Kurt Erlenbach

Alcohol is an odd thing. Having nothing to do with it is good. Drinking lightly is better for you. Drinking a lot is very bad for you. The research shows light to moderate drinking helps your heart without causing liver damage or other damage. And light to moderate drinking causes no or almost no intoxication. Few folks drink so as not to get at least a bit of a buzz, so too many folks don't stop at moderate.

I drink a few glasses of red wine a week becuase I believe the research. More than a glass or two results in a headache in the morning and an uncomfortable ride.

ahsposo 

The abuse of alcohol is truly one of the worst things we humans do to ourselves and each other.

The use of alcohol can break down social and cultural barriers that lead to a better understanding of each other.

I personally have seen both ends of this.

DX-MAN

Never heard that -- not the point.

One drink a day (or, more moderately, according to some studies, 3-4 a week) is NOT ABUSE, ok? It isn't the source of alcoholism or any of the other debilitation cause by abuse.

Rationalization? I will rationalize my conduct as I ride past your funeral procession.

xizangstan

I agree - the red wine is the best choice. My own regular is one or perhaps two vodka tonics each evening around dinnertime.

While I have friends who are alcoholics and one went thru AA to get and stay on the wagon, some people are quite lucky in that we don't have to keep drinking beyond one or perhaps two.

After they wheeled me out of the operating room, my cardiologist asked me if I drank. I said, "Yes - one or two a day". He said "Good. If you didn't I was going to recommend it". One stent in my heart is all I want, thank you very much!

DX-MAN

OK, now I'm ready to make my own point....

If you would average it out, I'm at about 1-2 a week; some months, I go without entirely. Others, I lightly indulge, as finances allow.

2 beers in 24 hours is a binge for me. I have set that as a personal standard, and held it for over a decade.

For example, right now, I have 2 left in a 12-pack that I bought Aug. 19th. One will go away tonight, the other tomorrow night. Another 12-pack may be purchased the day after, or this weekend.......

It's never about the 'buzz', but about the savory experience; if non-alcoholic beer was as flavorful as, say, Sam Adams, I'd drink that. But every non-alc beer I've ever tasted was pretty chemically enhanced.

The Weak Link

Pondering your comment.

I suspect no one here abuses alcohol, although I've accused a couple of being dry drunks.

I also don't think anyone here makes light of alcoholism. I've not noted it.

I have family that drinks quite a bit. My Ukrainian daughter feels very uncomfortable around them. They've explained that one can drink but not abuse the stuff, and not get inebriated. I've never seen them get tipsy, either, although one of them becomes annoyingly garrulous.

My daughter doesn't really buy it. It was not her experience in a country that replaced Marxism with crony Socialism.

As I mention, I don't drink much, but not for any moral reason. It gives me headaches.

But I'm not ready to advocate the return to Prohibition either.

ahsposo 

Prohibiting behavior that that can lead to personal excess that others can personally control will never work.

Legalize and tax it.

Look what idiots in NY are paying for that evil sotweed.

BluesDawg

My version of this is "All things in moderation...including wretched excess".

In my younger days, I was much more committed to the wretched excess part of that than the moderation part in many things including alcohol. Now, moderation seems to come more naturally. I keep good beer in the fridge and good whiskey in the cabinet. I'll have a beer or two many days, none about as often, a couple or three once in a while and very rarely, in the right situation with some good friends like at a blues festival or on BRAG, I'll have more than a few. Same pattern but much less often with the whiskey.


I understand fully why some people have no tolerance for drinkers. I have seen it ruin lives. I was once headed towards it ruining mine. I'm surprised that I didn't have to stop drinking completely. But somewhere along the way, the tendency to abuse just went away. I'm glad that happened, because I really like beer.

Louis

Somewhere WC Fields is smiling.

Allegheny Jet

Except for the whiskey we have a much in common, even the blues.

LAriverRat

The Scots have a saying "Whiskey is the water of life". After going there for Golf i can see what they meant. So every once in a while i must taste the waters to keep all the parts working smoothly. Wine with dinner, a beer now and then makes for a relaxed and enjoyable existence. When i raise a glass i recall my trip, some of the shots that were true, and the birdie on the 17th at Prestwick ( if you know this hole you know what an achievement that was). In fact i can smell the heather, feel the wind, as i now lift a glass of "Water" from that country.

Metric Man

20 years of absolute alcoholism was enough for me...moderation means I've drunken everything...sober for the last 19 years and I think I'll keep it that way.

BTW, there have been numerous studies of Mormon folks that seems to indicate they live much longer on average.

lhbernhardt

Back to the old problem whenever anyone does a correlational study. Correlation or causation? Do people who drink in moderation live longer because they drink in moderation? Or do they live longer because they tend to do everything else in moderation, and moderate drinking is only one manifestation of this behavior?

I sympathize with those with "addictive" personalities who eschew drinking; everybody is different, it's not a good idea to generalize. But having said that, my own experiences have taught me that if you are going to drink, you should only drink good stuff! Forget the rotgut, drink premium beers, from the tap if possible. Microbrews with no additives are best, Budweiser and its ilk are not beer!Drink the best wine you can afford, but if you can't taste the difference between two wines, drink the cheaper of the two. And it's not worth drinking spirits that haven't been aged at least ten years; that seems to be the minimum length of time before they smooth out. The idea is to increase your quality of life by enjoying the gustatory delights of good liquor; it is not to miss out on life by going numb from too much drinking.

But the worst thing you can do is to drink before riding. Burning alcohol really hurts! It's such an inefficient fuel source.

Luis

ahsposo 

Mike Luckovich of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution...

The Weak Link

For the good......of the children.......

MinnMan

Whoa, do we have some issues here? Equating all use of alcohol with alcohol abuse and alcoholism has no basis in medical fact. You object to my one sixpack/week habit on the basis of the (very real and sad) problems that others have and have had? The point of the OP was about moderate drinking, not heavy drinking. If you can't see the distinction, then I feel sorry for you. THe world is not black and white- it's not even many shades of gray, it's full color. The fact that alcohol causes many problems does not mean that all alcohol use is bad or that society would be better off without it entirely.

over1

No one disagrees with the well-known fact you don't need to be a blitzed/chronic abuser to catch enough of a buzz to temporarily impair judgment, including the user's decision to drive while under the influence, or even the decision to continue to drink, further impairing judgment.
An attempt to dismiss opposing comments to you view as mere "issues"?
Not even considering the catalog of overall adverse, long-term personal health effects to the user, here's an "issue": just try to tell the thousands violently forced into cemeteries and permanently disabled every year, and their grieving families, they shouldn't have "issues" with the recreational-drinking, merely-buzzed drivers that put them there with a bottle of a chosen "adult" beverage. Oh, that's right, they're DEAD, so it's okay to complacently ignore their ruthlessly-imposed silence?
Whatever; I should lighten up, bud, it's a free country, right?
You're right: I can't tell you what to do, so just enjoy the freedom to rebuke my lack of compliant "understanding" and let's just blindly abuse the freedom to misuse chemicals while routinely eliminating thousands of young casualties of alcohol who may, if given the opportunity, have discovered actual solutions to some of the many other social ills that fester everywhere our advanced, civilized society indirectly tolerates; not just chemical abuse, but other aberrant, destructive behavior.
Needless to mention, every sociologist will report, whether good or bad, the closely-observed behaviors of so-called mature adults leaves a huge impression on our youth, and influences their own behavior without the experience to know when too much is enough.
I, for one, continue to hope kids at least reconsider misapplying their naturally-occurring indestructible attitudes toward the chemical abuse behavior they repeatedly observe in "adults" before it's too late for them, and their innocent victims.

AzTallRider

So, over1, are you suggesting it is impossible to "drink responsibly", by consuming in moderation, and not driving while impaired?

The Weak Link

Where on Earth did you get that idea? We do not live in a free country. There are lots of things that you can say that will get you in real trouble.

I'm heading down to the Department of Non-Compliance and do some jay-walking.

Hey, it's not much but I'm new to this civil disobedience thing.

over1

No, Az,
I'm saying users limits, by survival necessity, is a learned process, and doesn't occurr in a controlled evironment like a labratory experiment, leaving those inexperienced participants disarmed without the disciplined ablity to distinguish they've gone beyond moderation and into abuse: it's inherent in misuing a mind/mood-altering chemical of any kind, "legal" or not.
No one is born with a checklist of qualifying specifications like your bike, that dictates the absolute limits of it's capability and what may be an excessive activity. If alcohol, or, pick another chemical, wouldn't specifically remove that judgment ability from the individual, the user would at least have a fighting chance to may a reasonable decision, once a level of "buzz" is attained, to stop, or at least, not get behind the wheel. But that doesn't happen, and it doesn't happen thousands of times, over and over, to a fresh set of participants, ad infinitum.
Question is, how do we publically or privately enjoy our chosen chemicals, while effectively instructing observers of the potential dangers, and not look like a fascist? Looks like it's impossible.

BluesDawg

CraigB

I never drink to achieve any kind of "buzz." I learned many years ago in college that I really don't like the sensation, and I like even less how I feel the next day. The reason I do drink the one or two beers I consume in a month is I love the taste of good beer and ale. 90% of the time I drink, it's one beer only, and on the rare occasions I have a second, it's highly dependent on circumstances, including whether any driving would be involved after the fact. And I never, ever have more than two. Part of it is avoiding unnecessary calories, part is that I just don't care to do it.

But hey - for all I know I'm in a tiny minority. Even so, it's not pleasant to be tarred by the same brush used for binge drinkers, genuine alcoholics and buzz-fueled vehicular homicide perps.

Kurt Erlenbach

I think you're way overstating your point. I think an important part of raising children is teaching them responsible use of legal substances, and one way that happens is by observation; if the children see you being responsible, they learn responsibility. Total abstention coupled with overstating the horrors of alcohol, too often results in binge drinking when the shackles come off and the kids are on their own.

I don't think it's impossible to teach responsible use, and I'd like to think I've succeeded with my adult children both through words and example. In fact, I think it is a mandatory part of child rearing.

over1

Acknowleged replies, the broad brush is oficially retracted.
What bothers me are those of our youth, in particular, who aren't fortunate to have mature, responsible instuctors, who are left to discover life, with all its pitfalls, on their own. Who reaches those? Why would anyone reasonably condone/approve/teach/display/engage in a behavior, the simple abuse of which has been the source of so much human pain and suffering, to anyone, whether it's their own kids or not? You can play with a loaded gun; it isn't illegal; but what is the motive? Just to display the skill you've achieved/courage revealed/recklessness to observers? For what? A fleeting rush of adrenanline?
As a bicyclist, I simply react against any behavior that adds to the growing list rationalizations for vehicle-operator impairment.
It doesn't just stop at chemical (ab)use, legal or not, recreational or not. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like it when a fellow rider is mowed down by a driver who thinks it's okay to be distracted/impaired while: changing radio stations/reading a map/talking on the cell/having an argument/medicated/disciplining kids/texting/dropping a lit cigarette/etc., and no one is going to convince me all those "harmless" activities don't have all the potential to destroy the innocent life of...one of...US...maybe even before we all make it home today. Somehow, somewhere, those aberrant drivers learned it's okay to be distracted and I want to say, really...IT'S NOT, STOP IT, you know what I mean? Chemicals just have the additional well-established negative effects already mentioned.
Well, I suppose I've said enough, before the moderators remove my soapbox. Stay safe out there. Ride like your life depends on it, so we all can continue to enjoy the variety of your valued input here.

storckm

Once I gave up beer for lent and my weight went down to 135#. This scared me so much that I haven't tried that again. I'm over 6 feet tall, and at my normal weight of 150#, my BMI is at the very light edge of normal.
I'd guess I drink about 6 drinks a week, on average (and definitely not all at once), but don't measure too carefully, since I'm drinking my own beer, hard cider, and mead, and don't use standard size bottles.