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Thread: wheels again

  1. #1
    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    wheels again

    I've been looking at wheels again and I was focusing on weight, but I met a rider yesterday and he said the low spoke count will give me a harsher ride. I did know that, but I was wondering if I could get a wheel set lighter than 1800 grams and have a strong wheel with a more compliant ride. I like the ride I get from my Open Pros, but they are kind of heavy. The bike came with Fulcrum 7 wheels and they don't feel to bad, but they are heavy as well. I was looking at the Soul wheels and they didn't look to bad, but I thought they may be to stiff as well. I really don't want to go over $500 and I'm down to 188# now. Sometimes I wonder if I should get a wheel set for a 200 pounder, because I may gain the weight back again. I hope not, but you never know.
    George

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    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    George,

    I bought the Easton Orion II (1477g/pair) which would be in your price range.
    They are very strong (for a light wheel) and do have a few extra spokes over the ultra light wheels. The ride seems fine.
    In your neck of the woods though I would think you might want to consider a more aerodynamic wheel rather than ultra light weight. The Easton's are on my climber, my other bike has Mavic Ksyrium equippe wheels - heavier but a bladed aero-spoke.
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip fool. They do look like good wheels. I would have never found them, so that helped a lot. There's so many wheels out there and I've been looking for a while now. Thanks again.
    George

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    Take a look at either of these:

    http://www.rolwheels.com/rol_volant_wheels.php

    http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/product.php?prod_id=897
    This is a super price on the Fulcrum 5.

    Both great wheels with no rider weight limit issues.

  5. #5
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    The assertion that low-spoke-count wheels give a harsher ride is complete nonsense! Amount of air in the tires or the size of the tire will have far greater effect on "harshness" than number of spokes. I'm sure they've never done double-blind experiments to see if anyone could detect a difference between wheels, and I'd certainly be surprised if anyone were able to differentiate between wheels of different spoke count without seeing what they were riding on.

    L.

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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    The assertion that low-spoke-count wheels give a harsher ride is complete nonsense! Amount of air in the tires or the size of the tire will have far greater effect on "harshness" than number of spokes. I'm sure they've never done double-blind experiments to see if anyone could detect a difference between wheels, and I'd certainly be surprised if anyone were able to differentiate between wheels of different spoke count without seeing what they were riding on.

    L.
    That's good to know. I've been looking at wheels for a couple of weeks now and I like the sounds of the Rol's wheels. That's probably the way I'll go anyhow. I thought I knew a lot of the wheels being made, but I probably just scratched the surface.
    George

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    Erect member since 1953 cccorlew's Avatar
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    Check out Williams. Light, affordable. Great service (which I've never needed, but read about)
    WANTED: Not a darn thing. I've got it all. Life is good.
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    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccorlew View Post
    Check out Williams. Light, affordable. Great service (which I've never needed, but read about)
    I was going to suggest that... perhaps the System 30x wheelset. A lot of people seem to like Williams and they are on my shortlist for next wheel purchase.

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  9. #9
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    The assertion that low-spoke-count wheels give a harsher ride is complete nonsense! Amount of air in the tires or the size of the tire will have far greater effect on "harshness" than number of spokes. I'm sure they've never done double-blind experiments to see if anyone could detect a difference between wheels, and I'd certainly be surprised if anyone were able to differentiate between wheels of different spoke count without seeing what they were riding on.

    L.
    Yeah, tires will make the most difference in comfort. Continental GP4000 have decent puncture resistance, great traction in the corners, and their flexible casing helps to make a smooth ride.

    Aero spokes are mostly marketing. The wide, flat bladed ones are probably less aero than round spokes. Only the expensive cxray type of oval spokes are aero, and it's a minor difference from round spokes.

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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccorlew View Post
    Check out Williams. Light, affordable. Great service (which I've never needed, but read about)
    I was going to check out Williams, but I remember when Hermes bought his, that someone said I would feel every crack in the road with them. The reviews sounded good, but I thought that they may have been for racers only. Thanks for the reply and I'll read some more about them. I like the looks of them.
    George

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    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
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    In addition to the Williams, there is also the possibility of having a conversation with Rob (Psimet) to get wheels built especially for you. He is pretty affordable and well liked by Road Forum guys I am closing a deal with him right now and will post pics and review in a couple weeks.

    http://www.psimet.com/

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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billydonn View Post
    In addition to the Williams, there is also the possibility of having a conversation with Rob (Psimet) to get wheels built especially for you. He is pretty affordable and well liked by Road Forum guys I am closing a deal with him right now and will post pics and review in a couple weeks.

    http://www.psimet.com/

    I thought about him, but I thought he would be overloaded, because he's the only one building the wheels. They say that he doe's build a good wheel. I'll look forward to your review.
    Thanks for the reply.

    It doesn't say on he's site, how much the wheels weigh, did he say anything to you?
    George

  13. #13
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Billydonn, what wheels did you get from Rob?

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    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    I was going to check out Williams, but I remember when Hermes bought his, that someone said I would feel every crack in the road with them. The reviews sounded good, but I thought that they may have been for racers only. Thanks for the reply and I'll read some more about them. I like the looks of them.
    George, that is complete nonsense as well. Wheel manufacturers have four features to market to riders...weight, aerodynamics, durability and stiffness. The easiest metric to understand is weight and we all believe that less is more. Aerodynamics are more difficult to quantify and seem to come with a weight penalty so one has to be able to go fast enough for the aero advantage to trump the weight penalty when climbing. That leaves durability and stiffness. The more durable one makes a wheel it can tend to get a little more stiff. So there is a sweet spot where a wheel can be strong but not too stiff. The other problem is rider weight. If you are over 180 pounds, one has to look carefully at wheels and talk with riders of similar weight and strength as you to see how what they use.

    I purchased Williams System 30 because I wanted a more rugged wheel that had some aero dynamic benefit and was bomb proof. I ride 5 to 6 days per week and do mountain descents and race on Paris Roubaix style roads. I did not want to worry about wheels. The System 30s have been bomb proof and I really punished them in the Madera and Topsport stage races this year on the rough roads. They are in perfectly true. They are not the lightest wheels but I have more fragile race wheels that I use for where weight and aero really matter.

    My Williams give a great ride on my Cervelo R3 with normal tire pressure. IMO, you are not going to notice a lot of difference with a couple of hundred grams of wheel weight. And you will be unhappy if the wheels are not reliable. It will be a pain in the ass. However, the Williams System 30x has a few more spokes and would work well for you. I suggest using the 30x design as a template for whatever wheel you purchase. Make sure you have a strong enough rim and enough spokes for your weight.

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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot Rich. The Williams were one of three, that I had in mind. The other two were Soul and Rol.
    George

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    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    I thought about him, but I thought he would be overloaded, because he's the only one building the wheels. They say that he doe's build a good wheel. I'll look forward to your review.
    Thanks for the reply.

    It doesn't say on he's site, how much the wheels weigh, did he say anything to you?
    I believe the ones I am getting will weigh about 1500-1600 grams... Keep in mind that I weigh 220, ride a 20 lb. bike, and am not fast (yet!), so real light wheels are not a big priority for me. (I would feel pretentious riding CF wheels at my current ability level.) He can build pretty much anything you want though... I described myself and type of riding and just mostly accepted his recommendations. He advised against radial lacing and I accepted that, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
    Billydonn, what wheels did you get from Rob?
    Here's the set Rob is building for me:

    Front=White Ind. H2 F Silver hub laced to a Kinlin XR-300 rim 28f/2X using DT-Comp-Black spokes and DT 12mm-Brass-Silver nipples Rear=White Ind. H3 R Silver hub with Shimano freehub body laced to a Kinlin XR-300 rim 32r/3X using DT-Comp-Black spokes on the Drive Side and laced 3X using DT-Comp-Black spokes on the Non-Drive Side and DT-12mm-Brass-Silver nipples

    I do not expect to get the wheels for 2-3 weeks but will post weights and photos when they do arrive.

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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    They almost sound like the Open Pros I have now. I've got 3x front and rear with brass nipples. They come in at around 1800g, with the Ultegra hubs.
    George

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    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    George,

    I'll say it again - I think the Orion II will work for you - see the description http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/W..._orion_II.html
    Mine have 2 hard seasons on them and they are as true as the day they came out of the box and my weight fluxuates between 170 and 185. I train on that bike 4 days/week from April through Oct. If you are concerned about the load capability call Easton and they will help you, the spec sheet says they work for heavier riders.
    Compared to many other wheels out there I was not able to find a better deal, ~$400, light and a mildly aero rim.
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
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    Climbing Above It All BikeWNC's Avatar
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    I just ordered another set of DuraAce 7850 24CL wheels from the UK for $630 delivered. I know they are slightly over your budget but at this price nothing will touch them. At 1400g they are light, pretty aero for a low profile rim, stiff and strong. I ride them at 185# without any concerns at all. They have a great ride and when adjusted correctly will spin so smooth. This new set is going on my wife's new bike.

  20. #20
    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    They almost sound like the Open Pros I have now. I've got 3x front and rear with brass nipples. They come in at around 1800g, with the Ultegra hubs.
    George,
    I have a set of OP/Ultegra and I expect the Kinlins from Rob to be quite different. Most obviously, the OPs are nowhere near the 30mm deep profile of the Kinlins, which are something like a Velocity Deep V, only lighter in weight. Also the White hubs should be different from Ultegras, especially in sound. I kind of like a clicky rear hub and the Whites are supposed to be a little noisy. Ultegra is quiet. The Dura Ace 7850 hubs sound really great to me too.

    Quote from Psimet website:

    "XR-300 30mm deep. This rim is the workhorse of the line. It is by far my favorite. This rim has been great for all around applications from training to racing or even scores of miles burning up the century circuit.
    I have placed this rim in just about every condition imaginable. I have had success with it under a myriad of riders who vary in weight up to and including 210 lb +. Over that and I tend to steer towards an even stouter rim."
    Last edited by billydonn; 05-21-10 at 11:07 PM. Reason: fix typo

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    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billydonn View Post
    George,
    I have a set of OP/Ultegra and I expect the Kinlins from Rob to be quite different. Most obviously, the OPs are nowhere near the 30mm deep profile of the Kinlins, which are something like a Velocity Deep V, only lighter in weight. Also the White hubs should be different from Ultegras, especially in sound. I kind of like a clicky rear hub and the Whites are supposed to be a little noisy. Ultegra is quiet. The Dura Ace 7850 hubs sound really great to me too.

    Quote from Psimet website:

    "XR-300 30mm deep. This rim is the workhorse of the line. It is by far my favorite. This rim has been great for all around applications from training to racing or even scores of miles burning up the century circuit.
    I have placed this rim in just about every condition imaginable. I have had success with it under a myriad of riders who vary in weight up to and including 210 lb +. Over that and I tend to steer towards an even stouter rim."
    How much did he charge you Billy?
    George

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    Dan J chinarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    How much did he charge you Billy?
    Psimet doesn't want his prices posted online. I don't think he's being secretive, but rather doesn't want to run afoul of forum rules on advertising.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinarider View Post
    Psimet doesn't want his prices posted online. I don't think he's being secretive, but rather doesn't want to run afoul of forum rules on advertising.
    Oops forgot about that, thanks.
    George

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeWNC View Post
    I just ordered another set of DuraAce 7850 24CL wheels from the UK for $630 delivered. I know they are slightly over your budget but at this price nothing will touch them. At 1400g they are light, pretty aero for a low profile rim, stiff and strong. I ride them at 185# without any concerns at all. They have a great ride and when adjusted correctly will spin so smooth. This new set is going on my wife's new bike.
    I have been looking at the DuraAce 7850 24CL wheels, I think that are a deal at $650, where did you get them?

  25. #25
    Climbing Above It All BikeWNC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    I have been looking at the DuraAce 7850 24CL wheels, I think that are a deal at $650, where did you get them?
    ChainReaction in the UK. The final price all depends on the exchange rate your cc uses and any fee it may charge to do the exchange. Typically, I find it is within $10 of the cost posted on the website.

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