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Old 12-08-09, 01:00 PM   #1
curdog
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Brooks

I remember someone talking about lacing a Brooks B 17. I've been trying to use the search function, but have had no luck. My question is, how were the holes punched? What kind of tool was used?

FWIW This software sucks!
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Old 12-08-09, 01:47 PM   #2
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I came up with these links:

http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...s-bondage-pics

I've tied two B-17's. Initially I used a hand held leather punch which worked fine . The second saddle seemed to have thicker or tougher leather which the punch wouldn't cut through. I was forced to use a drill. Either method seems to work.
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Old 12-08-09, 02:36 PM   #3
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What was the results of lacing? I develope a soreness after 50-60 miles. It doesn't seem to be sit bones, but rather a soreness in the inner thigh. It's not chafing, but rather a soreness. It will abate if I get off the bike for a few minutes.
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Old 12-08-09, 03:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curdog View Post
What was the results of lacing? I develope a soreness after 50-60 miles. It doesn't seem to be sit bones, but rather a soreness in the inner thigh. It's not chafing, but rather a soreness. It will abate if I get off the bike for a few minutes.
Lacing the first B-17 tightened up the sag and kept the sides from flaring out. The other B-17 was almost new so the lacing didn't really make much difference; I just laced it for the hell of it I guess.

Last edited by Louis; 12-09-09 at 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-08-09, 03:25 PM   #5
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Youtube has some brooks mktg video that show production. Interesting and comes in 2 parts. Mktg hype of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9w-y24Waz4
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Old 12-08-09, 06:15 PM   #6
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My Sella Anatomica is flaring up a bit on the sides and I was thinking about lacing it; should be pretty much like a Brooks in that regard. Thanks for the tips, and I will probably use a drill too.

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Old 12-08-09, 07:55 PM   #7
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bullets
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Old 12-08-09, 09:25 PM   #8
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My Sella Anatomica is flaring up a bit on the sides and I was thinking about lacing it; should be pretty much like a Brooks in that regard. Thanks for the tips, and I will probably use a drill too.

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The punch makes more professional looking holes, but after lacing it's not a big deal.

I think it's important to make the holes symmetrical. After doing the first side I carefully measured to insure the other side was the same. Functionally, it doesn't really matter.

Last edited by Louis; 12-08-09 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:21 PM   #9
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An inexpensive leather punch can be had from Harbor Freight, and will do nicely for occasional use. (A fancy pair of pliers with spines.)

I made a template out of cardboard, and punched the holes there first. Then, marked them on the sides of the skirt, and punched away.

Next, turn it over, and do the other side to match.

Lastly, put a dab of Proofhide in the holes to protect the leather.

If you take your time making a good template, the results will be none less than professional.

And, the old addage of measuring twice, punch once should be heeded - even three times won't hurt.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:31 PM   #10
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I could not punch through my Team Pro with either a regular punch (impossible to position saddle for effective blow) or a plier punch (can't sqeeze hard enough to punch through entire depth). I ended up finising the job with a drill. I spent about 1.5 hours positioning the holes throughout the entire process. Your results will vary depending on the care you take. I did not use a card template, and measured each hole by hand. In retrospect the process would have been faster with the former method and this is the one I recommend.

Use shoe lace. Leather chord stretches and eventually breaks under the loads subjected.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:36 PM   #11
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If you can punch it - I did without a problem - the holes will be neater. The pliers punch worked like a charm, for me.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:45 PM   #12
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If you can punch it - I did without a problem - the holes will be neater. The pliers punch worked like a charm, for me.
Absolutely.

The leather on the second saddle I did was as hard as wood; that was one tough bovine. The punch was actually bending when I gave up. Both are B-17 Standards.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:53 PM   #13
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A drill works really well if the bit is sharp... synthetic laces work better than leather as they can handle wet conditions and don't stretch if they get wet.
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Old 12-09-09, 08:09 AM   #14
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Has anyone experienced a soreness at the inner thigh and if so, will lacing help? I don't want to modify the saddle for no reason. Thanks for your responses.
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Old 12-09-09, 08:41 AM   #15
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Has anyone experienced a soreness at the inner thigh and if so, will lacing help? I don't want to modify the saddle for no reason. Thanks for your responses.
Yes, absolutely, and this is the very reason I'm going to lace my Sella Anatomica. However, mine was a surface soreness, not a deep soreness of the muscle, so we could be talking about different things here.

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Old 12-09-09, 09:55 AM   #16
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Thanks Rick. I think a sureface soreness is a good description of my problem. It's not chafing and goes away pretty quickly after getting off the bike. Think I'll go buy a sharp drill bit and give it a try.
Thanks again!
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Old 12-09-09, 10:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR View Post
My Sella Anatomica is flaring up a bit on the sides and I was thinking about lacing it; should be pretty much like a Brooks in that regard. Thanks for the tips, and I will probably use a drill too.

Rick / OCRR
My problem is the same. At teh tension and angle that works well for me, the saddle flare causes some chafing, where the B17N Imperial does not, due to its lacing. SA says to increase tension to pull in the skirts, but that results in sitbone discomfort. I'm planning to add laces to hold in the SA skirts where the chafing occurs, and leave the rest of the saddle free to flex. Flex is one of the great things about the SA design. I don't want to tie the shoelace so tight that the edges of the cutout raise. I think that would lead to new discomfort.

Guess my main point is that I don't think the lacing pattern on the 17N is the one to use.

I moved the lacing on my 17N Imperial to the rear set of holes, to add stiffness to the sitbone support area without stiffening the leather in the horn area. That works pretty well.
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Old 12-09-09, 04:47 PM   #18
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[B
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
Road Fan[/B];10124814]My problem is the same. At the tension and angle that works well for me, the saddle flare causes some chafing, where the B17N Imperial does not, due to its lacing. Guess my main point is that I don't think the lacing pattern on the 17N is the one to use.


I moved the lacing on my 17N Imperial to the rear set of holes, to add stiffness to the sitbone support area without stiffening the leather in the horn area. That works pretty well.
Yes Road Fan,
Right, I agree based on what I know, and that's why I didn't want to change the tension on my SA either. In any case it doesn't cost much, and I can always un-lace the shoe string if it doesn't solve the problem (or if it makes the problem worse . . . ).

Falls well into the "Worth a Try" category in my opinion!

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Old 12-09-09, 08:18 PM   #19
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At any moment now there should be a cluster of posts about the futility of going to all this trouble for obsolete technology!
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Old 12-10-09, 01:08 AM   #20
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[B

Yes Road Fan,
Right, I agree based on what I know, and that's why I didn't want to change the tension on my SA either. In any case it doesn't cost much, and I can always un-lace the shoe string if it doesn't solve the problem (or if it makes the problem worse . . . ).

Falls well into the "Worth a Try" category in my opinion!

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There is a thread on Selle Anatomica break in and adjustment, I think in 50+. There are some pics there of how one person laced his. I don't plan to do it that way.

Edit: I just bumped the thread up to the top of 50+.

Last edited by Road Fan; 12-10-09 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 12-10-09, 07:04 AM   #21
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My first attempt at lacing was on this '60s Schwinn Sprint saddle (I believe was made by Ideale but I'm not 100% certain). The sides were completely flared out until it was nearly flat, and the tension adjuster had never been tightened.

I thought about soaking it in water and trying to re-shape it back into a near original profile using rubber bands and straps, but was worried about long term affects of the water.

The challenge I encountered when planning the lacing, was avoiding the clamp and seatpost. Since this is used on a pre-war era Schwinn, the post is the tiny 13/16" variety, and the separate Ideale clamp is rather bulky. Because of this, I decided to lace two sections, one towards the nose and one more to the center rear section. I should have been more careful with my spacing.



The lacing has returned the saddle to a nice shape. I've not ridden it yet as I've been waiting on the new wheels (which I had built) to arrive.



The entire bike looks like this, if you're curious. Now that the snow is here, it might not be ridden until April or May.

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