Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-08-09, 10:51 AM   #1
ticwanos
Ol' Paint
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Garland, Texas
Bikes: 90s(?)Bianchi Advantage, '68 Raleigh Grand Prix, 80s(?) Raleigh Gran Sport mixte, '95 Schwinn Clear Creek, '88(?) Fuji, '69 Schwinn Flyer
Posts: 387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cyclist in the river

My Beloved just pointed out some guy in L.A. refused to be rescued from a rain swollen river until his bicycle could be rescued also. As she put it, "Here's a guy after your own heart." I, of course, thoroughly understand where he's coming from, but came across a thread somewhere with unanimous dissing of him, first for being such a ******bag to get stuck in the first place and second for refusing to take a helicopter ride without his bike. Interesting the hostility cyclists can engender. But my REAL question is, does anybody know what kind of bike he was riding?
__________________
"In my cathedral,
colored glass holds no candle to
sunlight through trees."
-- Leon Briggs
ticwanos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 12:23 PM   #2
Louis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 4,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
His behavior makes perfect sense to me. Of course, we're preaching to the choir here.

Do you have a link?
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 12:44 PM   #3
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
I love my bikes as much as anyone, but for the guy to refuse the helicopter lift and force the rescue crew to swim across a flooded stream to rescue him was asinine. He deserves the criticism, imho. In fact, he deserves a fine. You don't endanger humans to protect your things.
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 01:40 PM   #4
kr32
Senior Member
 
kr32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Waldorf Md.
Bikes: Cannondale Six Carbon 5 and Gary Fisher Wahoo
Posts: 2,045
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
I love my bikes as much as anyone, but for the guy to refuse the helicopter lift and force the rescue crew to swim across a flooded stream to rescue him was asinine. He deserves the criticism, imho. In fact, he deserves a fine. You don't endanger humans to protect your things.
+1 what a tool imo. Bikes can be replaced
kr32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 01:40 PM   #5
cccorlew
Erect member since 1953
 
cccorlew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Antioch, CA (SF Bay Area)
Bikes: Roubaix Expert, Motobecane Ti Century Elite turned commuter, Cannondale F500 Mtn bike, Some old French thing gone fixie
Posts: 6,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
As a working photojournalist I've been in situations like this that really raise ethical concerns.
Imagine, there you are on the bank. The water is pouring fast. You can save the guy, or save the bike.
You have to make a fast decision, and it has to be right. Do you:
1. Shoot with a wide angle lens and get the chopper in the background,
or
2. Zoom in on the face of the fellow clutching his bicycle for maximum emotional appeal?
cccorlew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 01:55 PM   #6
Louis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 4,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cccorlew View Post
As a working photojournalist I've been in situations like this that really raise ethical concerns.
Imagine, there you are on the bank. The water is pouring fast. You can save the guy, or save the bike.
You have to make a fast decision, and it has to be right. Do you:
1. Shoot with a wide angle lens and get the chopper in the background,
or
2. Zoom in on the face of the fellow clutching his bicycle for maximum emotional appeal?
Brutal.
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 01:55 PM   #7
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...les&id=7158263
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 02:01 PM   #8
Louis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 4,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
I love my bikes as much as anyone, but for the guy to refuse the helicopter lift and force the rescue crew to swim across a flooded stream to rescue him was asinine. He deserves the criticism, imho. In fact, he deserves a fine. You don't endanger humans to protect your things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kr32 View Post
+1 what a tool imo. Bikes can be replaced
On the serious side of this matter and after reading the link, you are both absolutely right. The guy is a schmuck.
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 06:25 PM   #9
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Video is here:

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/loca...river-20091207

The guy was in serious danger.

Worse yet, he put others into danger.

Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 12-08-09 at 06:35 PM.
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 06:34 PM   #10
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looks like he had a lot of gear strapped to that bike. Perhaps that is what he was trying to save?

Still, I would have stashed the bike somewhere on that island and come back for it.

I would also leave my car in the same situation and leave my house if a flood or fire threatened it.
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 09:15 PM   #11
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
After he refused the 'copter rescue they should have abandoned his sorry ass.
Or after they rescued him, the cops should have been waiting to arrest him.
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 09:18 PM   #12
Louis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 4,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Or after they rescued him, the cops should have been waiting to arrest him.
After I read my post, it sounded meaner than I wanted it to sound, so I deleted it.
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 09:55 PM   #13
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
After I read my post, it sounded meaner than I wanted it to sound, so I deleted it.
Yes, you meant to say that they should have kicked his sorry butt.

I think a bill for services rendered of around $2500 would be appropriate.
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 10:37 PM   #14
Louis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 4,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Yes, you meant to say that they should have kicked his sorry butt.

I think a bill for services rendered of around $2500 would be appropriate.
And removal from the gene pool.
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 10:44 PM   #15
nivekdodge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Bikes:
Posts: 475
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK which brings the question to mind.....PCAD does a CF bike have enough boyancy to float?
nivekdodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-09, 11:10 PM   #16
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nivekdodge View Post
OK which brings the question to mind.....PCAD does a CF bike have enough boyancy to float?
Only if it weighs less than a duck
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 06:04 AM   #17
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 6,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, I've read the story and watched the video. (Thanks Blues Dawg and Tom B.) While my initial reaction is similar to others in this thread, I can't help but wonder what the entire story is. Why was the bike so heavily laden? What was the guy thinking? Why wasn't a fine or fee attached to the rescue? Don't know if answers to any of those questions would change my initial reaction, but still would love to know.

I'm also wondering if there would have been an equal amount of hostility if it had been a shopping cart full of his personal possessions instead of a bike (filled with what we don't know). I pose this, because I suspect that there may be some anti-cycling sentiment possible in some of the hostility.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
NOS88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 06:11 AM   #18
mustang1
Senior Member
 
mustang1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London, UK
Bikes: 2006 road bike, 2012 cx bike, 2012 carbon rb, 2014 hardtail
Posts: 2,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Moron.
mustang1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 06:53 AM   #19
DnvrFox
Banned.
 
DnvrFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 20,916
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
leave my house if a flood or fire threatened it.
Taking your bicycles, of course!!
DnvrFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 08:20 AM   #20
ticwanos
Ol' Paint
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Garland, Texas
Bikes: 90s(?)Bianchi Advantage, '68 Raleigh Grand Prix, 80s(?) Raleigh Gran Sport mixte, '95 Schwinn Clear Creek, '88(?) Fuji, '69 Schwinn Flyer
Posts: 387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hmmm. Consensus, even here, is the stranded cyclist was dangerously irresponsible. Upon reflection, endangering others to save property is not the moral course of action (boy, could we open a can of worms with that one...think environmentalism as a start), but if you take an ambulance ride, you get a whopping bill for that. Would he have been charged for the helicopter ride?
Also, would reactions have been differently if it was a dog instead of a bike? Just wondering. Personally, I'm with Tom and would have stashed the bike and hoped to find it later, but then I only have a vintage steel fleet purchased at garage and estate sales, nothing of great value or irreplaceable.
__________________
"In my cathedral,
colored glass holds no candle to
sunlight through trees."
-- Leon Briggs
ticwanos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 04:44 PM   #21
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
Why was the bike so heavily laden?
Obviously he was transporting a load of coconuts.
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 04:55 PM   #22
BengeBoy 
Senior Member
 
BengeBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Bikes: 2014 Pivot Mach 5.7 MTB, 2009 Chris Boedeker custom, 1988 Tommasini Prestige, 2007 Bill Davidson custom; 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper
Posts: 6,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
OK, I've read the story and watched the video. (Thanks Blues Dawg and Tom B.) While my initial reaction is similar to others in this thread, I can't help but wonder what the entire story is. Why was the bike so heavily laden?
I watched the video as well and I guess I am as not as negative toward the cyclist as others.

As I recall from my days in LA, the LA "river" is just a big concrete drainage ditch with a bike path on one side and a little bit of water trickling down the middle - until it rains. (You've doubtless seen the river in countless car chases or other scenes in any number of Hollywood moviews and TV shoes) The video mentions that he was stranded on some "islands" near Griffith Park, and it looks to me like he had a fully laden touring bike with full panniers, front and back.

I can't think of any reason why a cyclist would be out on one of these islands (or attempt to cross the LA "river" ) unless maybe he was "stealth" camping on one of the islands. So imagine if he was out spending the night on one of the islands, with his complete set of touring gear, and wakes up to find out that he's been cut off from the bank by the rising waters. Obviously, he needs a rescue, so he somehow attracts enough attention to attract a rescue crew.

In any other town in America they'd send out the fire department with a boat. But this is LA, so they show up with a helicopter. He's cold/stressed/confused, and worried about losing all his possessions 'cause he can't leave the bike and his gear on the island (which appears to be under water in the video). So he keeps asking them to send a boat instead so he can get his gear off the island. What you can't tell from the video is whether the rescuers were telling him that a boat was an option, so he waved off the helicopter.

If he didn't actually perceive that his life was in imminent danger, I can see why he wanted to save his gear. And it would be definitely confusing to ask for help, hoping for a guy w/a rope to show up, and instead you get a helicopter and camera crews.

To me the biggest problem with the guy is how he found himself down in the LA river in any case - as I said, I can't think of any reason why someone would be down *in* the LA river, though I don't know the exact spot where this occurred.
BengeBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-09, 05:04 PM   #23
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 6,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post
I watched the video as well and I guess I am as not as negative toward the cyclist as others.

As I recall from my days in LA, the LA "river" is just a big concrete drainage ditch with a bike path on one side and a little bit of water trickling down the middle - until it rains. (You've doubtless seen the river in countless car chases or other scenes in any number of Hollywood moviews and TV shoes) The video mentions that he was stranded on some "islands" near Griffith Park, and it looks to me like he had a fully laden touring bike with full panniers, front and back.

I can't think of any reason why a cyclist would be out on one of these islands (or attempt to cross the LA "river" ) unless maybe he was "stealth" camping on one of the islands. So imagine if he was out spending the night on one of the islands, with his complete set of touring gear, and wakes up to find out that he's been cut off from the bank by the rising waters. Obviously, he needs a rescue, so he somehow attracts enough attention to attract a rescue crew.

In any other town in America they'd send out the fire department with a boat. But this is LA, so they show up with a helicopter. He's cold/stressed/confused, and worried about losing all his possessions 'cause he can't leave the bike and his gear on the island (which appears to be under water in the video). So he keeps asking them to send a boat instead so he can get his gear off the island. What you can't tell from the video is whether the rescuers were telling him that a boat was an option, so he waved off the helicopter.

If he didn't actually perceive that his life was in imminent danger, I can see why he wanted to save his gear. And it would be definitely confusing to ask for help, hoping for a guy w/a rope to show up, and instead you get a helicopter and camera crews.

To me the biggest problem with the guy is how he found himself down in the LA river in any case - as I said, I can't think of any reason why someone would be down *in* the LA river, though I don't know the exact spot where this occurred.
Like I said, I'd like to know what really was going on. One thing about news stories like this is that we only get what some editor in the news room wants us to get.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
NOS88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:15 PM.