Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-13-10, 05:40 PM   #1
kjc9640
Slo Spoke Jim
Thread Starter
 
kjc9640's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Bikes: 1982 Raleigh road bike & love it
Posts: 2,071
Bicyclists protest at AAA's HQ

The Rails-to-Trails Conservancy, a nonprofit organization supporting walking and biking paths, biked to AAA headquarters in Lake Mary Monday morning to deliver petitions to get the motoring group to support the idea of using gas tax money for more trails. Recently, a AAA executive said the Highway Trust Fund should spend money only on interstates, not stuff like bike trails.

Link to complete article.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,1581019.story
kjc9640 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 01:29 AM   #2
Robert Foster
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southern california
Bikes: Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
Posts: 3,498
Wasn't the whole purpose of a gas tax in the first place to help fund automotive related roads and infrastructure? Wouldn’t they have to establish a tax on Cyclists and then use that money or general fund money for non gas related highway expenses? It is called the federal “fuel” tax isn’t it? Plus isn’t the AAA the American “Automobile” Association? It might be different if all of the cyclists were paying AAA dues.

I agree we need more rails to trails but I am not sure AAA is the go to company for that. Maybe if they protested Ford, Toyota or BMW?
Robert Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 02:53 AM   #3
akohekohe
The Professor
 
akohekohe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: O'ahu
Bikes: Alex Moulton Double Pylon, Surly Big Dummy, Alex Moulton GT
Posts: 888
Well ... this is sort of more A&S if you ask me ... not that we don't do everything in 50+ but A&S topic threads tend to become less civil ... my take, as long as AAA isn't pressing to ban bicycles from the road I say let sleeping dogs lie ... they start trying to ban us that is another story ...
akohekohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 06:04 AM   #4
ThatBritBloke
Oh! That British Bloke ..
 
ThatBritBloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Princeton, NJ, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 243
In the UK competitive and recreational cyclists have a higher rate of car ownership than the general population. Most road users can tick several categories from pedestrian to trucker via cycling, carriage-driving and the rest.

The improvement of any particular user facility benefits the rest however obliquely.
ThatBritBloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 06:23 AM   #5
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 6,490
Here is the response I received after writing to AAA several weeks ago.

"Thank you for your comments...

I too am also a pedal cyclist, hardcore, [mt.biker and road biker], and a co-ride leader of our bike club, car owner and AAA Member as well. I personally use a local rail-to-trails pathway. However, there is some miss information about AAA out there that is just not true! I am assuming that you are referring to a Rails-to-Trails Conservancy statement made by its president Keith Laughlin, against a Mid-Atlantic AAA club editorial, with his perception that AAA is against bike trails, is totally false.

AAA has been a driving force involving transportation for over 100 years and is committed to providing safety, security and peace of mind for the traveling public. We advocate for safer, efficient transportation systems and its infrastructure. Contrary to what is asserted, nowhere was it said that we, AAA, should not fund bike trails,[or hiking trails, sidewalks, museums or mass transit] It is unfortunate that this false agenda is carried to the extreme and miss information is being promoted to further a conservancy position, whatever that is.

I would hope that you can be open to the facts of this matter and continue to be a valued AAA member, which we are very grateful for. Thank you

Most Sincerely,

Craig H. Smith
Director Public Relations/Safety
Editor/Administrator SYC&S"
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
NOS88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 06:25 AM   #6
ThatBritBloke
Oh! That British Bloke ..
 
ThatBritBloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Princeton, NJ, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 243
Did they really say "miss information"?
ThatBritBloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 06:33 AM   #7
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 6,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatBritBloke View Post
Did they really say "miss information"?
It's a direct quote.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
NOS88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 06:48 AM   #8
DnvrFox
Banned.
 
DnvrFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 20,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatBritBloke View Post
Did they really say "miss information"?
She is the sister of "miss quoted"
DnvrFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:01 AM   #9
byte_speed
Roadkill
 
byte_speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Tennessee
Bikes: 2002 Lightspeed Classic; 2010 Pedalforce RS
Posts: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
She is the sister of "miss quoted"
Miss information - Advice from the teenage daughter.
byte_speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:01 AM   #10
billydonn
Council of the Elders
 
billydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
Posts: 3,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
.... snip....

I agree we need more rails to trails but I am not sure AAA is the go to company for that. Maybe if they protested Ford, Toyota or BMW?
Ford, Toyota and BMW have not made proposals that endanger a long-standing funding stream for trails.
billydonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:16 AM   #11
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
Wasn't the whole purpose of a gas tax in the first place to help fund automotive related roads and infrastructure?
Yes, but the purpose of the tax has changed several times since its initial establishment. I don't see that as a bad thing

Last edited by z90; 12-14-10 at 08:42 AM.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:19 AM   #12
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
Wouldn’t they have to establish a tax on Cyclists and then use that money or general fund money for non gas related highway expenses? It is called the federal “fuel” tax isn’t it?
By this logic, the cigarette tax should be used only to fund the encouragement of smoking cigarettes.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:23 AM   #13
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
Plus isn’t the AAA the American “Automobile” Association? It might be different if all of the cyclists were paying AAA dues.

I agree we need more rails to trails but I am not sure AAA is the go to company for that. Maybe if they protested Ford, Toyota or BMW?
AAA is a special interest group advocating that money from the Highway Trust Fund that is currently available to fund thing like bike paths (and has been for 20 years) should no longer be available for those purposes. That is what the argument is about. It's a pretty specific fight, and it wouldn't make much sense to protest anyone else, since AAA is the organization that is advocating that position.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:36 AM   #14
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
By the way, if you don't like AAA's aggressive pro-auto lobbying, but you want their services, there is an alternative:
http://www.betterworldclub.com/
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:53 AM   #15
myrridin
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 2,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by z90 View Post
Yes, but the purpose of the tax has changed several times since its initial establishment. I don't see that as a bad thing
Yes, politicians decided to use a funding source (which was sold as a "user fee") for a purpose other than what the user fee was intended to fund... What a surprise.

Of course the Highway trust fund has been significantly underfunded for decades as a result, which is the main reason it has had to be supplemented by general funds in recent years, and is all but bankrupt... It is the main reason so many states have turned to Toll roads to pay for the needed transportation infrastructure.

It is also the reason, more than half of the transportation structures in the US are now rated as "below standard" which is engineering speak for getting ready to fall down. Think of that the next time you cross a bridge.
myrridin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 09:28 AM   #16
kjc9640
Slo Spoke Jim
Thread Starter
 
kjc9640's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Bikes: 1982 Raleigh road bike & love it
Posts: 2,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by akohekohe View Post
Well ... this is sort of more A&S if you ask me ... not that we don't do everything in 50+ but A&S topic threads tend to become less civil ... my take, as long as AAA isn't pressing to ban bicycles from the road I say let sleeping dogs lie ... they start trying to ban us that is another story ...
You are correct this should be an A & S topic but I felt that since it was first discussed in the 50+ forum some people might be interested in the followup. It might not be to far off that banning bikes from streets could happen. I think a town in Co. has attempted this already.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...&highlight=AAA
kjc9640 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 09:32 AM   #17
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
Yes, politicians decided to use a funding source (which was sold as a "user fee") for a purpose other than what the user fee was intended to fund... What a surprise.

Of course the Highway trust fund has been significantly underfunded for decades as a result, which is the main reason it has had to be supplemented by general funds in recent years, and is all but bankrupt... It is the main reason so many states have turned to Toll roads to pay for the needed transportation infrastructure.

It is also the reason, more than half of the transportation structures in the US are now rated as "below standard" which is engineering speak for getting ready to fall down. Think of that the next time you cross a bridge.
The primary reason the highway trust fund is "underfunded" is not because of the relatively tiny amount that has been allocated to bike lanes. It's because the tax hasn't been adjusted for inflation since 1993. Additionally, Americans have been driving less.

Last edited by z90; 12-14-10 at 09:43 AM.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 10:18 AM   #18
kjc9640
Slo Spoke Jim
Thread Starter
 
kjc9640's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Bikes: 1982 Raleigh road bike & love it
Posts: 2,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
It might be different if all of the cyclists were paying AAA dues.

I agree we need more rails to trails but I am not sure AAA is the go to company for that. Maybe if they protested Ford, Toyota or BMW?
I did not save the e-mail from R to T that addressed this, but by there numbers over 60% of the people that signed the petition were AAA members.
I think this is a very high ratio vs membership to population.
kjc9640 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 10:53 AM   #19
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjc9640 View Post
I did not save the e-mail from R to T that addressed this, but by there numbers over 60% of the people that signed the petition were AAA members.
I think this is a very high ratio vs membership to population.
Yep, Here's the link.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 11:09 AM   #20
Artkansas 
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Bikes:
Posts: 12,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatBritBloke View Post
Did they really say "Miss Information"?
Yeah, she's their booth babe.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
Artkansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 11:23 AM   #21
billydonn
Council of the Elders
 
billydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
Posts: 3,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by z90 View Post
By this logic, the cigarette tax should be used only to fund the encouragement of smoking cigarettes.
Ha! True enough but perhaps a better example from my field, recreation, would hold that all revenues from public golf courses should be kept in a "lock box" only for the improvement of golf courses and not for such things as better kids playgrounds or park maintenance and the like. In other words, "let them institute user fees for playgrounds", etc. if they want to improve those things. It just seems clear to me that some things just have the potential to raise revenue and others, that may have equal claims to being a "public good or benefit" really don't. Can we create a revenue stream and corresponding "lock box" for every public good?

Then there is the issue of land taken or held out of private ownership (and the local tax base) for golf or roads and whether that creates a nexus to the larger "public good" issue.
billydonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 07:23 PM   #22
Robert Foster
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southern california
Bikes: Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
Posts: 3,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by z90 View Post
By this logic, the cigarette tax should be used only to fund the encouragement of smoking cigarettes.
But I don't believe any private company is under any obligation to promote something they don't wish to. They sure wouldn’t support increased business taxes I shouldn’t think. There is no law yet that I know of that requires anyone to have the same opinion or support the same cause. In fact they have every right to oppose any cause they want as well.
We don’t have enough money for the support of infrastructure of our highways from the gas tax to start with. Taking any away seems counterproductive from that standpoint. I guess if you required cyclist to insure their bikes with AAA they would be more responsive rather than having to rely on their charity to support a position. Still if one individual in a company doesn’t agree with a stand on how taxes are spent I hardly feel it calls for brown shirt tactics to change their minds. If people don’t like their business stand I believe there are other insurance companies out there aren’t there?

Still the gas tax was established as a user tax. It doesn’t meet the needs it was designed for in the first place and seems like a very unlikely source for non gas related building projects. It is nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The cigarette Tax by the way is an excise tax so it has nothing to do with making smoking easier or promoting it.

But I don't believe any private company is under any obligation to promote something they don't wish to. They sure wouldn’t support increased business taxes I shouldn’t think. There is no law yet that I know of that requires anyone to have the same opinion or support the same cause. In fact they have every right to oppose any cause they want as well.
We don’t have enough money for the support of infrastructure of our highways from the gas tax to start with. Taking any away seems counterproductive from that standpoint. I guess if you required cyclist to insure their bikes with AAA they would be more responsive rather than having to rely on their charity to support a position. Still if one individual in a company doesn’t agree with a stand on how taxes are spent I hardly feel it calls for brown shirt tactics to change their minds. If people don’t like their business stand I believe there are other insurance companies out there aren’t there?

Still the gas tax was established as a user tax. It doesn’t meet the needs it was designed for in the first place and seems like a very unlikely source for non gas related building projects. It is nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The cigarette Tax by the way is an excise tax so it has nothing to do with making smoking easier or promoting it.

Complaining about AAA stand on highway funding is like complaining about TV programming. If you don’t like it change the channel, turn off the TV. If you don’t like how an automotive insurance company lobbies shouldn’t a person simply not use that company?
Robert Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:03 PM   #23
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
Still if one individual in a company doesn’t agree with a stand on how taxes are spent I hardly feel it calls for brown shirt tactics to change their minds.
Brown shirt tactics? I don't think petitions and discourse in the media constitutes brown shirt tactics. That's pretty much democracy and free speech in action. You just Godwined this thread. Nice job.


Godwin's Law
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:06 PM   #24
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910

Or a brown shirt. And neither am I, or Rails to Trails, or AAA.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 08:18 PM   #25
cyclinfool
gone ride'n
 
cyclinfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Simoncini, Gary Fisher, Specialized Tarmac
Posts: 4,051
IBTM

Mods - please move this before I say something I'm gonna regret!
cyclinfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:27 PM.