Garilia

I originally posted this in Recreation and family (there's no Beginner's Forum on here). Someone mentioned since I'm around 50 (in 6 weeks) I should post this here. Is it because once we start posting in the 50+ club, they don't let us go anywhere else???

For the people who like to cut to the chase, I'm considering a 29er MTB, possibly one of the 2011 Giant Talons, or a Specialized Hard Rock Sport.

Now some background information that helps inform you about what might work or not work for me:

Okay, so 25 years ago I bought my first "real bike." I looked it up recently,and it was a 1985 Trek 300. I road it a lot in the beginning, but then we started having kids, and I started putting on weight, and after awhile it felt skittish under me. I wound up not riding it for years, and I sold it about 15 years ago. I'm 5'9" (male) and weighed around 155 when I bought it. Within 5 years I was over 200, and just a few months ago I was 270.

I've recently made a new commitment to my personal fitness (something about the being 100 or more pounds overweight,and hitting 50 years old that woke me up). I've dropped 50 pounds and plan to drop at least 50 more, and I want to start biking again.

I'm very active in boy scouts with my boys, and do camp, raft, canoe, hike...

I live in South Florida and have access to decent (but always busy) roads, and some nice trail riding at various parks. Two weeks ago I was thinking "hybrid." And two shops were pushing me towards the Trek 7300, and a third was mentioning the Specialized Crosstrail.

As I've done more research (including reading/lurking in this bike forum and a couple of others, and reading lots of bike reviews) I don't think a hybrid is what will work best for me. I went and visited 4 more local bike shops and got more to think about.

The hybrids just won't work for the trails at the parks around here. There's some really nice off-road trails, and you need a mountain bike. All 4 shops I visited today were unanimous about that. However, I would like it to be an all-purpose bike, where I could ride on paved paths/roads, and possibly do some longer road rides as my son works on the cycling merit badge.

I have a friend that owns a K2 mountain bike from Sports Authority for trail riding, but he realized after putting 23 miles around town he needed another bnike and he bought a K2 hybrid and loves it. On the other extreme, I have a friend who bought a Cannondale Bad Boy hybrid, did a lot of road riding (about 70 miles a week, with 50 milers on weekends) and he recently sold that and bought a more expensive aluminum Cannondale road bike (I think it's the CAAD9 4).

I don't want to buy two cheap bikes, and I can't afford two good ones right now. I have a feeling I might do more trail and recreational riding, with the occasional road ride thrown in. I'm not interested in competing or racing, just having fun riding.

Sorry for being long-winded, but I wanted to give any of you experts, some background information.

One of the salespeople (and a friend of mine, another scouter who is a firefighter, but used to work at a bike shop his dad owned) said that you could get a mountain bike and change the tires for the different ride you're going to do.

So that's how the 29ers came into play. I test rode the Giant Talon2 today, and it felt great under me...in the parking lot. I test rode a Specialized Hard Rock Sport 29, and I don't like the shop. The sales guy just pulled it off the floor and rolled it out the door for me, while the Giant sales guy took it to the back and checked the tire pressure, adjusted the seat height for me, rode it himself once around the parking lot to make sure it was riding right, then gave me a quick inservice on the shifters. While riding the Specialized when I coasted with one leg up and one leg down, my thigh would rub against the seat stay.

I actually liked two of the shops today, (and they both are Giant dealers...coincidence???) They told me I could buy 700c tires, in the 35-45 range and switch them out for road riding. The front suspension locks, and the seat post is quickly adjustable for a trail vs. a road riding position. I would think of adding end bars to offer a little variation in hand position.

Some specs on the Talons: Both have disc brakes, 100mm suspension forks, both have SRAM trigger shifters and rear derailleur. The Talon 1 is about $150 more, and for that, key upgrades include hydraulic rather than mechanical disc brakes, an upgrade on the suspension fork to an SR Raidon 29, a front derailleur upgrade from a Shimano Alivo to a Deore, the trigger shifters and rear derailleurs upgrade to a SRAM x.5, as well as an upgraded hub and wheelset.

First question, Am I out of my mind to try and make this MTB a road worthy bike by simply buying a second set of tires?

Second question, are the upgrades on the Talon 1, worth spending $150 more?

Third question (kind of piggybacking on the first), should I consider just buying a cheaper MTB, and see if a decent used road bike ever becomes available?

If you're still reading this, I thank you, and I look forward to any input.

BluesDawg

I think you are on the right track. First of all, congrats on the weight loss and kudos for your commitment to further health improvements. Bicycling is a great way to increase your activity level.

At this stage, choosing a good bike shop is as important as which bike you choose. You seem to already have that figured out. Also, it sounds like you plan to do some real offroad and more offroad than onroad riding for now, and I agree that you would do better with a mountain bike than a hybrid. 29ers are good, but so are 26" wheeled MTBs. I would try riding both before making a choice. There are roadworthy tires available in either size. But don't read this as steering you away from choosing a 29er. Just try both and choose the one that feels best.
Hard to say about the upgrade. A lot depends on your budget.

kr32

A good LBS is worth a lot, you have found one. Buy the mtb(29) and do the tire swaps, even though in my opinion, which is useless, would be a pain and I would get tired of that and just ride it with the mtb tires. Later if you want a road bike check out CL and find one cheap and see if that will be to your liking, if so save and buy a new one later.

losing 50 is impressive and another 50 will be super impressive, good luck and congratulations.

bjjoondo 

Using a MTB on the road works out well for some of us that don't really worry about "SPEED", my 2 cents is buy a "2nd. set of wheel's" and put your "Road Tires" on them, then the "Switch" is fast and easy. My wife and I converted our Hardtail MTB's to road/touring hybrids but it wouldn't take much to make them more "off-road" capable if we wanted them to be. MTB's are very versital machines, with just a switch of tires and some handlebar extensions, they make great road bikes, NOT fast road bikes, for that, you'll need the "2 bike syndrome", ie: a MTB and a Road/Touring bike. Our budget is like your's we can't afford two GOOD bikes. Pls. find a good LBS you can work with, they are worth the extra funds you'd spend over any big box retailer or sports shop, jmho. Have FUN!

BigBlueToe

Your plan seems good to me, although my experience says people don't always know what kind of riding they'll do most - road or offroad - until they start doing it. I love mountain biking, but spend 90% of my time on the roads. However, it would seem that the best plan would be to base your decision on your best guess. You can always make adjustments later - like getting a road bike.

I rode a rigid mountain bike all throuth the 90's. A couple of years ago I bought a Hardrock hardtail frame and put some nice Marzocchi forks on it. What a difference! The forks cost $250 on sale and were well worth it. I don't have a comment on mechanical vs. hydraulic brakes.

I do know about switching road tires and knobbies. I have slicks (Ritchey Tom Slicks) for both my son's and wife's mountain bikes and used to switch them out before road rides. (They now both have road bikes as well.) For several years I only had one bike - the old rigid Rockhopper. I switched tires on that too.

I can say that switching tires is a bit of a hassle, but not that bad. I can switch both tires out in about 15 minutes. I'll admit that it was enough of a hassle that sometimes I would base the days ride (road or offroad) on whichever tires happened to be on the bike.

Buying a second set of wheels would be expensive, but it would save a bit of hassle. It's a lot easier to remove and replace wheels than tires off a rim.

I concur that finding a bike shop you like with the type of salespeople you feel good about is important. There are so many good brands of bikes with little to separate them that I'd consider going with the one that came from the shop I liked vs. one I didn't.

Bicycling is a great sport and a very positive lifestyle choice. I hope you get into it and stick with it. I don't think it's a very good weight loss program by itself, but can add fitness and be a wonderful complement to the weight loss program you're on. (I started a 1200 mile bike tour needing to lose about 15 lbs. I ended up gaining 8 lbs. I didn't lose because of the gigantic appetite I had while on the road, and the weight I gained was muscle; I was in awesome shape at the end.) If you do stick with it you'll probably start thinking about a new bike in a year or two. You can always add a road bike to the stable if that's what you end up wanting.

Good luck!

ciocc_cat

Bicycling + good diet = weight loss (voice of experience). For me the return to cycling last year at age 54 was actually the easier part. Sticking to a healthy diet required some research into nutrition and developing an awareness of how much and what I was eating. I had to change my eating habits - cut out the fried/fast foods and eat more fresh vegetables, but I went from 214 pounds back down to a trim 159 pounds. Using an on-line diet tracker such as livestrong.com really helped me, but it sounds like you've already found a formula that works for you. An MTB with an extra set of wheels for road riding sounds like a good idea.

Dchiefransom

700C tires fit on a 29er rim?

BluesDawg

Unless your offroad trails are very muddy, requiring especially aggressive knobby tires, you may be able to find tires that have a fairly smooth center with more tread on the edges as a good compromise for both on and offroad riding.

The Weak Link

^^^^^That looks like a good idea.

When I was using my mountain bike for road riding, I had two sets of wheels. It's a snap to change out a wheelset. Not so with changing just the tires.

As most others have said, your cycling career such as it is may be a work in progress, and what you like when you're sleek and aerodynamic might not be exactly what you want today. Thus N+1.

fietsbob

Continental Travel Contact in 26 x1.75 is a fine mixed use tire too. slick center band rather than the Diamond file tread..

I have much less use of my Derailleur bikes since getting my IG hub bike. Rohloff ..
they designed it well in the first place,

so they don't have a new! improved! version to promote every year, they just work fine..
year after year..

stapfam

So how aggressive is the offroad that you plan on doing? What type of soil is involved? Hard pack?- loose soil that will turn to mud when wet? Mainly wooded areas that will offer some shelter? Rocky Stuff?

Not questions We could answer and probably not what you could either. Talk to some local mountain bikers- find out what type of bike is required (But don't get sucked into the Full suspension side unless it is necessary and you can afford a good one) Local user knowledge is better than talking to a shop that wants to sell you something--Or possibly anything.

If I were advising a "New" mountain biker I would suggest a Hardtail frame- Front suspension that has adjustment to it and can be rebuilt- LX drivetrain as a minimum- and as disc brakes are coming down in price for quality- Disc brakes. One thing I would look at though is the quality of the wheels. At your weight- I would suggest better wheels than are normally supplied. And on tyres- Run with what comes on the bike and then decide if a different tyre is required. Some knobblies work well on the road. But if separate tyres for Mountain biking and road are required- then a second set of wheels makes life a lot easier.

But the main thing to do is get riding. I don't honestly think that for the first year or so the quality of the bike will matter much- or what is fitted to it. Unless it is a low grade bike that will be back in the shop being repaired frequently. It will get you through the learning curve and find the fitness that is required to ride offroad. Once that is over and done with- you can look at bikes with better knowledge as to what you should have bought in the first place.

digibud

You are planning on doing exactly what I did. I got a 29er hard tail and a set of narrow road tires (narrow for a mtb). I have road tires, mtn tires and studded tires and swap them out. I weighed 278 when I started riding again last year and now weight 218 but I would not have gotten here riding trails. I did a lot of extended aerobic riding with a heart monitor. Local trails are so up and down I'd get anaerobic fast, then get a breather, then get anaerobic again. You may find trails fun but they can't provide (in most cases) the extended workout at a reasonable aerobic rate that most roads can do. I also bought a hard fork because it gets too cold here to use a suspension fork in the Winter. My single bike works very nicely for road and mtn biking. Next Spring, if I am under 210, which I expect to be, I will get a full road bike because I do love riding fast and the drop bars alone give me another mph or so and the close gearing is a nice thing. Till then my bike with the right tires thrown on works great and I think you'll find the same. Buying spare wheels and tires to throw on at a moment's notice would be great but I don't have the money to toss at saving that time; I just change tires as needed for the planned trip. Soon the studs will go on for the Winter.

Garilia

Thanks for all the comments!

Too many for me to reply individually right now, but some additional comments come to mind.

I absolutely get that when I lose 50 more, I'll feel differently (lighter on my bike!) I bet the problem was worse in reverse as I steadily kept putting on weight over the past 23 years, and eventually didn't feel good on my old Trek 300, and I sold it after 10 years and not riding it for about 5. So I bought a Murray mountain style bike and would putz around on that.

I am seriously looking at the bikes on bikesdirect.com. I would start with a mtb, and then get a cheaper road bike on down the line. I can see how changing the tires is not that bad, but becomes a hassle after awhile. I'm a homebrewer, and when I started out, I loved the bottling process. After a few years and lots of kids (I have 4 boys) sucking my time away (in a nice way;-) I decided kegging would be a lot easier for me. So I know that eventually a road bike would be necessary, but in the beginning a mtb would be sufficient.

I live in southwest Broward County Florida. A popular park to singletrack at is Markham Park (it is on the eastern edge of the Everglades). Lots of limestone rocks down here, and sand. We don't really have quality dirt down here.

Here's a description I read at https://www.singletracks.com/bike-tra...kham-park.html

There's approximately 10 miles if you follow all the trails available. Conditions vary depending on which portion of the trail you're on. What you're actually riding on is the fill left from when they originally dug the lakes in the park, so conditions go from rocky in some areas to hard packed sand in the forested areas. For the majority though I'd say the trails are nicely packed sand. About the only warning I can give is that unless you enjoy swimming your bike through gigantic puddles, avoid the park after a good rainstorm. The lakes have a tendancy of overflowing into the trails when it storms.

https://trails.mtbr.com/cat/united-st...8_4540crx.aspx

"These trails are some of (if not) the best we have going for us in South FL. Markham is a ton of fun especially with a group. If you like twisty, technical singletrack with a fair share of funky bridges, abrupt climbs, and exhilarating drops, this is the place to go in So. FL. The trail and elevation are actually built into and around the fill from the surrounding lakes dug throughout the park. The terrain is comprised mostly of very fine hard packed sand, and dirt with some rocky sections, for good measure. A lot of fun. Everything is marked perfectly, so there really aren't any surprises or potential to ride up to something you didn't anticipate. Props to the volunteer trailbuilders, they have brought this place to an awesome level of rideability relative to its former state, it flows beautifully (if you expect the typical type of terrain that Markham offers). I went yesterday and even though it was pouring rain and I was drenched, the trails were so well maintained and fun to ride, I felt like I was on a Disney-owned property."

I go to Markham frequently for canoeing, camping and other recreational activities. I am looking forward to experiencing their bike trails.

I don't know which I'll do more (road or mountain) at this point I hope to balance them out. I have a 7 year old and a 13 year old still at home (and a 19 year old who comes and goes) and they'd be more into the park scene, so if we hit the park as a family outing, I can go hit the trails for a bit, with the older ones. But I did enjoy road riding when I was younger on the Trek 300. I travel a lot around the state with boy scouts and am not afraid to drive 350 miles to go have some outdoor fun on a long weekend. So when I get proficient, some trails I used to dayhike in Gainesville, called San Felasco Hammock are supposed to be nice to ride.

I've learned for me at least that weight loss/management is mostly about what you eat. I have been on exercise routines at the gym where I gained weight, because I wasn't careful about what I ate. I want to ride because I enjoy it. I love being outdoors. I want to keep my muscles working (I'm a teacher in an air conditioned classroom all week) I need to run, jump and play on weekends ;-)

Oh, and yes, both Giant dealers told me that a 700c tire would fit on the 29er rims.

Meanwhile, one thing that has me seriously thinking of going the Bikesdirect.com buying way is because my friend Larry (a firefighter) used to runa bike shop with his dad, and he has a very nice bike workshop in his garage. He custom built his MTB on a Trek aluminum frame, and bought a Raleigh road bike.

I think I like hardtail over full suspension at this point. Any thoughts on mechanical vs. hydraulic disc brakes?

BluesDawg

Hydraulic disc brakes are wonderful. I have not used the mechanical type, but I hear they work well. The rims on 29" MTBs are 700c.

Bikes Direct offers a great value for the price IF you know what you want and IF you have the ability to set up and maintain your own bike. Otherwise, you risk buying the wrong bike or the wrong size and quickly spending your savings on mechanical work that may have been free from a shop where you bought the bike.

Looking at the 29ers at BD, I would go for one with a Tora fork.

bobthib

Garilia, I know you are local as you know a mutual friend, Matt K. You saw me in Keith H's picture post on the Lake Okeechobee 115 mi r9/4. PM me if you want to talk. Here is my input.

1. A great bike for broad general use as a cyclocross bike (CX) bike. I won't bore you with the history, but it's a road bike meant for off road and road. With the possible exception of the Markham park trail, it can handle most anything you will encounter here in So Fla.

2. If you have good mechanical skills, or know a good wrench (I have one I can hook you up with) then an on-line bike may suit you. You can get a lot of bike for the $$, but you are on your own in many respects. If I were to buy a CX bike I would get one of the following:

1st Choice $799 cx bike

2nd choice $559 cx bike

Since you only want to get one bike to do a lot, a CX bike is a good option for a noob.

3. Go to www.meetup.com and look up South Florida Bicycle Club. They have rides almost every day of the week, and there is a ride to meet every level. If you are a rank beginner, the Wed night 7 AM ride out of Costco parking lot in Boca Raton is a great place to start.

If you are a little advanced, the TUesday night ride (6:30 PM Holiday Park, Sunrise Blvd. Ft. Lauderdale) or the THursday night ride (6:30 pm Publix Parking lot, E. Dania Beach Blvd.) There is also an advanced ride on wedensday night, 6:30 PM at Costco in Boca.

In Coral Springs, you can ride with CSP Express. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, 5:30 AM at the Old Bike America store on sample road (2hrs, +/- 35 mi), Sat 7 AM Lakeview and Coral Ridge Drive (35 and 42 mi) and Sunday, 7:30AM at Starbucks, Coral Ridge Drive and Holmberg Rd. (Several Rides) THere are many other ride options available, so PM me if you want more options.

THe real key is to do it, and keep doing it. Good luck

DX-MAN

Yes, good sir; both have 622mm rims.

Garilia

Bob, I am semi-mechanically inclined, and I'm a fairly quick learner. However, I have a friend (Larry) that is a firefighter and another leader in my boy scout troop who used to help run a bike shop that his dad owned. Apparently his dad was one of the first Trek dealers when they began. Larry told me bikesdirect sounded like the way to go. Larry has a nice amateur bike shop in his garage. He bought an aluminum Trek frame and built his own MTB by ordering all of his components separately. He told me yesterday that he'd be willing to help me assemble and adjust it when I get it. Instead of buying a $900-1000 MTB and putting some more into making it work for the road, I might go on a little bit larger budget and get a $600-800 mtb from bikesdirect, and then in a few months to a year get a $500-600 road bike from them. That's my thinking now. It might change tomorrow ;-) I'll look at those cyclocross bikes you mentioned.

Work week rides will be tough for me. I'm very active in South Florida scouting. I met Matt and his wife about three years ago when they were both on the training team for a training I was a participant in. We see each other at scout events every now and then. Next time I see him I'll discuss biking with him. I tend to have scout meetings and/or leader meetings on Monday (leader planning), Tuesday (troop), and Thursday (pack), with some Wednesdays thrown in once or twice a month. I just resigned as the Scoutmaster after 6 years of a troop I started so I can be the Cubmaster of the Cub Scout pack my youngest is joining. I am also involved in leader training for the district. So most of my midweek rides will be little jaunts around the neighborhood and minor grocery runs. Weekends that I'm not camping, I'll be riding one place or another. Thanks for the feedback. I'm sure we'll meet someday.

CraigB

I agree with bjjoondo - spend a little extra to get a second set of "street" wheels. You'll get unbelievably tired (no pun intended) of switching tires. Even if you're good at it, it's relatively time consuming and dirty work. And since the wheels have to come off the bike to change tires anyway, you've already done all the work involved in a wheel change. Wheels are a quick and easy swap. A few years ago I thought I'd get a hybrid to use for road riding while I lost enough weight to feel comfortable on my road bike again. But a good and knowledgeable cycling friend suggested it would be a waste of money since my ultimate goal was to go back to the road bike. He thought if I got a mountain bike, and a set of street wheels/tires, when the time came to get back on the road bike I'd have a completely different bike for taking off-road on occasion. If I'd gone with the hybrid, when I got back to the road bike, the hybrid would be redundant and would just gather dust.

So I got this basic Fisher hardtail and a set of slightly narrower rimmed wheels for 1.5" tires:

Garilia

Craig, I agree with the thinking. Of course a second set of wheels on a bike with disc brakes can run me a pretty penny. The $900 bike would become a $1200 bike. I agree that the hybrid would become redundant. I'm leaning towards a good mountain bike, and then in a few months when I get under 200, and save some money, get a decent road bike.

So you've lost 83 lbs. Way to go. I wasn't 300, but our goal weight is the same. I started at 270, and I weigh 220 today. I want to get to 165 as well.

Garilia

When I look in the mirror and see that staring back at me I know I need a haircut! Aaah, it didn't show the tire photo!

The Weak Link

Too many big paragraphs.

Good stuff, but by the time I get to the second and even third sentence my mind begins to wandkkkkkkkkkk,gnlk vlnjk5 g.

CraigB

Yeah, I didn't have to factor discs into my budget when I did it. I guess you can start out switching tires and just see how long you can stand to do it. I'd think pretty soon you'd discover a preference for street or trail and keep it that way most of the time.

Thanks, and congrats on your weight loss, too.

The first 50 of mine came off over the past 3 or 4 years, but then I starting climbing back up till I was at 264 this past March. That's when I decided to get really serious about it and make some permanent changes. Sometimes it seems daunting, but then I think, all I have to do is behave a certain way, and my metabolism does all the heavy lifting for me. So in some ways it's as easy as falling off a log. It's not like having to dig ditches for a living or anything.

We also seem to share a common goal: a new road bike when we break 200. I obviously have one now, but it's 20 year old technology, plus it doesn't fit me as well as it used to.

bobthib

That's the trouble with today's youth. They lack the ability to concentrate and focus. Too much TV!

jppe

Have you looked or thougth about Cross bikes?

BluesDawg

Looking at the type of offroad riding he plans to do, I would not recommend a cyclocross bike.