Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Illinois (near St. Louis)
    My Bikes
    Specialized Expedition Sport, Surly LHT
    Posts
    831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Attempt to ban bikes from St Charles Mo area roads

    Need support from those of you in the St Charles county (Mo) area. Rest of the country, take note. First Colorado, now Missouri...
    http://stlbiking.com/forum/index.php...43#entry132243
    DP
    04 Specialized Expedition Sport
    08 Surly LHT

  2. #2
    Peddler Seamless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Road Warrior 800 & H400
    Posts
    337
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Actually, third: an Iowa county preceded Colorado, claiming liability insurance concerns.
    `,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,
    2005 Cannondale Road Warrior 800

  3. #3
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    6,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Iowa county banned organized events. Individual cyclists were not prohibited from riding on the roads.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  4. #4
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,836
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I suppose that it's cheaper to keep people from using the roads than it is to make the roads safe.

    I drive a school bus on all of the roads that are involved in the proposed ban. DD in particular scares me because it's fairly high speed traffic, there is no shoulder at all and significant drop offs over much of it's length. There is a project on the books to install shoulders on the roads in question but they are only planning to widen them by a couple of feet.

    Frankly, I question the purpose of the proposed ban. I'm thinking it's real motivation is to remove obstacles to faster auto traffic. There are cars going off the road in these areas all of the time. If safety were the prime consideration I would think that imposing a lower speed limit would make more sense.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,836
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamless View Post
    Actually, third: an Iowa county preceded Colorado, claiming liability insurance concerns.
    There's others. St Claire County in Illinois has banned group bicycle rides on the Ridge road between Columbia and Valmeier (not particularly heavily traveled) for years.
    Last edited by Retro Grouch; 07-12-10 at 12:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Life is good RonH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Between Crystal River and Hernando, Florida, 6 miles west of the Withlacoochee Trail
    My Bikes
    I've had several since 1999 but have settled on my beloved 2001 Litespeed Tuscany and my latest, a 2013 Cannondale CAAD 10.
    Posts
    13,718
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Did you post this in the Mountain-Plains Regional subforum? A lot of under 50 riders will read it there.
    My bikes: 2001 Litespeed Tuscany---
    2013 Cannondale CAAD 10 2 "Racing Edition"--The bike shop owner said it's toast after the car-bike accident. R.I.P.
    * * 2014 or 2015 CAAD 10 3 coming soon. Decision time. * *

    Life is like a 10-speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use. ~ Charles Schultz

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    S.E. Iowa
    My Bikes
    all diamond frames
    Posts
    1,165
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
    The Iowa county banned organized events. Individual cyclists were not prohibited from riding on the roads.
    This was due to a death on Ragbrai, and the ensuing litigation.

  8. #8
    XR2
    XR2 is offline
    Senior Member XR2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    the foothills
    My Bikes
    88 Bridgestone T700
    Posts
    938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In these times where "green" is a frequently used buzzword how could they attempt this? I am truly at a loss for words.............................
    I owe-therefore I am.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Illinois (near St. Louis)
    My Bikes
    Specialized Expedition Sport, Surly LHT
    Posts
    831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post

    snip...

    Frankly, I question the purpose of the proposed ban. I'm thinking it's real motivation is to remove obstacles to faster auto traffic. There are cars going off the road in these areas all of the time. If safety were the prime consideration I would think that imposing a lower speed limit would make more sense.
    Bingo. If the purpose was safety, then it would include pedestrians and farm implements- all slow moving traffic. I applaud the SOS group for getting shoulders approved, but the interim solution is NOT banning cyclists, it's reducing the speed limit in areas of reduced visibility or passing distance.
    DP
    04 Specialized Expedition Sport
    08 Surly LHT

  10. #10
    Senior Member Monkey Face's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chester, England
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Infinito, Wilier Mortirolo Veloce
    Posts
    533
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If the purpose was safety, they should ban cars. After all, how many cycle fatalities didn't involve a car?

  11. #11
    Senior Member trackhub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    In a state of 5th Dimension, where size has no meaning.
    My Bikes
    Gunnar Street Dog
    Posts
    1,909
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Massachusetts doesn't do a heck of a lot right, but they got the bike laws right. (My opinion. Your mileage may vary.) The law clear states that bicycles may use all public ways, except for divided express highways that have been posted by the department of public works.

    A few years back, some whiners in la-de-da Concord wanted bikes banned from certain roads. Apparently, they didn't like having to slow down in their over-priced SUV's. (intentional dig there) They hit a dead end when they were told what the law is. Bear in mind, Concord has always been a very popular place for cyclists, with its decent roads, New England postcard scenery, and lack of beer joints and shopping malls. But, the attitude toward cyclists started changing, I'd say about ten years ago. Using the political power that the affluent can buy, they kept the minuteman bikeway from being extended past Bedford to Concord, which was the original plan.

    Sorry, didn't mean to get off on a rant there. Carry on. Feel sorry for cyclists in MO. They are in for what will probably be a tough fight.
    "The People will believe what the Media tells them they believe". George Orwell.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,441
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think St. Charles may run into the problem that road usage by cyclists is specifically allowed in the state traffic code. They just ran another segment of local interest; cyclists and motorists grousing at each other over usage in the city's Forest Park. One cyclist has taken to wearing a video camera to document "close encounters".
    I work at nearby Washington University, and the main drag going East-West is very heavily used by cyclists. I see an awful lot of bad behavior....Many well-equipped and high-end riders pay no attention whatever to traffic controls.
    I almost center-punched some fellow last week in my police car when I exited from a side street into the path of a rider who was merrily blowing the red light....

    We've had several rather nasty accidents involving cyclists in the area; about equally divided between being the fault of the car driver and the fault of the cyclist.

  13. #13
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
    I think St. Charles may run into the problem that road usage by cyclists is specifically allowed in the state traffic code. They just ran another segment of local interest; cyclists and motorists grousing at each other over usage in the city's Forest Park. One cyclist has taken to wearing a video camera to document "close encounters".
    I work at nearby Washington University, and the main drag going East-West is very heavily used by cyclists. I see an awful lot of bad behavior....Many well-equipped and high-end riders pay no attention whatever to traffic controls.
    I almost center-punched some fellow last week in my police car when I exited from a side street into the path of a rider who was merrily blowing the red light....

    We've had several rather nasty accidents involving cyclists in the area; about equally divided between being the fault of the car driver and the fault of the cyclist.
    Still doesn't Colorado law allow Cycling and yet Black Hawk banned bicycles in their city? I know there are supposed to be several legal challenges but as for now Black Hawk streets are cycle free.

    And in another forum there is some talk about some cities closing roads to cars so bicycles can have total access. If they can ban cars from an established roadway can the not ban bicycles?
    Last edited by Robert Foster; 07-15-10 at 07:14 PM.

  14. #14
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,420
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,836
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Another St Charles County commissioner wants to expand the proposed ban to include highways B,C,H & V in the northeastern part of the county. The roads in that part of the county are straight, low traffic, table-top flat and are much more heavily used by bicyclists. It's also the location of the "Monday Night Bike Ride" which has been featured in Bicycling Magazine and occasionally has been part of the RAAM route.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, Calif.
    Posts
    4,824
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    Still doesn't Colorado law allow Cycling and yet Black Hawk banned bicycles in their city? I know there are supposed to be several legal challenges but as for now Black Hawk streets are cycle free.

    And in another forum there is some talk about some cities closing roads to cars so bicycles can have total access. If they can ban cars from an established roadway can the not ban bicycles?
    Depends on the details of the state constitution and statutes. E.g. in California the state vehicle code has a section with a long list of things that 'local authorities' can regulate. If it's not on that list then a city or county can't legally enforce any local regulation. Use of bicycles on sidewalks is on the list and can be regulated by each municipality as they see fit, but bicycling on public roads is not. Don't know what the rules are in Missouri, but if they're similar to California (and apparently Mass.) then any ban on local public streets would be unenforceable.

  17. #17
    Dirt Bomb sknhgy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,585
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm just telling you what I've heard, so don't anyone get all pissy with me.

    According to the Channel 4 newscast, the number one complaint of St. Charles residents is bicycle riders who take up excessive road space. In other words, many people in St. Charles think that bike riders are road hogs. During the newscast they showed a reporter standing along Hwy 94, in a section that had a very wide shoulder. According to the report, drivers often come up on groups of cyclists who take up space in the lanes of the highways. To me, the report was implying that bike riders could ride on the shoulders of these roads, but they choose not to.
    That's how the newscast came off to me.

  18. #18
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Depends on the details of the state constitution and statutes. E.g. in California the state vehicle code has a section with a long list of things that 'local authorities' can regulate. If it's not on that list then a city or county can't legally enforce any local regulation. Use of bicycles on sidewalks is on the list and can be regulated by each municipality as they see fit, but bicycling on public roads is not. Don't know what the rules are in Missouri, but if they're similar to California (and apparently Mass.) then any ban on local public streets would be unenforceable.
    Then take it they can't close a road to car traffic simply to allow bicycles access? Because the VC code does say what vehicles can travel on what public streets. Low speed vehicles are restricted as are trucks in some areas. Bicycles are normally restricted on freeways though there seems to be some exceptions on some freeways.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,836
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
    According to the Channel 4 newscast, the number one complaint of St. Charles residents is bicycle riders who take up excessive road space.
    I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.

  20. #20
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    14,954
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.
    It should be simple enough to enforce traffic obstruction laws without a total (and presumably unconstitutional) ban. Alternatively, ban just the large group rides that are triggering the complaints. If a shoulder is wide, smooth, and clean, I'll willingly use it.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  21. #21
    Dirt Bomb sknhgy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,585
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.
    Why Monday nights?

  22. #22
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,836
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
    Why Monday nights?
    It's the Monday Night Ride out of Mueller Park. Some Mondays (in addition to a number of smaller, slower groups) will attract a peloton of 50 or 60 riders. There aren't any rules and some riders have been known to cross the center line and do all manner of other things that I don't approve of. Fortunately, my wimpyness prohibits me from riding with that bunch so it's not a big problem for me. If you're not used to riding in close quarters, slower riders can become unnerved when they brush your elbows as they swoop past with no warning.

  23. #23
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,420
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    Alternatively, ban just the large group rides that are triggering the complaints.
    As long as they are willing to ban the motorist that slow cyclist during the motorist large group drives, called rush hour.

  24. #24
    Banned. The Weak Link's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Post-partisan Paradise
    My Bikes
    GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
    Posts
    4,936
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If bikes are outlawed, only outlaws will have bikes.

    Think about it.

  25. #25
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Milledgeville, Georgia
    My Bikes
    2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2014 Specialized Crux EVO Carbon Disc, 2012 Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, 2011 Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert Compact, 2009 Salsa Casseroll, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB
    Posts
    12,745
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Someone should introduce a bill to ban cars and trucks due to the dangers they pose to cyclists, pedestrians and their drivers and passengers.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •