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  1. #1
    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    I want a new jersey: "Top Kill."

    "Top Kill" on the back.

    "Junk Shot" on the front.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post
    "Top Kill" on the back.

    "Junk Shot" on the front.
    Good one.
    Sad as the situation is in the gulf. It will affect us all sooner or later.

  3. #3
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I suspect it is in the works and T-shirts abound.

    I have been in the electric power / energy industry for 35 years and I have seen many difficult situations. I recall the scorched earth tactic used by the late Sadaam Hussein when he was driven out of Kuwait blowing up oil wells and setting tens of oil wells on fire. Thankfully, our government did not have to approve the procedures for putting out the fires as they may still be burning today.

    The junk shot / top kill makes technical sense. Ultimately, the pressure from the weight of the column of mud after the pumps are shut off, will have to be greater than or equal to the force of the oil and gas rising. Then cement can be pumped down the hole to seal the well. Using a junk shot to clog or partially clog the leak (oil coming out of the preventer) with debris will allow more pressure to be applied to increase the column of mud makes sense. I sure hope this works. Where is the underwater equal of Red Adair when we need him?

  4. #4
    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    I have been in the electric power / energy industry for 35 years and I have seen many difficult situations.
    I knew you were in engineering from previous posts - now this narrows it down a bit.

    For the past 3 years I have been doing research in communications techniques for off shore oil exploration and production. The US DOE has been sponsoring research in deep water production for some time. 5000' feet down is just the beginning, wait until this happens at 10K' down - that is where this is headed. Trying to work on a well 5000' down is in many ways harder than trying to remotely work on the Moon. When they go to 2 miles down it will be like trying to work on Mars. The positive side is that you don't launch a powerful rocket to get there, the negative side is you can't communicate with remotes without a cable, there is no solar energy and the pressures are orders of magnitude higher. The fact is, we have gotten everything out of this old earth that is easy to get, whether it's oil or minerals, the rest is now buried deep or widely dispersed and the ecological, economic and human costs are going to be much higher. Globally we must change our ways.

    Getting off soap box now...
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
    If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclinfool View Post
    Getting off soap box now...
    I have fought several "kicks" in my life, some severe. I've had pipe blown out of the hole at me. I've seen men covered in oil trying to fight it.

    I knew three men who died in a blowout in South Texas. The eleven men who died in the Gulf are seldom mentioned. They were the ones trying to fight it.

    ........getting off my soapbox now.
    Most economic fallacies derive from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another.....Milton Friedman

  6. #6
    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monoborracho View Post
    I have fought several "kicks" in my life, some severe. I've had pipe blown out of the hole at me. I've seen men covered in oil trying to fight it.

    I knew three men who died in a blowout in South Texas. The eleven men who died in the Gulf are seldom mentioned. They were the ones trying to fight it.

    ........getting off my soapbox now.
    And if you think that's bad - China kills over 6000 coal miners/year!
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
    If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclinfool View Post
    And if you think that's bad - China kills over 6000 coal miners/year!
    You mean they are killed while working in the Chinese coal mining industry, do you not?
    Most economic fallacies derive from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another.....Milton Friedman

  8. #8
    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    Yes indeed - I will not continue with the rest of the story as we are getting too far off topic and this will turn very political very fast. Enough said.
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
    If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclinfool View Post
    . Trying to work on a well 5000' down is in many ways harder than trying to remotely work on the Moon. When they go to 2 miles down it will be like trying to work on Mars. The positive side is that you don't launch a powerful rocket to get there, the negative side is you can't communicate with remotes without a cable, there is no solar energy and the pressures are orders of magnitude higher.
    I spent just enough time around the oil business in Houston in the late 80's to appreciate some of the challenges they are up against. Also, way back when, you may recall the Ixtoc I disaster -- the blowout in the Gulf of Campeche that took Pemex (with the help of the best minds in the world) many months to cap (I think Ixtoc I still ranks as the biggest spill ever, except for what happened in Kuwait). That occurred in much shallower waters, though -- what they are up against now is truly daunting.

    It's depressing to read the background behind the current spill. Though we likely don't know the whole story yet, even BP's report the other day talks about 7 major equipment failures. I also heard an industry blowout expert the other day talk about how tragic it is that the rig itself was sunk after the blowout because the fire boats pumped so much water onto the burning rig (I'm assuming he thinks there was a better way...).

    In any case, a horrible mess. As I write this the news is saying the "top kill" isn't working and they are on to plan "C," or is it plan "D" by now...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
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    A couple of weeks ago I thought this was a disaster. Now it appears to be catastrophic. The environmental damage will be unprecedented, and the economic damage could last for years. It's amazing that a single well could do this.

    On the other hand, a Junk Shot jersey might be kinda cool.

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