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Thread: AWD Bikes

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    Senior Member kr32's Avatar
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    AWD Bikes

    Has anyone heard of this before.All Wheel Drive on bikes?

    I saw one on sale on CL tonight and looked up the website.

    http://christinibicycles.com/bikes-fullsus.php

    Seems to me they would weigh a lot and not real sure it would help all that much. I dunno.

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    Senior Member Terex's Avatar
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    Seems to me they would weigh a lot and not real sure it would help all that much. I dunno.[/QUOTE]

    You've got it.

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    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    I've given some thought to AWD bikes and have come to the conclusion that they would only be useful in winter, on snow-covered roads. The best way, IMHO, to implement AWD is to replace the front wheel with one of those electric hubs so that it's basically a front-wheel-drive e-bike but with rear wheel driven by the cranks. I have never tried this, but I think it might provide some advantage in slippery conditions.

    Luis

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    Senior Member Avanti73's Avatar
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    pretty slick idea, I don't know that it would help much though. I'd like to demo one.

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    i saw a setup like this in the mid 90s or so. it was weird seeing the front wheel turn with the cranks.

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    Senior Member kr32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    but I think it might provide some advantage in slippery conditions.

    Luis
    When I saw this my first thought was on dry single track being a mtb and all. I now could see it working in mud though. Snow too but who rides in the snow?

    Still heavy not to mention all the extra stuff that could break.

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    Unicycle

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    Quote Originally Posted by kr32 View Post
    When I saw this my first thought was on dry single track being a mtb and all. I now could see it working in mud though. Snow too but who rides in the snow?

    Still heavy not to mention all the extra stuff that could break.
    After last winter, I'm still getting used to NOT riding in snow.
    The higher CG means that bikes have a LOT more for and aft weight transfer than cars do. For example, when I'm going up the steep hill to my house, a little tug on the handlebars is enough to lift the front wheel. If I have 95% of my weight on the back wheel, why do I need AWD?

    It seems the main thing that front wheel drive would do in snow is to cause the front wheel to skid, dumping the bike. Looks like those big, exposed gears would get lots of snow, ice, and mud in them, too.

    Paul

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    Senior Member jdon's Avatar
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    I would like to try one as well. It may work very well for those short muddy 30% climbs in my area.

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    You would lose more power to friction in the bevel gears, than you would gain in traction transfer to the tront wheel. You could gain more traction by fitting a banana seat, so you could slide back over the rear wheel.

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    Senior Member jdon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewP View Post
    You would lose more power to friction in the bevel gears, than you would gain in traction transfer to the tront wheel. You could gain more traction by fitting a banana seat, so you could slide back over the rear wheel.
    I don't have the engineering on that so can't speak to the friction, but climbing, the weight distribution is so far forward that rear wheel drive can be useless. On steep descents, it is common to be so far aft on the bike, a banana seat would have to be abot 3 ft long.

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    Studded tires on both wheels . I have a 12 year old pair of Nokian Mount and Ground Winter tires .

    But where I am it only does the Black Ice on the roads every once in a while , so when they are useful I put them on

    have wheels with drum brakes , which is a combo near perfect. grabby brakes is not what you want then,

    and drum brakes are smooth and weather shielded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewP View Post
    Unicycle
    well played

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    Senior Member kr32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewP View Post
    Unicycle
    uno fixie

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    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    A solution in search of a problem. The big problem with bicycles is it's wimpy motor. The 2 wheel drive bicycle uses power robbing components to solve a traction problem that seldom arises.

    There was a fellow in the St Louis area producing 2 wheel drive bicycles around 15 years ago. His used a pair of bevel gearsets and a flexible shaft to connect the front and rear hubs. Ultimately some fellow bought up his stock and tried to find a market for them. I owned a shop at that time and told him I wasn't interested so he waited until I was out to drop off a boxed bike. After multiple failed attempts to contact him I eventually dumpstered the bicycle. About 6 months later he came in to ask about it. He got real mad. That's when I found out he was an attorney. I must have been on pretty sound ground legally because I never heard from him again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    A solution in search of a problem. The big problem with bicycles is it's wimpy motor. The 2 wheel drive bicycle uses power robbing components to solve a traction problem that seldom arises.

    There was a fellow in the St Louis area producing 2 wheel drive bicycles around 15 years ago. His used a pair of bevel gearsets and a flexible shaft to connect the front and rear hubs. Ultimately some fellow bought up his stock and tried to find a market for them. I owned a shop at that time and told him I wasn't interested so he waited until I was out to drop off a boxed bike. After multiple failed attempts to contact him I eventually dumpstered the bicycle. About 6 months later he came in to ask about it. He got real mad. That's when I found out he was an attorney. I must have been on pretty sound ground legally because I never heard from him again.
    i wonder if the bike i saw was his creation. i was about 10 years old and went to a bicycle trade show with my dad. i believe it was in chicago.

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    Pat
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    Hmmm..... traction.

    I don't see how they would be practical. They would have to be considerably more mechanically complex and even worse heavier.

    The other thing is this a solution to a non problem? Think about it. Bicycles have large wheels. Generally, large wheels offer good traction. Have you ever even heard of an all wheel drive tractor? Tractors have such big honking drive wheels that they don't need all wheel drive and tractors do pretty well in rough terrain and muddy fields.

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    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    A solution in search of a problem. The big problem with bicycles is it's wimpy motor. The 2 wheel drive bicycle uses power robbing components to solve a traction problem that seldom arises.

    There was a fellow in the St Louis area producing 2 wheel drive bicycles around 15 years ago. His used a pair of bevel gearsets and a flexible shaft to connect the front and rear hubs. Ultimately some fellow bought up his stock and tried to find a market for them. I owned a shop at that time and told him I wasn't interested so he waited until I was out to drop off a boxed bike. After multiple failed attempts to contact him I eventually dumpstered the bicycle. About 6 months later he came in to ask about it. He got real mad. That's when I found out he was an attorney. I must have been on pretty sound ground legally because I never heard from him again.
    I wonder how he would have responded if you also would have billed him for the space his bike occupied in the dumpster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Hmmm..... traction.

    I don't see how they would be practical. They would have to be considerably more mechanically complex and even worse heavier.

    The other thing is this a solution to a non problem? Think about it. Bicycles have large wheels. Generally, large wheels offer good traction. Have you ever even heard of an all wheel drive tractor? Tractors have such big honking drive wheels that they don't need all wheel drive and tractors do pretty well in rough terrain and muddy fields.
    you are kidding right?

    people were installing "front wheel assist" systems in tractors in the 50s, and manufactures started in the 60s:


    in the 80s it became popular.

    in the 90s it became the "norm" for large tractors

    now even small tractors feature "front wheel assist"

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    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    You call those little toys tractors? *This* was a tractor...




  21. #21
    xtrajack xtrajack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    I've given some thought to AWD bikes and have come to the conclusion that they would only be useful in winter, on snow-covered roads. The best way, IMHO, to implement AWD is to replace the front wheel with one of those electric hubs so that it's basically a front-wheel-drive e-bike but with rear wheel driven by the cranks. I have never tried this, but I think it might provide some advantage in slippery conditions.

    Luis
    What I did. I am happy with the results. It kept me from going down Wednesday night on my way to work.

    I was making a hard left on the dirt trail, going too fast, front wheel started to wash out, hit the throttle, it pulled through, no harm, no foul.
    2008 Kona Fire Mountain/Xtracycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Hmmm..... traction.

    Have you ever even heard of an all wheel drive tractor? Tractors have such big honking drive wheels that they don't need all wheel drive and tractors do pretty well in rough terrain and muddy fields.
    These days a lot of them are. Or else they have tracks.
    We have met the enemy and they is us.

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  23. #23
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    AWD on a bike- Work this one out
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Senior Member jdon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Hmmm..... traction.

    I don't see how they would be practical. They would have to be considerably more mechanically complex and even worse heavier.

    The other thing is this a solution to a non problem? Think about it. Bicycles have large wheels. Generally, large wheels offer good traction. Have you ever even heard of an all wheel drive tractor? Tractors have such big honking drive wheels that they don't need all wheel drive and tractors do pretty well in rough terrain and muddy fields.
    I have seen an awful lot of them stuck in mud over the years as well. Normally when weight distribution is other than ideal. 4X4 was invented for a reason.

    I am not saying this is a great idea for bikes, but I am always happy to see people trying to build a better wheel.

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    Senior Member kr32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbbpll View Post
    All Wheel Drive versus All Wheel All Extremities Drive

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