity. It is like a Religion.
    Trouble is that things get so complicated that many have trouble doing anything to completion. In fact I am observing many people being so diverse that they can not make a living.
    I think it is called "Jack of all trades Master of none."
    Having a number of different cycling shoes and pedals is one of those complications.
    Did anybody ever go on a tour missing some things? Or does that only happen to me?
    I belong to a club: KISS principle.
    Do you wear dress shoes when walking on the beach? Do you wear a swimsuit to a funeral?
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  14. #14
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    All this talk about diversity- and a lot of us do not use Clipless pedals. They can't get on with them so don't use them. I do not use any other pedals than Clipless so I no longer diversify. And Last Saturday I found out why I do use clipless and why I only ever did two rides with toes clips and Straps.

    And On the ride for Saturday- We cannot get anywhere near the Start point for the ride with our cars. No reserved parking and Parking meters are expensive. We will be riding in from my cousins house- about 10 miles from the start. Thats not too bad but the ride back at the end of the day will be long.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  15. #15
    Senior Member edp773's Avatar
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    I have run ino the same problems when adjusting to clips. I like the Giant brand plastic clips.

    What works for me is to use a soft-soled walking shoe and a medium clip with loose straps. The medium clip holds the toe of the shoe on the up stroke and the softer sole holds onto the serrated pedals. The loose straps allows me to remove my foot easier.

    I have also experienced the crashes getting my foot into the clip. The most embarrassing was on a mup. But in time, you learn the technigue.

    Have a great ride stepfam.
    Born Again Bicyclist! I found my Faith.

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  16. #16
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    I think that the past 30 years have seen a resurgence of advances in bicycle technology not seen since the 1890's, and one of the clever inventions that triggered this was Look's clipless pedal in the mid-80's. (I guess another thread could be started on most notable Advances in Bicycle Technology, and could include stuff like: bicycle helmets that actually protect your head and look nice and are comfortable, bicycle shifting systems, materials technology, etc.)

    Prior to clipless pedals, I usually rode in cycling shoes with slotted cleats but with toe straps loose. I only tightened the straps if I was racing, or if I was on the track. Otherwise, getting out of the pedals was dead simple. Riding with loose straps also forced you to pedal a rounder stroke so that your feet didn't pull out at the back of the stroke. However, even if I was riding in running shoes, I'd keep the straps loose, using the metal clips to keep my feet in place.

    I much prefer clipless pedals, because now I can pull back on the pedals with impunity (with clips, even with straps done up, I'd still pull my foot on climbs if I really started cranking). Plus, in a crash, clipless pedals release automatically.

    However, one thing I have noticed with clipless pedals is that in a crash, the bike seems to get thrown higher. Not sure if this is just my imagination, but with clips and straps, the bike didn't seem to get thrown up as high in a crash...

    But the big advantage of clipless pedals is that you can wear more comfortable cycling shoes. With clips, I had to use size 43 leather shoes that clung perffectly to my feet, in order to fit inside the size L Christophe toe clips (with about 1/8" to spare betwen shoe and clip - as coaches would tell you, the clip is only there to hold the strap in place, not to hold the toe of your shoe, although this is exactly what the toe clip would do with uncleated shoes!). With clipless pedals, I use size 44 Adidas cycling shoes, leaving room for my toes to move and for my feet to expand in hot weather. Those with larger feet can adjust their cleats properly and not have to worry about packing spacers when mounting the toe clips.

    Back in the old toe clip days, you got used to the sound of the clips dragging on the ground with each pedal stroke as the rider started up. What was worse was on a tandem, if you didn't have the stoker on board (e.g., when riding the tandem to the girlfriend's house), you'd get the rear clips dragging unless you bungeed the front and rear pedals together in the up position.

    Clipless pedals have got to be one of the most useful cycling inventions of the past 30 years. Well, I should say "auto-release" clipless pedals, as both Adidas and (as I recall) Cinelli both made earlier crude locking pedal systems ("suicide pedals"), but they required manual intervention to release (reaching down and pulling something with your fingers). And of course some trackies (most notably Australian John Nicholson) just bolted their shoes to the pedals.

    L.

  17. #17
    Banned. The Weak Link's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    Do you wear dress shoes when walking on the beach? Do you wear a swimsuit to a funeral?
    I wear underwear on my head and blow my nose into my shoe. You got a problem with that?

  18. #18
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will dehne View Post
    No, I did not know about them but will investigate. Nothing is too good for my spouse.
    The Shimano SH-SM56 multi angle release cleat.........can be used to replace the black cleats on any SPD compatable shoe.

    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...Spd+Cleat.aspx

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    Do you wear dress shoes when walking on the beach? Do you wear a swimsuit to a funeral?
    No my friend, but I use MTB shoes and SPD cleats on my MTB, Madone and Tandem.
    I am an Engineer by training and believe in standardisation. I will not make life more complicated then needed just to show complexity.
    IOW, there needs to be a significant advantage for me to change.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
    The Shimano SH-SM56 multi angle release cleat.........can be used to replace the black cleats on any SPD compatable shoe.

    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...Spd+Cleat.aspx
    Thank you. It will be followed up.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    I think that the past 30 years have seen a resurgence of advances in bicycle technology not seen since the 1890's, and one of the clever inventions that triggered this was Look's clipless pedal in the mid-80's. (I guess another thread could be started on most notable Advances in Bicycle Technology, and could include stuff like: bicycle helmets that actually protect your head and look nice and are comfortable, bicycle shifting systems, materials technology, etc.)

    Prior to clipless pedals, I usually rode in cycling shoes with slotted cleats but with toe straps loose. I only tightened the straps if I was racing, or if I was on the track. Otherwise, getting out of the pedals was dead simple. Riding with loose straps also forced you to pedal a rounder stroke so that your feet didn't pull out at the back of the stroke. However, even if I was riding in running shoes, I'd keep the straps loose, using the metal clips to keep my feet in place.

    I much prefer clipless pedals, because now I can pull back on the pedals with impunity (with clips, even with straps done up, I'd still pull my foot on climbs if I really started cranking). Plus, in a crash, clipless pedals release automatically.

    However, one thing I have noticed with clipless pedals is that in a crash, the bike seems to get thrown higher. Not sure if this is just my imagination, but with clips and straps, the bike didn't seem to get thrown up as high in a crash...

    But the big advantage of clipless pedals is that you can wear more comfortable cycling shoes. With clips, I had to use size 43 leather shoes that clung perffectly to my feet, in order to fit inside the size L Christophe toe clips (with about 1/8" to spare betwen shoe and clip - as coaches would tell you, the clip is only there to hold the strap in place, not to hold the toe of your shoe, although this is exactly what the toe clip would do with uncleated shoes!). With clipless pedals, I use size 44 Adidas cycling shoes, leaving room for my toes to move and for my feet to expand in hot weather. Those with larger feet can adjust their cleats properly and not have to worry about packing spacers when mounting the toe clips.

    Back in the old toe clip days, you got used to the sound of the clips dragging on the ground with each pedal stroke as the rider started up. What was worse was on a tandem, if you didn't have the stoker on board (e.g., when riding the tandem to the girlfriend's house), you'd get the rear clips dragging unless you bungeed the front and rear pedals together in the up position.

    Clipless pedals have got to be one of the most useful cycling inventions of the past 30 years. Well, I should say "auto-release" clipless pedals, as both Adidas and (as I recall) Cinelli both made earlier crude locking pedal systems ("suicide pedals"), but they required manual intervention to release (reaching down and pulling something with your fingers). And of course some trackies (most notably Australian John Nicholson) just bolted their shoes to the pedals.

    L.
    I enjoyed this lesson in biking history. Thanks for the effort. Guys like me appreciate it.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by will dehne View Post
    I am an Engineer by training and believe in standardisation.


    The problem with Engineers is that you guys *do* believe in standards, it's just that you keep inventing *new* standards you want everyone else to adhere to....that's how we got French, English, and Italian bottom brackets; 4 "standard" handlebar diameters; 26", 27", 700c, 650b and 650c tires; threaded vs. threadless headsets, etc...

    Maybe "new" standards should be known as the Product Engineers' Full Employment Act...





    (just kidding - I couldn't resist)

  23. #23
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post


    The problem with Engineers is that you guys *do* believe in standards, it's just that you keep inventing *new* standards you want everyone else to adhere to....that's how we got French, English, and Italian bottom brackets; 4 "standard" handlebar diameters; 26", 27", 700c, 650b and 650c tires; threaded vs. threadless headsets, etc...

    Maybe "new" standards should be known as the Product Engineers' Full Employment Act...





    (just kidding - I couldn't resist)
    An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess." He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket. The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week." The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket.


    The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want." Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.

    Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"

    The engineer said, "Look I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that's cool."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post


    The problem with Engineers is that you guys *do* believe in standards, it's just that you keep inventing *new* standards you want everyone else to adhere to....that's how we got French, English, and Italian bottom brackets; 4 "standard" handlebar diameters; 26", 27", 700c, 650b and 650c tires; threaded vs. threadless headsets, etc...

    Maybe "new" standards should be known as the Product Engineers' Full Employment Act...





    (just kidding - I couldn't resist)
    You made me LOL.
    An Engineer is a person who knows more and more about less and less until he/she knows everything about nothing.
    A Sales person knows less and less about more and more things until they know nothing about everything.
    A Purchasing Person job is to fathom the difference.
    -------------
    This has been a standards joke in my Industry for many years. So true.

  25. #25
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will dehne View Post
    I am an Engineer by training...
    I understand now. Sorry, there is nothing that can be done for you.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

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