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Old 02-28-11, 07:21 PM   #1
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Economy Changing Neighborhoods Near You? Yours?

On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.

Anyone here have any experience?
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Old 02-28-11, 07:43 PM   #2
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"inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others"

If I were an inner city poor person I would be feeling disrespected right about now.
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Old 02-28-11, 08:07 PM   #3
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Very few foreclosures, values staying pretty good, with a slight drop. No houses for sale for a buck, or I would have bought a whole lot of them. New people moving in seem to have an appropriate amount of respect - but I guess, as always, respect has to be earned.
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Old 02-28-11, 09:13 PM   #4
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"inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others"

If I were an inner city poor person I would be feeling disrespected right about now.
+1 On the socio-economic scale both of my sons would fall into the category of a poor person living in a city. Thier culture is in large part my culture. Heck, I'm feeling a bit disrespected right now.
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Old 02-28-11, 09:27 PM   #5
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On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.









Anyone here have any experience?

I'm seeing exactly what you're talking about here. There has been a lot more gang activity and crime in the last couple of years.
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Old 02-28-11, 09:29 PM   #6
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Mods please move this to P&R
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Old 02-28-11, 09:35 PM   #7
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Read the piece. i just paraphrased the point of view expressed in the article.

By the same token if anyone doesn't think there is an "inner city culture" that has values and behaviour that is different than that in the suburbs they are living on a different planet.
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Old 02-28-11, 09:39 PM   #8
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Not a political post at all. I'm in the process of deciding whether to and where to relocate. Making a good decision demands a clear understanding of the effects foreclosures have on neighborhoods I might consider.

I'm not interested in replies that somehow confuse economic reality and its' effect on my housing and bicycle pleasure with political bias and correctness.

Denver's reply is exactly what I'm after.
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Old 02-28-11, 09:52 PM   #9
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My neighbours disrespect me and complain that the neighbourhood went to $%^& when I moved in.
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Old 02-28-11, 09:54 PM   #10
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My neighbours disrespect me and complain that the neighbourhood went to $%^& when I moved in.
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Old 03-01-11, 06:18 AM   #11
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Read the piece. i just paraphrased the point of view expressed in the article.

By the same token if anyone doesn't think there is an "inner city culture" that has values and behaviour that is different than that in the suburbs they are living on a different planet.
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Not a political post at all. I'm in the process of deciding whether to and where to relocate. Making a good decision demands a clear understanding of the effects foreclosures have on neighborhoods I might consider.

I'm not interested in replies that somehow confuse economic reality and its' effect on my housing and bicycle pleasure with political bias and correctness.

Denver's reply is exactly what I'm after.
I'm not living on a different planet. Nor, is this an issue of political correctness. Rather, it's an issue of accuracy. Too broad a picture is painted with phrases like "inner city poor people". Within Philadelphia alone, there are many inner city neighborhoods with "poor" people that all have different and mixed cultural influences. To suggest, even unintentionally, that inner city poor people are disrespectful simply isn't accurate, or is likely highly biased. I suspect, although I have no real support for this, that you might be more accurate simply expressing that your neighborhood is changing and you're looking for a new one. Then a brief description of what you're looking for would be more helpful to my mind. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have some neighbors that seem very respectful of those around them. Then we also have two or three who don't seem to respect anything but their own immediate needs, and they are by no stretch of the imagination poor. I also know of suburb neighborhoods less than five minutes from me that have an entirely different culture (as defined by the written and unwritten rules of behavior; the norms of how one is to act if one is to fit in) than my neighborhood. If I accept language like "inner city poor culture" as a viable description, I'm getting dangerously close to demonizing people who I don't know and who may be very much like me. I believe I do understand your concern about wanting to live with people who don't offend your sensibilities of how things should be. And I'm not critical of your attempt to make a decision about where to live, in part, by considering the culture of the place. I just have a really hard time with lumping so many people together for the sake of expediency with language that has the potential to do more harm than good.

Since you asked about people's experience, I'll give you mine. I've never moved to a neighborhood without first spending some time in it. I've knocked on doors, introduced myself, stated that we were considering moving to the neighborhood and asked what it was like to live here. I've gone to local libraries and read a week of two of local edition newspapers. I've shopped in local grocery stores, just to find people to chat with. The reactions I've gotten have been very helpful in making a decision. In fact, we've taken trips across state lines on numerous occasions to explore a potential new city, town, or region. I've others in my family who have done the same things. For example, my brother-in-law just completed visits to State College, PA, Austin, TX, and Baltimore MD, looking at possible places for his new home. Finally, the place I currently live was picked partly because of access to over 45 miles of bike trails within 1/4 mile from my front door.
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Old 03-01-11, 01:26 PM   #12
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Maybe not a different planet but apparently a radically different perspective that colors what you read. At the outset; I'm not considering relocating because my neighborhood is deteriorating. In fact my neighborhood is doing just fine. I don't want to move into an area that may look good now but due to things I, as a stranger, can't see stands a good chance of deteriorating.

You lecture about how you do a lot of homework before you move. But, yet you denigrate me for doing the same. Make up your mind.

What I want is real life, not media drama, information about the effect, if any, of neighborhood change due to reduced house values. I'm not interested in sociological or political diatribes.
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Old 03-01-11, 03:45 PM   #13
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Maybe not a different planet but apparently a radically different perspective that colors what you read. At the outset; I'm not considering relocating because my neighborhood is deteriorating. In fact my neighborhood is doing just fine. I don't want to move into an area that may look good now but due to things I, as a stranger, can't see stands a good chance of deteriorating.

You lecture about how you do a lot of homework before you move. But, yet you denigrate me for doing the same. Make up your mind.

What I want is real life, not media drama, information about the effect, if any, of neighborhood change due to reduced house values. I'm not interested in sociological or political diatribes.
Denigrate: to attack the reputation of; to defame; to deny the importance of.

I don't see where my post denigrates at all. It surely was not my intent. If you read that into it, you read it wrong. I was trying to be supportive of the notion of finding a place to live where one is comfortable. At the same time I was expressing my own difficulty with some language that was used, and I don't believe I even attributed the language to you. I think you might do well to take a step back and consider your use of "sociological or political diatribes" and consider who denigrates who.
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Old 03-01-11, 04:55 PM   #14
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The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.
This is the main reason I DON'T ride into Atlanta.

So far our neighborhood hasn't been affected by any of this.
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Old 03-01-11, 10:12 PM   #15
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"inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others".

For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.
As to the question, I live in Nevada, which is worst in the nation for foreclosures, but most of the problem has been with speculator-owned homes around Las Vegas. Frankly I'm happy to see a lot of those people get stung.
Homes in my neighborhood near Reno were valued from around $300,000 to $2 million or so in 2007 (wide variation because they range from 1940s two-bedrooms to modern McMansions). I was near the low end of that, about $350K on zillow.com. Today on the same website, we're at $182,000. My neighbor's house, on the river, sold for $1.3 million in 2006, today zillow shows it at $632K.
Only one foreclosure in the area that I'm aware of, though, and the neighborhood hasn't changed. I'd really like to see some changes and more diversity, in fact. It's an all-white, upper middle class Republican neighborhood, full of professional people with a sprinkling of "old-time Nevadans" who also trend to an unconsidered kind of conservatism. The neighborhood parties are sort of tedious.
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Old 03-01-11, 10:46 PM   #16
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Really need to move this to P&R. It'll get some real legs over there.
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Old 03-01-11, 10:54 PM   #17
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Guess my mother was right. She used to often say "You don't always make money in real estate."

This is almost like the global warming argument. The weather is changing there must be something wrong. Hey neighborhoods are constantly changing. The current "crisis" has just made it more dramatic. If you want a neighborhood that never changes, I would suggest maybe a yurt in the middle of the boondocks.
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Old 03-01-11, 11:20 PM   #18
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Bank forecloses, leaves the houses empty and unmonitored. Meth labs move in. Yup, neighborhood changes.
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Old 03-02-11, 12:48 AM   #19
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For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.
I find it interesting that the minute someone calls attention to the downside of "diversity", someone else dismisses them as a "racist". Wouldn't it better serve everyone's interests if these issue could be discussed in light of facts without character attacks?

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Only one foreclosure in the area that I'm aware of, though, and the neighborhood hasn't changed. I'd really like to see some changes and more diversity, in fact. It's an all-white, upper middle class Republican neighborhood, full of professional people with a sprinkling of "old-time Nevadans" who also trend to an unconsidered kind of conservatism. The neighborhood parties are sort of tedious.
You are indeed fortunate. Your neighborhood, by your own accounting, has seen a dramatic decrease in property values but little else.

The neighborhood I live in (I've been here 16 years) has seen a similar dive in real estate prices, and it has driven a significant change in it's character. There've been 77 foreclosures in a subdivision of 221 single family homes, there has been a marked increase in "diversity", and the socio-economic/cultural character of the subdivision has taken a decided downturn. On what do I base that statement? Police calls to the area have gone up by 18% over the past 5 years with no corresponding increased in population density. It's a matter of public record. In the past 2 years, 3 homes became drug labs, 2 of which (supposedly unoccupied) burned to the ground, damaging one nearby residence. The third one was the target of a police action that had the rest of us ordered to "shelter in place" for 10 hours. Also a matter of public record. There is obvious gang, drug, and prostitution activity going on in broad day light that was never present 6 years ago, hence the rise in police calls. Oh, and just last year, we had two out-and-out gun fights in the park across the street from my home. All well documented by local LE.

Now, it certainly cannot stated with any degree of certainty that there's a cause and effect relationship between the clear change in socio-economic profile in my neighborhood and these events, but I don't think their temporal proximity can be easily dismissed as coincidence. I think the possibility that they are related needs to be honestly explored so that if a relationship is found, a candid discussion of possible reasons and remedies can take place. Nor am I clear about how much of a factor the housing market slump is in this dynamic. After all, mine is just one of many neighborhoods that's been impacted. But the subject needs more than name-calling if I'm ever going to be able to ride in this neighborhood again without packing personal defense equipment.

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Old 03-02-11, 04:48 AM   #20
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For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.
I have never seen a box marked "inner city poor people" under race on anything.

Nowhere did the OP say anything about race.
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Old 03-02-11, 04:52 AM   #21
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For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.
Racism? In the social housing I've seen the disrespect for others isn't isolated to any one particular race.
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Old 03-02-11, 05:24 AM   #22
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For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.
I think you need to do the same. He said "inner city poor people" you read that as "black/brown/purple people", which in and of itself points to the fact that you either 1) don't believe there to be white people in the inner city or 2) you don't believe that poor white people meet this description but poor people of a non-white background do. From my personal experience its generally the poor white people that show a lack of respect for others, then again I'm more familiar with "trailer trash" than "ghetto trash".



On Topic: In the area I live most of the foreclosures were actually in the lower income areas and not the suburbs. This has lead to a shortage of apartments and a lot of empty homes in "bad" neighborhoods that people don't want to move into. but for the most part the good neighborhoods are still good and the bad neighborhoods are either still bad or have improved slightly due to a decrease in the neighborhoods population.

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Old 03-02-11, 05:59 AM   #23
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On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.

Anyone here have any experience?
Is "respect" really what the complaint is?
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Old 03-02-11, 06:29 AM   #24
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I find it interesting that the minute someone calls attention to the downside of "diversity", someone else dismisses them as a "racist". Wouldn't it better serve everyone's interests if these issue could be discussed in light of facts without character attacks?



You are indeed fortunate. Your neighborhood, by your own accounting, has seen a dramatic decrease in property values but little else.

The neighborhood I live in (I've been here 16 years) has seen a similar dive in real estate prices, and it has driven a significant change in it's character. There've been 77 foreclosures in a subdivision of 221 single family homes, there has been a marked increase in "diversity", and the socio-economic/cultural character of the subdivision has taken a decided downturn. On what do I base that statement? Police calls to the area have gone up by 18% over the past 5 years with no corresponding increased in population density. It's a matter of public record. In the past 2 years, 3 homes became drug labs, 2 of which (supposedly unoccupied) burned to the ground, damaging one nearby residence. The third one was the target of a police action that had the rest of us ordered to "shelter in place" for 10 hours. Also a matter of public record. There is obvious gang, drug, and prostitution activity going on in broad day light that was never present 6 years ago, hence the rise in police calls. Oh, and just last year, we had two out-and-out gun fights in the park across the street from my home. All well documented by local LE.

Now, it certainly cannot stated with any degree of certainty that there's a cause and effect relationship between the clear change in socio-economic profile in my neighborhood and these events, but I don't think their temporal proximity can be easily dismissed as coincidence. I think the possibility that they are related needs to be honestly explored so that if a relationship is found, a candid discussion of possible reasons and remedies can take place. Nor am I clear about how much of a factor the housing market slump is in this dynamic. After all, mine is just one of many neighborhoods that's been impacted. But the subject needs more than name-calling if I'm ever going to be able to ride in this neighborhood again without packing personal defense equipment.

-Bert
wow, that sucks
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Old 03-02-11, 09:12 AM   #25
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^^ Yeah, but it's home, and with me nearing retirement and my wife already on SS disability, relocation really isn't an option. We do have a neighborhood association of sorts that does what it can to support people who are trying to keep the place decent and deal with those who aren't. Local LE has been cooperative and as helpful as possible despite suffering through budget driven staff reductions too.

It's just a bit annoying to have to drive a car to get to places where bicycling isn't a "contact sport" in order to have a nice ride. Not annoying enough to keep me off the bike, though...
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