Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-02-10, 07:11 AM   #1
oilman_15106
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Dutch hate to wear cycling helmets

Front page story in today's Wall St. Journal blew my mind when I read it.

"Grown men wear helmets and fluorescent jackets, and it looks dangerous." The statistics were even more discouraging. The Dutch Cyclists Union pushes hard against use of helmets.

Here in Pennsylvania we have a mandatory bicycle helmet law for riders under 12 years old. Never enforced but not a bad idea in my mind.

Here is a link to the article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...616160146.html

For me I never leave the driveway without a helmet. Maybe the Dutch drivers are all really considerate to cyclists but here in the good ole USA not so much.
oilman_15106 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 07:51 AM   #2
thompsonpost
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Helmets protect you when you bump your head on things. They do not stop cars from crushing your head.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 08:04 AM   #3
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Make your own choice. I choose to wear a helmet when I ride.

Mine protected my head when I bumped it on a car.
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 08:15 AM   #4
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011 Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220, 1991 Bianchi Osprey
Posts: 2,207
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Please let's not start this debate again....
MinnMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 08:23 AM   #5
thompsonpost
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Make your own choice. I choose to wear a helmet when I ride.

Mine protected my head when I bumped it on a car.
I never ride without one, either.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 08:24 AM   #6
thompsonpost
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minnman View Post
please let's not start this debate again....
Ok.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 08:39 AM   #7
DnvrFox
Banned.
 
DnvrFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 20,916
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Heck - everyone knows how hard-headed the Dutch are!!
DnvrFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 08:40 AM   #8
The Weak Link
Banned.
 
The Weak Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Post-partisan Paradise
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Posts: 4,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What makes the Dutch the final arbiters of bicycle safety?
The Weak Link is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 09:08 AM   #9
1nterceptor
LET'S ROLL
 
1nterceptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NEW YORK, NY - USA
Bikes: 2014 BMC Gran Fondo, 2013 Brompton S6L-X
Posts: 3,949
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
I've been to the Netherlands a few times, most of their bike path networks
are seperate from car traffic. I think this gives the Dutch a huge sense of
safety, maybe that's why they don't wear helmets. And I believe there is a
rule that in a bike with car accidents, the car is assumed guilty right away.
Again adding another sense of security for the Dutch people.
__________________
I'm not a boy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znNx...aIoDLA&index=1
1nterceptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 09:28 AM   #10
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Please let's not start this debate again....
Why not?
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 09:29 AM   #11
Yen
Surly Girly
 
Yen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 4,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives. True, it won't stop a car from rolling over our head but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object.
__________________
Specialized Roubaix Expert
Surly Long Haul Trucker
Yen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 09:35 AM   #12
billydonn
Council of the Elders
 
billydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
Posts: 3,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Euro-socialist nations are notorious for their respect of personal liber.... oh, never mind.
billydonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 10:28 AM   #13
ctyler
Badger Biker
 
ctyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beloit, Wisconsin
Bikes: Cannondale Saeco CAD-3, Surly Cross Check
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I never wear a helmet when riding a bike trail. But always do when riding the road.
ctyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 10:30 AM   #14
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yen View Post
In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives. True, it won't stop a car from rolling over our head but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object.
Well, if you ride a bike in a position such that your head is hanging over the handlebars, this is a very real risk. Dutch transportation cycling usually involves a much more upright seating position and relatively slow speeds. Not all cycling styles are equally risky.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 10:46 AM   #15
slorollin
Senior Member
 
slorollin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Eastern NC
Bikes: '81 Puch '13 Cafe Noir
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I love the Dutch. They invented licorice candy too. We Americans, however have a tendency to try to save one another for our own damned good.
We oughta' go over there and bust some heads before they start wearing helmets.
slorollin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 10:52 AM   #16
tomio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wear helmets all the time, but you have to understand that US infrastructure is not the most biker-friendly... The heart of Amsterdam consists of roads that mostly bikers use. It's more of a hassle to drive there than ride a bike. My point is that their city structure makes it so accidents and injuries in general are not as prevalent as they are here in the US. Helmets undoubtedly save lives, but it's more of an issue here to wear them because there is a higher risk of injury every time we mount our bikes.
tomio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 10:59 AM   #17
sknhgy 
Dirt Bomb
 
sknhgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Bikes:
Posts: 2,658
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 372 Post(s)
They also wear wooden shoes. Does that mean we have to?
sknhgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 11:24 AM   #18
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,222
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yen View Post
In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives.
Why would there be no doubt? ER doctors aren't trained in accident reconstruction - nor are they in a position to gather data that would be needed for that. They are good at fixing the injuries that occur, but have no special expertise in determining what injuries would have been sustained in the absence of a helmet. Those of us who cycled long before helmets became popular did not observe greater numbers of serious head injuries or fatalities back then compared to today. Certainly it would have been noticed and had a chilling influence on the sport if multiple members of a single cycling club died in one year due to separate incidents.

"... but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object."

If this were true then countries such as Australia where enforced helmet laws have sharply increased the helmet usage (to over 80%) should show dramatic reductions in the serious injury and fatality rates. But instead the number of hospitalizations and fatalites have only been reduced slightly - and traffic counts of cyclists show somewhat greater reductions. So the rate of serious injuries and fatalities has not been improved at all - the main impact of the law has been to discourage cycling.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 11:48 AM   #19
Nightshade
Humvee of bikes =Worksman
 
Nightshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I fell awhile back while airing my tires. When I gathered my senses I looked around to see if I was hurt and saw the stations building curb , with metal wear edge!, not 3" from my head!! If my head had struck that curb with no helmet I would not be here now. Scared me straight to always wear my helmet !!!
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.

Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
Nightshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 11:58 AM   #20
doctor j
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central Louisiana
Bikes:
Posts: 2,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Helmets look dorky, they're uncomfortable, they're too expensive, and I don't like them... but i wear one anyway.
doctor j is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 12:38 PM   #21
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 6,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Weak Link View Post
What makes the Dutch the final arbiters of bicycle safety?
Did you read the article? It certainly didn't come across as the Dutch believing they are the final arbiters of bicycle safety to me. In fact, it seems very similar to the "conversations" around helmet use on these forums.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
NOS88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 12:44 PM   #22
stapfam
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Posts: 19,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
On my commute into work I see two types of riders. Without exception- all the commuters on the roads wear helmets. Think the message has got through to the "Regular" cyclists at long last. Associated with these are the cyclists I see on the roads out on "Training" rides. Most of these wear helmets as they weave in and out of the traffic on the coast road riding the rollers that abound along here.

But the exception are those using the Cycle path along the seafront. Any regular cyclist would not use these paths as they are also used by runners- skateboards- Dogs and the occasional car. It will take twice as long to get to work using the cycle path as when using the road where traffic is at a standstill so no danger to anyone. I rarely see a rider with a helmet on the Seafront- but then they don't go fast enough to have an accident- fall off - even have a Tombay. Just like the Dutch
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 12:52 PM   #23
Artkansas 
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Bikes:
Posts: 12,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
When I cycled from Vlissingen to Amsterdam in 1978 I encountered a group of school children beside the bike path that ran alongside a canal. The sight of the helmet on my head caused them to all break out in spontaneous laughter.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

Last edited by Artkansas; 11-02-10 at 12:59 PM.
Artkansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 01:04 PM   #24
cranky old dude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 4,259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wooden Shoe know it. Now we wanna tell the Dutch how to behave!!

Better put warning signs around those windmills while we're at it!!
cranky old dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-10, 01:12 PM   #25
donheff
Senior Member
 
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Capitol Hill, Washington, DC
Bikes: Specialized Tricross Comp
Posts: 1,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I always wear a helmet - probably because it is the thing to do here. In Amsterdam no one wears a helmet and I would not wear one there either - it would be like wearing a helmet in your car here (possibly safer but you would look like an idiot). Who knows what the reality about accidents is. The Australians just published a graph showing the number of head injuries to cyclists. It goes down decade by decade (possibly as bikes on the road became common and drivers became aware of them) and then leveled off. Then the Aussies passed a mandatory helmet law. The graph stayed right where it was - low but no lower.

I suspect helmets are unusual in the Netherlands because of history. The Dutch have been biking forever - young, old and in between. Bikes were probably ubiquitous back in the 50s and 60s before helmets became popular. Given a bike culture with no helmets why would people change? On the other hand, when I was riding in rural areas of the Netherlands last month I noticed that a lot of roadies wore helmets. The rule seemed to be if lycra and speed, then helmets.
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:45 PM.