A question for you steel frame riders
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Slower Lower Delaware
Posts: 116
Bikes: 1995 Torelli Corsa Strada 2021 State 4130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
A question for you steel frame riders
The only road bike I've owned is a Torelli Corsa Strada I bought in 1995: Columbus Aelle Tubes, Open Pros and Gatorskins. The ride is very smooth; feel very little if any road vibration, almost buttery smooth. I just finished building a fixie with an older Centurion steel frame with "Tange 2" stickers on it. The rims are older Araya box sections similar to the Open Pros and Gatorskins. The fixie seems to pick up a lot of road vibration; almost a buzz. Since I have nothing else to compare to my Torelli I'm asking: do different steel frames make that much of a difference? Would another set of wheels smooth things out? I'd really like to train on the fixie over the winter but I think I'm spoiled by my Torelli. Thanks.
#2
370H-SSV-0773H
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Penniless Park, Fla.
Posts: 2,750
Bikes: Merlin Fortius, Specialized Crossroads & Rockhopper, Serotta Fierte, Pedal Force RS2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
are the tires the same and at the same pressure?
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Citrus county Fl.
Posts: 787
Bikes: Litespeed Tuscany , Lemond Poprad, 1970's Motobecane Grand Record
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Can you put the wheels from your "good" bike on it and see how it rides? I personally think the frame design makes as more of a difference than the type steel. Many people brag on how their Surly Long Haul Truckers ride and they are not made out of any of the new high tech steels.
#5
Shredding Grandma!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,803
Bikes: I don't own any bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have a beautiful LeMond Zurich (old style all steel) I love and love even better with custom Mavic wheels with Chris King hubs. Steel is a lovely material to ride on but good wheels can add to the experience.
I wouldn't spend that type of money for the fixie but maybe newer rims and different tires would help.
I wouldn't spend that type of money for the fixie but maybe newer rims and different tires would help.
__________________
______________________________________________________________
Private docent led mountain bike rides through Limestone Canyon. Go to letsgooutside.org and register today! Also available: hikes, equestrian rides and family events as well as trail maintenance and science study.
______________________________________________________________
Private docent led mountain bike rides through Limestone Canyon. Go to letsgooutside.org and register today! Also available: hikes, equestrian rides and family events as well as trail maintenance and science study.
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Slower Lower Delaware
Posts: 116
Bikes: 1995 Torelli Corsa Strada 2021 State 4130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I doubt I can put the nine speed wheel on the fixie. The wheel dish would cause it to hit the seat/chain stays. Good idea though. I'll take some measurements and see...
#7
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,643 Times
in
2,485 Posts
A Centurion is almost surely made of thicker, and thus stiffer, tubes. Geometry may also play a part. I'm a bit of a skeptic about the vibration damping properties of frames. The following is informed speculation about vibration. As people have indicated by their questions, tires are the most important thing, followed distantly by fork stiffness. Then wheels, then the remainder of the frame.
#8
Senior Member
Try a different tire or a different size? Replace the gatorskins with Schwalbe marathons or Pasela tourguards. On a trek 520, I've had Continental City rides, Pasela Tourguards and Schwalbe marathons.
I think the marathons ride better. On a Surly CrossCheck, have ridden on marathons and Botranger
hardcases. The hardcases are faster. Sorry, I'm biased- liked the feel of the marathons better. Plus they wear well and have a reflective sidewall- good for riding in dim light.
ps: are the wheels true, any bad spokes ? also is headset ok- tight with good bearings ? fork/steerer tube cracked or bent ? also is the fork correct for the frame ?
I think the marathons ride better. On a Surly CrossCheck, have ridden on marathons and Botranger
hardcases. The hardcases are faster. Sorry, I'm biased- liked the feel of the marathons better. Plus they wear well and have a reflective sidewall- good for riding in dim light.
ps: are the wheels true, any bad spokes ? also is headset ok- tight with good bearings ? fork/steerer tube cracked or bent ? also is the fork correct for the frame ?
Last edited by martianone; 10-20-09 at 07:26 PM. Reason: afterthought
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Slower Lower Delaware
Posts: 116
Bikes: 1995 Torelli Corsa Strada 2021 State 4130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thanks for the responses. I'll try a different tire. The wheels are true, headset and fork are good too.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Aelle tubing was a more "common", everyday tubing...somewhere below Columbus SL and definitely below the EL tubing that appeared in the 90's. The Tange was dbl butted and sorta comparable to Aelle-- altho without the Italian "smack". I'd look at differences in geometry and certainly tires. I ride Pasela 28's and Conti gp 4000 25's both on OP rims.....and there's a very discernable difference in ride feel.
FWIW, expectations and assumptions can sometimes color our riding impressions....and that's what keeps bike makers and marketers in business.
FWIW, expectations and assumptions can sometimes color our riding impressions....and that's what keeps bike makers and marketers in business.
#11
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,746
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times
in
815 Posts
How do your fork rakes and stay lengths compare? Those two parameters will affect ride harshness. I definitely feel more road vibration with my shorter, stiffer Bianchi than with either Capo (matching lugs and geometries, but one is double-butted 531, the other straight-gauge 531) or the Peugeot (plain carbon steel, longish wheelbase). The difference probably has nothing to do with the old myth that Columbus is stiffer than Reynolds. Steel is steel, but the geometry of the frame, the diameter of the tubing, and the thickness of the tubing walls all can make a noticeable difference.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,032
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8147 Post(s)
Liked 8,800 Times
in
4,368 Posts
Yes, different steel tubes will feel different. I have Tesch S22 and that thing is the stiffest, harshest bike I've ridden. It's a crit bike and will turn and sprint without a tiny bit of flex.
I had a Landshark made of Tange Prestige and that thing was as whippy and noodley as could be. I sold it before I could break it.
Another thing to consider is handlebars. Some will flex and absorb buzz and some are very stiff, like 3T Mutant bars.
Also, your position will affect your comfort. Sometimes a little adjustment will make the ride nicer.
I had a Landshark made of Tange Prestige and that thing was as whippy and noodley as could be. I sold it before I could break it.
Another thing to consider is handlebars. Some will flex and absorb buzz and some are very stiff, like 3T Mutant bars.
Also, your position will affect your comfort. Sometimes a little adjustment will make the ride nicer.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Maumelle, AR
Posts: 1,075
Bikes: 2012 Scorpion FX trike, 2016 Catrike 700
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The only steel bike I have ridden is the Surly Long Haul Trucker, which I have had for about a year. Even smoother than my relaxed geometry carbon fiber road bike. Of course the Surly has 700 X 37 tires with 75# pressure. The tires may be the big difference, along with the longer frame.
I would like to believe that all these factors are more important than the material of the frame. However, I do believe that if you put the very same factors to an aluminum frame, you would have a much harsher ride.
Bottom line: It takes all factors combined to achieve the actual ride quality.
I would like to believe that all these factors are more important than the material of the frame. However, I do believe that if you put the very same factors to an aluminum frame, you would have a much harsher ride.
Bottom line: It takes all factors combined to achieve the actual ride quality.
#14
Senior Member
The only road bike I've owned is a Torelli Corsa Strada I bought in 1995: Columbus Aelle Tubes, Open Pros and Gatorskins. The ride is very smooth; feel very little if any road vibration, almost buttery smooth. I just finished building a fixie with an older Centurion steel frame with "Tange 2" stickers on it. The rims are older Araya box sections similar to the Open Pros and Gatorskins. The fixie seems to pick up a lot of road vibration; almost a buzz. Since I have nothing else to compare to my Torelli I'm asking: do different steel frames make that much of a difference? Would another set of wheels smooth things out? I'd really like to train on the fixie over the winter but I think I'm spoiled by my Torelli. Thanks.
Several ideas: First, the design of the Torelli frame is better for flex and shock absorption. Second, the joining of the frame is very significant. Third, the stays and forks are very significant in ride quality. Fourth, the lighter, thinner Tange tubes are resonating with road vibe energy, and that is what you're feeling. Fifth, the heavier Gatorskin tires are absorbing vibration energy, and the tires you have on the Centurion are not.
Also, I'm pretty sure the Torellis were designed as stage-race bikes (geometry is listed as identical to Mondonico's), needing to keep the rider happy and fast for successive days of up to 200 fast hard miles each, while the Centurion was probably more general purpose, or made for short intense races like criteriums. Finally, many Torellis were made by the likes of Basso, Bottechia (not that sure about this one), and Mondonico, all of which are highly skilled in how to make a frame that rides well.
I've noticed all my steel frames feel radically different, BTW.
#15
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,295
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 4,766 Times
in
2,199 Posts
I've got an '84 Centurion ProTour with Tange #2 tubes. Smooth ride and almost too flexible in a 60cm frame size, with touring geometry and the long chainstays. Gatorskins not my favorite tire for ride quality.
#16
Pedal pusher...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,769
Bikes: I've got a bunch...
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Now I've got a '84 Centurion Elite RS Tange #2, more "racing" geometry, I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as a smooth ride. But it's very responsive...
__________________
May you live long, live strong, and live happy!
May you live long, live strong, and live happy!
#17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Slower Lower Delaware
Posts: 116
Bikes: 1995 Torelli Corsa Strada 2021 State 4130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thanks for all the responses. Just to follow up: Geomety is virtually identical. The chainstays on the Torelli are 6-7mm shorter. I put the Open Pro on the rear and there was some difference: a little smoother but nothing real significant. Since it's a beater for the winter it's nothing I can't live with. If the fixed gear bug sticks I'll probably put on a new set of wheels next year with a real track hubs.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,840
Bikes: Bianchi San Remo - set up as a utility bike, Peter Mooney Road bike, Peter Mooney commute bike,Dahon Folder,Schwinn Paramount Tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
+1 I ride three steel bikes regularly. The red bike has by far the stiffest ride. It has slightly shorter chainstays, and more exotic steel tubing (Dedacciai Zero) but I suspect that the bulk of the difference is due to the fact that the red bike has a plastic fork (Reynolds Ouzo Pro). The blue bike and the black bike are all steel, and have similar chainstay lengths. The biggest difference between them is the fork geometry, the blue bike has shorter trail (the fork is curved forward), and a much smoother ride. Both the black and blue bikes have the same rims and same tires on them. I attribute the difference in ride quality between my bikes to be the fork geometries.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,032
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8147 Post(s)
Liked 8,800 Times
in
4,368 Posts
I have a Kestrel carbon fork on my Gunnar and I think it rides great. Nicer than my CAAD5, for sure.
#20
Recovering mentalist
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On the Edge
Posts: 2,810
Bikes: Too many
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
"Ride" is often subjective but certainly tube diameter, thickness and shape have a great effect on the feel.
The biggest moderator then is wheel/tyre. Gatorskins are a good, robust tyre for the money but they sure can't boast the best ride. Try something like Grand Bois Cerf for a reference point.
The biggest moderator then is wheel/tyre. Gatorskins are a good, robust tyre for the money but they sure can't boast the best ride. Try something like Grand Bois Cerf for a reference point.