Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-11-10, 02:23 PM   #1
Dellphinus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Illinois (near St. Louis)
Bikes: Specialized Expedition Sport, Surly LHT
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Attempt to ban bikes from St Charles Mo area roads

Need support from those of you in the St Charles county (Mo) area. Rest of the country, take note. First Colorado, now Missouri...
http://stlbiking.com/forum/index.php...43#entry132243
Dellphinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-10, 07:11 PM   #2
Seamless
Peddler
 
Seamless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes: Cannondale Road Warrior 800 & H400
Posts: 337
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually, third: an Iowa county preceded Colorado, claiming liability insurance concerns.
Seamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-10, 07:56 PM   #3
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
The Iowa county banned organized events. Individual cyclists were not prohibited from riding on the roads.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-10, 06:24 AM   #4
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,754
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
I suppose that it's cheaper to keep people from using the roads than it is to make the roads safe.

I drive a school bus on all of the roads that are involved in the proposed ban. DD in particular scares me because it's fairly high speed traffic, there is no shoulder at all and significant drop offs over much of it's length. There is a project on the books to install shoulders on the roads in question but they are only planning to widen them by a couple of feet.

Frankly, I question the purpose of the proposed ban. I'm thinking it's real motivation is to remove obstacles to faster auto traffic. There are cars going off the road in these areas all of the time. If safety were the prime consideration I would think that imposing a lower speed limit would make more sense.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-10, 06:29 AM   #5
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,754
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamless View Post
Actually, third: an Iowa county preceded Colorado, claiming liability insurance concerns.
There's others. St Claire County in Illinois has banned group bicycle rides on the Ridge road between Columbia and Valmeier (not particularly heavily traveled) for years.

Last edited by Retro Grouch; 07-12-10 at 12:19 PM.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-10, 06:50 AM   #6
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Bikes: 2001 Litespeed Tuscany and 2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod
Posts: 16,476
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Did you post this in the Mountain-Plains Regional subforum? A lot of under 50 riders will read it there.
__________________


The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. - Psalm 103:8
RonH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-10, 11:46 AM   #7
crazyb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hills of Iowa
Bikes: all diamond frames
Posts: 1,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
The Iowa county banned organized events. Individual cyclists were not prohibited from riding on the roads.
This was due to a death on Ragbrai, and the ensuing litigation.
crazyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-10, 04:05 PM   #8
XR2
Senior Member
 
XR2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Back in the hills again
Bikes: 88 Bridgestone T700
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In these times where "green" is a frequently used buzzword how could they attempt this? I am truly at a loss for words.............................
XR2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-10, 04:23 PM   #9
Dellphinus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Illinois (near St. Louis)
Bikes: Specialized Expedition Sport, Surly LHT
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post

snip...

Frankly, I question the purpose of the proposed ban. I'm thinking it's real motivation is to remove obstacles to faster auto traffic. There are cars going off the road in these areas all of the time. If safety were the prime consideration I would think that imposing a lower speed limit would make more sense.
Bingo. If the purpose was safety, then it would include pedestrians and farm implements- all slow moving traffic. I applaud the SOS group for getting shoulders approved, but the interim solution is NOT banning cyclists, it's reducing the speed limit in areas of reduced visibility or passing distance.
Dellphinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-10, 05:00 AM   #10
Monkey Face
Senior Member
 
Monkey Face's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cheltenham, England
Bikes: Bianchi Intenso Veloce
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
If the purpose was safety, they should ban cars. After all, how many cycle fatalities didn't involve a car?
Monkey Face is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-10, 05:46 PM   #11
trackhub
Senior Member
 
trackhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Watching all of you on O.B.I.T.
Bikes: Gunnar Street Dog
Posts: 2,039
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Massachusetts doesn't do a heck of a lot right, but they got the bike laws right. (My opinion. Your mileage may vary.) The law clear states that bicycles may use all public ways, except for divided express highways that have been posted by the department of public works.

A few years back, some whiners in la-de-da Concord wanted bikes banned from certain roads. Apparently, they didn't like having to slow down in their over-priced SUV's. (intentional dig there) They hit a dead end when they were told what the law is. Bear in mind, Concord has always been a very popular place for cyclists, with its decent roads, New England postcard scenery, and lack of beer joints and shopping malls. But, the attitude toward cyclists started changing, I'd say about ten years ago. Using the political power that the affluent can buy, they kept the minuteman bikeway from being extended past Bedford to Concord, which was the original plan.

Sorry, didn't mean to get off on a rant there. Carry on. Feel sorry for cyclists in MO. They are in for what will probably be a tough fight.
trackhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-10, 06:42 PM   #12
Bikewer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think St. Charles may run into the problem that road usage by cyclists is specifically allowed in the state traffic code. They just ran another segment of local interest; cyclists and motorists grousing at each other over usage in the city's Forest Park. One cyclist has taken to wearing a video camera to document "close encounters".
I work at nearby Washington University, and the main drag going East-West is very heavily used by cyclists. I see an awful lot of bad behavior....Many well-equipped and high-end riders pay no attention whatever to traffic controls.
I almost center-punched some fellow last week in my police car when I exited from a side street into the path of a rider who was merrily blowing the red light....

We've had several rather nasty accidents involving cyclists in the area; about equally divided between being the fault of the car driver and the fault of the cyclist.
Bikewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-10, 07:11 PM   #13
Robert Foster
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southern california
Bikes: Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
Posts: 3,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I think St. Charles may run into the problem that road usage by cyclists is specifically allowed in the state traffic code. They just ran another segment of local interest; cyclists and motorists grousing at each other over usage in the city's Forest Park. One cyclist has taken to wearing a video camera to document "close encounters".
I work at nearby Washington University, and the main drag going East-West is very heavily used by cyclists. I see an awful lot of bad behavior....Many well-equipped and high-end riders pay no attention whatever to traffic controls.
I almost center-punched some fellow last week in my police car when I exited from a side street into the path of a rider who was merrily blowing the red light....

We've had several rather nasty accidents involving cyclists in the area; about equally divided between being the fault of the car driver and the fault of the cyclist.
Still doesn't Colorado law allow Cycling and yet Black Hawk banned bicycles in their city? I know there are supposed to be several legal challenges but as for now Black Hawk streets are cycle free.

And in another forum there is some talk about some cities closing roads to cars so bicycles can have total access. If they can ban cars from an established roadway can the not ban bicycles?

Last edited by Robert Foster; 07-15-10 at 07:14 PM.
Robert Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-10, 07:15 PM   #14
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,060
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/s...7a4a78c22.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/s...7a4a78c22.html
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-10, 11:25 AM   #15
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,754
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Another St Charles County commissioner wants to expand the proposed ban to include highways B,C,H & V in the northeastern part of the county. The roads in that part of the county are straight, low traffic, table-top flat and are much more heavily used by bicyclists. It's also the location of the "Monday Night Bike Ride" which has been featured in Bicycling Magazine and occasionally has been part of the RAAM route.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-10, 11:49 AM   #16
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
Still doesn't Colorado law allow Cycling and yet Black Hawk banned bicycles in their city? I know there are supposed to be several legal challenges but as for now Black Hawk streets are cycle free.

And in another forum there is some talk about some cities closing roads to cars so bicycles can have total access. If they can ban cars from an established roadway can the not ban bicycles?
Depends on the details of the state constitution and statutes. E.g. in California the state vehicle code has a section with a long list of things that 'local authorities' can regulate. If it's not on that list then a city or county can't legally enforce any local regulation. Use of bicycles on sidewalks is on the list and can be regulated by each municipality as they see fit, but bicycling on public roads is not. Don't know what the rules are in Missouri, but if they're similar to California (and apparently Mass.) then any ban on local public streets would be unenforceable.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-10, 01:30 PM   #17
sknhgy 
Dirt Bomb
 
sknhgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Bikes:
Posts: 2,648
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
I'm just telling you what I've heard, so don't anyone get all pissy with me.

According to the Channel 4 newscast, the number one complaint of St. Charles residents is bicycle riders who take up excessive road space. In other words, many people in St. Charles think that bike riders are road hogs. During the newscast they showed a reporter standing along Hwy 94, in a section that had a very wide shoulder. According to the report, drivers often come up on groups of cyclists who take up space in the lanes of the highways. To me, the report was implying that bike riders could ride on the shoulders of these roads, but they choose not to.
That's how the newscast came off to me.
sknhgy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-10, 09:39 PM   #18
Robert Foster
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southern california
Bikes: Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
Posts: 3,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Depends on the details of the state constitution and statutes. E.g. in California the state vehicle code has a section with a long list of things that 'local authorities' can regulate. If it's not on that list then a city or county can't legally enforce any local regulation. Use of bicycles on sidewalks is on the list and can be regulated by each municipality as they see fit, but bicycling on public roads is not. Don't know what the rules are in Missouri, but if they're similar to California (and apparently Mass.) then any ban on local public streets would be unenforceable.
Then take it they can't close a road to car traffic simply to allow bicycles access? Because the VC code does say what vehicles can travel on what public streets. Low speed vehicles are restricted as are trucks in some areas. Bicycles are normally restricted on freeways though there seems to be some exceptions on some freeways.
Robert Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-10, 05:48 AM   #19
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,754
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
According to the Channel 4 newscast, the number one complaint of St. Charles residents is bicycle riders who take up excessive road space.
I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-10, 08:36 AM   #20
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
Posts: 17,169
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.
It should be simple enough to enforce traffic obstruction laws without a total (and presumably unconstitutional) ban. Alternatively, ban just the large group rides that are triggering the complaints. If a shoulder is wide, smooth, and clean, I'll willingly use it.
__________________
"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 06:58 PM   #21
sknhgy 
Dirt Bomb
 
sknhgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Bikes:
Posts: 2,648
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I'm thinking that the majority of bicyclists in the St Charles area will admit that really happens. It's definitely true on Monday nights.
Why Monday nights?
sknhgy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-10, 08:33 PM   #22
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,754
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
Why Monday nights?
It's the Monday Night Ride out of Mueller Park. Some Mondays (in addition to a number of smaller, slower groups) will attract a peloton of 50 or 60 riders. There aren't any rules and some riders have been known to cross the center line and do all manner of other things that I don't approve of. Fortunately, my wimpyness prohibits me from riding with that bunch so it's not a big problem for me. If you're not used to riding in close quarters, slower riders can become unnerved when they brush your elbows as they swoop past with no warning.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-10, 05:04 PM   #23
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,060
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by John E View Post
Alternatively, ban just the large group rides that are triggering the complaints.
As long as they are willing to ban the motorist that slow cyclist during the motorist large group drives, called rush hour.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-10, 06:47 PM   #24
The Weak Link
Banned.
 
The Weak Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Post-partisan Paradise
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Posts: 4,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If bikes are outlawed, only outlaws will have bikes.

Think about it.
The Weak Link is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-10, 07:06 PM   #25
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Someone should introduce a bill to ban cars and trucks due to the dangers they pose to cyclists, pedestrians and their drivers and passengers.
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:21 PM.