Older Car Drivers
03-02-11, 07:28 PM
#26
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??This comes up every once in awhile. Meanwhile there is no evidence that older folks are involved in more accidents where they are at fault. There is lots of evidence that once they are involved they are more likely to be injured or killed. The latter statistics are often misused in an attempt to prove the former point. Or, like what happened in one city, the local police put a special emphasis on detecting and apprehending senior drivers "for their own and community safety". Of course the biased statistics they then used to justify restricting older drivers followed.
By your argument people ought to be taken off bicycles as well. After all they could ride into other cyclists or cause accidents. Come to think of it I've had more problems with older bicycle riders than with older car drivers. Hmmm
03-02-11, 07:31 PM
#27
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My mother drove into her 80s, until we convinced her that it was unsafe. Her peripheral vision wasn't good, her reactions were slow, and her cognitive abilities were diminished. A bad recipe for the other people with whom she shared the road.
I'm sad for that JHU student and his family. I hope that he pulls through...
I'm also sad (not angry) for the driver and her family, who didn't have the courage to confront this sooner, and now a young man's life has been affected.
I'm sad for that JHU student and his family. I hope that he pulls through...
I'm also sad (not angry) for the driver and her family, who didn't have the courage to confront this sooner, and now a young man's life has been affected.
03-02-11, 07:33 PM
#28
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How about road testing everyone every ten years, regardless of age?
I've always felt that the written test should include some basic mechanics and physics as it applies to driving a car. Nothing heavy duty, just some questions about braking and motion.
How are driving road tests conducted in Germany and Holland?
I've always felt that the written test should include some basic mechanics and physics as it applies to driving a car. Nothing heavy duty, just some questions about braking and motion.
How are driving road tests conducted in Germany and Holland?
03-02-11, 07:51 PM
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Not enough information about the motorist or the circumstances of the accident in the article linked to in the first post.
We don't know that the driver's age or physical/mental abilities contributed to the accident.
We don't know that the driver's age or physical/mental abilities contributed to the accident.
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03-02-11, 07:56 PM
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My mother is 90 [going on 65 imo] and still drives. I'm a really cr@ppy passenger but I'll ride with her. She won't drive at night or in sketchy conditions, realizes her reactions and abilities are not what they use to be and drives accordingly and in a reasonable environment. Is she as safe on the road as some? No. Is she safer on the road then may younger are. Yes.
The up side is that if we can all the crappy drivers they can rely on the awesome nation wide public transportation system this country offers..........not.
Per executing texting/cell phone use drivers: Makes sense in many locations others....not so much. I'm pretty sure anyone can safely talk on a cell phone while driving Rt. 80 in Nebraska......
Now the driver fooling with their kids in the back seat should be punishable by death imo. But then you know me, I hate kids.
The up side is that if we can all the crappy drivers they can rely on the awesome nation wide public transportation system this country offers..........not.
Per executing texting/cell phone use drivers: Makes sense in many locations others....not so much. I'm pretty sure anyone can safely talk on a cell phone while driving Rt. 80 in Nebraska......
Now the driver fooling with their kids in the back seat should be punishable by death imo. But then you know me, I hate kids.
03-02-11, 08:23 PM
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You are attacking the wrong villain. Older drivers cause nowhere near the amount of deaths and injuries as drunk drivers. How about as much enthusiasm (or more) for an alcohol interlock on ALL cars?
We would save many more lives.
That said, I have no opposition to testing older drivers more, AS LONG AS ALL DRIVERS ARE TESTED MORE.
We would save many more lives.
That said, I have no opposition to testing older drivers more, AS LONG AS ALL DRIVERS ARE TESTED MORE.
03-02-11, 08:46 PM
#32
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Testing only older drivers?
Congratulations, you've found one of my buttons!!
I believe we need to retest every driver every time they renew their license, at least. Just think of the added revenue each state will gain (or loose due to inefficient management of license and testing bureau). let's don't just focus on the older generation.
I also believe we need to punish cell phone chatting and texting drivers by confiscating their phone, permanently.
And while we're at it....no more revoking ones driver's license for DWI and other horrific offences without also confiscating their vehicle, permanently. In my part of the world, the only time one seems to need a license is to show to the officer if one happens to stop you. We get way too many situations where serious accidents are caused by unlicensed drivers with a list violations as long as your arm.
It's way past time that we get serious about hi-way safety. Our current system is a joke!!
Congratulations, you've found one of my buttons!!
I believe we need to retest every driver every time they renew their license, at least. Just think of the added revenue each state will gain (or loose due to inefficient management of license and testing bureau). let's don't just focus on the older generation.
I also believe we need to punish cell phone chatting and texting drivers by confiscating their phone, permanently.
And while we're at it....no more revoking ones driver's license for DWI and other horrific offences without also confiscating their vehicle, permanently. In my part of the world, the only time one seems to need a license is to show to the officer if one happens to stop you. We get way too many situations where serious accidents are caused by unlicensed drivers with a list violations as long as your arm.
It's way past time that we get serious about hi-way safety. Our current system is a joke!!
Example. If I give somebody constructive criticism such as "you smell bad", and the person comes back at me, and says "well you don't smell so go yourself".. that is DEFENSE..
03-02-11, 08:47 PM
#33
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My mother is 90 [going on 65 imo] and still drives. I'm a really cr@ppy passenger but I'll ride with her. She won't drive at night or in sketchy conditions, realizes her reactions and abilities are not what they use to be and drives accordingly and in a reasonable environment. Is she as safe on the road as some? No. Is she safer on the road then may younger are. Yes.
The up side is that if we can all the crappy drivers they can rely on the awesome nation wide public transportation system this country offers..........not.
Per executing texting/cell phone use drivers: Makes sense in many locations others....not so much. I'm pretty sure anyone can safely talk on a cell phone while driving Rt. 80 in Nebraska......
Now the driver fooling with their kids in the back seat should be punishable by death imo. But then you know me, I hate kids.
The up side is that if we can all the crappy drivers they can rely on the awesome nation wide public transportation system this country offers..........not.
Per executing texting/cell phone use drivers: Makes sense in many locations others....not so much. I'm pretty sure anyone can safely talk on a cell phone while driving Rt. 80 in Nebraska......
Now the driver fooling with their kids in the back seat should be punishable by death imo. But then you know me, I hate kids.
03-02-11, 08:49 PM
#34
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This reminds me of an old Dear Abby column (or was it Ann Landers?). Anyway, everyone knew Grandpa was no longer safe behind the wheel, but no one wanted to be the one to tell him it was time to give up driving. At a family gathering, Grandpa hit put the car in drive instead of reverse. Sadly, his grandson was standing in front of his car. Grandpa's mistake cost his grandson both legs.
Elderly drivers don't make up a very high percentage of the motorists I encounter on a daily basis, but they are the majority of the motorists who put me at risk by not seeing me. By the way, I ride in a class 3 flagger's jacket, so I'm not exactly invisible. We all need a trusted friend or younger relative who will tell us when "it is time".
Elderly drivers don't make up a very high percentage of the motorists I encounter on a daily basis, but they are the majority of the motorists who put me at risk by not seeing me. By the way, I ride in a class 3 flagger's jacket, so I'm not exactly invisible. We all need a trusted friend or younger relative who will tell us when "it is time".
People that care about people tell them like it is, and that might not be what they want to hear!!!
I learned that through the length of my 70 years...
03-02-11, 08:51 PM
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A wee bit of research shows what NHTSA claims is the reason for the decline in injuries and deaths in recent years. Anyone up for looking? Sure would add something to use facts.
Mind you I am not opposed to stricter driver performance requirements and examination. Gee, learned a lot when I learned to fly and later when I learned how to drive emergency vehicles. Frankly it wouldn't hurt for everyone to have similar training. But, today, the fact is that we have many people who have minimal training driving vehicles that have inadequate visibility from them, with poor attitudes and in too many cases with no operators license.
How about some of you folks in states that have enough votes to make a difference taking up the flag for more strict license enforcement and vehicle confiscation?
Mind you I am not opposed to stricter driver performance requirements and examination. Gee, learned a lot when I learned to fly and later when I learned how to drive emergency vehicles. Frankly it wouldn't hurt for everyone to have similar training. But, today, the fact is that we have many people who have minimal training driving vehicles that have inadequate visibility from them, with poor attitudes and in too many cases with no operators license.
How about some of you folks in states that have enough votes to make a difference taking up the flag for more strict license enforcement and vehicle confiscation?
03-02-11, 08:55 PM
#36
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Good personal background and summary of the issue. I'm with you. Sure, younger drivers cause accidents by being reckless (ironic word...) but older driver cause accidents by diminishment of physical abilities, many of which can be measured or observed. Having recently had cataract surgery at age 59, I'm all for testing drivers periodically as they get older. No need to ban anyone.
So sorry about the cyclist who was injured. I really hope that he makes it.
So sorry about the cyclist who was injured. I really hope that he makes it.
03-02-11, 09:14 PM
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This one is still fresh in my mind. It was horrible. Because of this accident, they now have bollards (those metal poles that raise and lower into the ground) around farmers markets and such:
Car plows through market, killing 9
July 17, 2003
An 86-year-old man who drove his mid-size Buick through a crowded farmers' market Wednesday told police he couldn't stop and may have hit the accelerator instead of the brake, Santa Monica Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said.
Nine people were killed, including a 3-year-old girl, authorities said. The more than 54 hurt include 14 people with critical injuries, they said. Two of those critically injured are under the age of 2.
"He said that he tried to brake and he couldn't stop the vehicle," Butts said.
Police escorted the man, identified by his attorney as Russell Weller, to a local hospital where he was found to have no alcohol or psychiatric medications in his system.
Later, Weller walked out of the police station with the help of a cane and with his attorney by his side. Police released him from custody after he was interviewed by detectives. Charges could be filed at a later time, Butts said, noting that Weller is a resident of Santa Monica and does not appear to be a flight risk.
"Right now it looks as though there may be some negligence as far as his capacity to drive safely," Butts said. There was no indication that Weller intended to injure any pedestrians.
The driver's attorney, Jim Bianco, released a statement from the family late Wednesday:
"Mr. Weller and his family want to express their deepest sympathies to the victims and their families of the tragic accident earlier today. This was an unintentional and unfortunate accident. Mr. Weller is very shaken up, but his thoughts are with the victims and their families."
He declined any further statements, in light of the ongoing investigation, with which Bianco said "we are cooperating fully."
Butts said Weller drove his 1992 Buick LeSabre "at least at a moderate rate of speed" for three blocks along the market street, which was filled with pedestrians, "striking dozens of people." The car stopped only after a pedestrian was thrown into the air and landed on the windshield of the vehicle, Butts said.
The accident occurred at 1:47 p.m. (4:47 p.m. EDT), Butts said.
Butts said officers have interviewed more than 100 witnesses, who gave conflicting reports regarding the driver's demeanor at the time of the incident.
"So now we're attempting to determine whether this was a straight accident -- medically related -- criminal negligence or criminal homicide," Butts said.
One witness said: "It was like a Sherman tank barreling through, hitting everything, just going right over people.
Car plows through market, killing 9
July 17, 2003
An 86-year-old man who drove his mid-size Buick through a crowded farmers' market Wednesday told police he couldn't stop and may have hit the accelerator instead of the brake, Santa Monica Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said.
Nine people were killed, including a 3-year-old girl, authorities said. The more than 54 hurt include 14 people with critical injuries, they said. Two of those critically injured are under the age of 2.
"He said that he tried to brake and he couldn't stop the vehicle," Butts said.
Police escorted the man, identified by his attorney as Russell Weller, to a local hospital where he was found to have no alcohol or psychiatric medications in his system.
Later, Weller walked out of the police station with the help of a cane and with his attorney by his side. Police released him from custody after he was interviewed by detectives. Charges could be filed at a later time, Butts said, noting that Weller is a resident of Santa Monica and does not appear to be a flight risk.
"Right now it looks as though there may be some negligence as far as his capacity to drive safely," Butts said. There was no indication that Weller intended to injure any pedestrians.
The driver's attorney, Jim Bianco, released a statement from the family late Wednesday:
"Mr. Weller and his family want to express their deepest sympathies to the victims and their families of the tragic accident earlier today. This was an unintentional and unfortunate accident. Mr. Weller is very shaken up, but his thoughts are with the victims and their families."
He declined any further statements, in light of the ongoing investigation, with which Bianco said "we are cooperating fully."
Butts said Weller drove his 1992 Buick LeSabre "at least at a moderate rate of speed" for three blocks along the market street, which was filled with pedestrians, "striking dozens of people." The car stopped only after a pedestrian was thrown into the air and landed on the windshield of the vehicle, Butts said.
The accident occurred at 1:47 p.m. (4:47 p.m. EDT), Butts said.
Butts said officers have interviewed more than 100 witnesses, who gave conflicting reports regarding the driver's demeanor at the time of the incident.
"So now we're attempting to determine whether this was a straight accident -- medically related -- criminal negligence or criminal homicide," Butts said.
One witness said: "It was like a Sherman tank barreling through, hitting everything, just going right over people.
03-03-11, 04:01 AM
#38
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A written test for driver capability? gee.
8 hours of instruction with a sears driving instructor? gee.
No mandatory re-check every few years for driving ability? gee.
Clearly stated actuarial table data by insurance companies indicating where driver problems exist by age, sex, location etc.
Perhaps older drivers are only part of the problem.
Maybe we should pay more attention to the qualifications of every single person who takes a 3000lb guided missile onto our public roads.
And yes, I support the concept of someone taking action to remove me from the roads when it is deemed that I am no longer qualified. I'll be 65 this year.
8 hours of instruction with a sears driving instructor? gee.
No mandatory re-check every few years for driving ability? gee.
Clearly stated actuarial table data by insurance companies indicating where driver problems exist by age, sex, location etc.
Perhaps older drivers are only part of the problem.
Maybe we should pay more attention to the qualifications of every single person who takes a 3000lb guided missile onto our public roads.
And yes, I support the concept of someone taking action to remove me from the roads when it is deemed that I am no longer qualified. I'll be 65 this year.
03-03-11, 05:07 AM
#39
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We had a case here in Wisconsin where an elderly woman was driving and killed a cyclist. She had macular degeneration, and no one did a thing about taking away her license. When your license is good for ten years, you're going to have these types of problems with the elderly. My dad is 92 and my mom is 88 and we took their car away several years ago. It wasn't safe for them to be behind the wheel.
03-03-11, 05:53 AM
#40
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USA seems about average but about 3 to 4 times more dangerous than the safest countries ... UK, Sweden, Switzerland, Netherlands.
03-03-11, 10:29 AM
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I know I've become more sensitive in the last ten years or so as my miles on the bike have increased, but the current situation in the US (at least the states I drive and ride in) is headed towards a meltdown.
I'm not in favor of drunk drivers, but I see less of them than I see of drivers with cell phones glued to their ears that pay no attention to stop signs, or to what side of the road they're driving on. Most can't be bothered to turn the wheel fully when at intersections and routinely cut off oncoming traffic (cars and bikes alike).
We've become so lazy, so used to driving, that no one seems to take seriously that they pilot 4000 lb objects at 40mph (on quiet two lane roads!).
Btw, I'm not excusing the bikers either, I've seen other riders do some pretty amazing and frightening things too. We need better education for all road users.
03-03-11, 11:22 AM
#42
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I know. Warning labels on certain medications say that you shouldn't operate heavy machinery, and then they go out and drive, not realizing their car is the heavy machine they operate. It should say, do not drive under the influence of this medication. But people still will.
I've been in several motor vehicle accidents (none of them my fault). Five or six times I was rear ended by inattentive drivers who were not elderly, or by non-elderly drivers who had a poorly maintained vehicle. Florida used to have mandatory vehicle safety inspection stations as a requirement to maintain a licensed vehicle. They ended those years ago.
The only time I was in a motor vehicle accident that sent me to the hospital and totaled my truck though, was when an 84 year old man was edging out of his driveway nose first (he lived on a busy street where the speed limit was 45 mph, I was doing 40). He made eye contact with me, I was as far left as I could get in the lane, and he accidentally punched the accelerator instead of tapping on the brake and shot out right in front of me. I t-boned him right in the front quarter panel. Luckily he didn't shoot out sooner, because if I had hit him in the door panel, I might have killed him, or seriously injured him.
Every story I read down here of someone driving their car accidentally through a store or bank window from the parking lot, is an elderly person.
I've been in several motor vehicle accidents (none of them my fault). Five or six times I was rear ended by inattentive drivers who were not elderly, or by non-elderly drivers who had a poorly maintained vehicle. Florida used to have mandatory vehicle safety inspection stations as a requirement to maintain a licensed vehicle. They ended those years ago.
The only time I was in a motor vehicle accident that sent me to the hospital and totaled my truck though, was when an 84 year old man was edging out of his driveway nose first (he lived on a busy street where the speed limit was 45 mph, I was doing 40). He made eye contact with me, I was as far left as I could get in the lane, and he accidentally punched the accelerator instead of tapping on the brake and shot out right in front of me. I t-boned him right in the front quarter panel. Luckily he didn't shoot out sooner, because if I had hit him in the door panel, I might have killed him, or seriously injured him.
Every story I read down here of someone driving their car accidentally through a store or bank window from the parking lot, is an elderly person.
03-03-11, 08:12 PM
#43
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I agree also with more frequent testing; the last time I renewed my DL, it was good for 7 years, up from the 4 it's been my whole 'driving' life. I don't agree with that. (Since I'm car-free, I maintain the DL only as ID and backup.)
When I was in Germany (US Army), we were tested on a few things that I believe should be done universally -- notably, peripheral vision and reflexes! Physical skills and capabilities are crucial to driving, and should be quantified in tests like those.
(FWIW, my 1st wife & I went through the tests at the same time -- my reaction time was measured at .43 seconds, hers at .25; my peripheral vision was 179 degrees, hers 172.)
When I was in Germany (US Army), we were tested on a few things that I believe should be done universally -- notably, peripheral vision and reflexes! Physical skills and capabilities are crucial to driving, and should be quantified in tests like those.
(FWIW, my 1st wife & I went through the tests at the same time -- my reaction time was measured at .43 seconds, hers at .25; my peripheral vision was 179 degrees, hers 172.)
03-03-11, 08:19 PM
#44
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In Florida, we've been able to renew our licenses online every 7 years, and they just reuse the same photo. So until recently, i was still using the photo taken in 1997 when I moved back to Florida. I finally went in and had a new photo taken because the airport people were giving me grief that I didn't look like the guy in the photo.
Meanwhile, all I had to do to get a new license was to show a whole bunch of documentation that proved I'm a legal resident and most likely not a terrorist. Now y'all come on down to Florida and drive however ya feel like it. Florida where every driver is trained to drive, based on their country of origin.
Meanwhile, all I had to do to get a new license was to show a whole bunch of documentation that proved I'm a legal resident and most likely not a terrorist. Now y'all come on down to Florida and drive however ya feel like it. Florida where every driver is trained to drive, based on their country of origin.
03-04-11, 03:54 AM
#45
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Making generalizations about drivers based on age, or virtually any other criteria you chose will however usually prove to be more about steriotypes than fact.
Last edited by maddmaxx; 03-04-11 at 03:57 AM.
03-04-11, 04:10 PM
#47
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A few things leap to mind. I say this as a 65 year old who rode his Ducati on 1,000 mi. day last May and owns a totally tricked out Subaru RS. There are definitely older drivers who should be, at the least, re-tested. OTOH, there are 25 year old's who can't drive worth **** and are a danger every day. Anyone caught texting should have their license suspended for a month on the first offense. Next time it's a year and so on. When you consider the number of dangerous older drivers and the number of texters it's no contest IMO. I have serious concerns about DMV's doing more testing. And, given the assault on State budgets and Public Employees I highly doubt any State is going to fund an additional initiative. Then there's the fact that it's highly unlikely that an incompetent driver won't be seen by a relative, pedestrian and/or police officer. All in all additional government regulation just may be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. Just sayin'.
03-04-11, 04:30 PM
#48
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Hell, I'm only 65 but after my cataract surgery my eyes are so dry at times I only see a blur. Do I drive? Yes, but only in bad weather when I can't bike and then only a few blocks IN TOWN ! If my eyes get much worse I'll stop driving completely
The rest/most of the time my wife drives or I bike.
The rest/most of the time my wife drives or I bike.
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My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
Last edited by Nightshade; 03-04-11 at 04:33 PM.
03-04-11, 04:48 PM
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Looks like the numbers are going down. Here is data through 2008 on deaths when there were 37,261 fatalities:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s1104.pdf
And here is the data on injuries through 2008 when there were 2,346,000 injured:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s1105.pdf
https://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s1104.pdf
And here is the data on injuries through 2008 when there were 2,346,000 injured:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s1105.pdf
03-04-11, 05:00 PM
#50
Motorcycle RoadRacer
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A few things leap to mind. I say this as a 65 year old who rode his Ducati on 1,000 mi. day last May and owns a totally tricked out Subaru RS. There are definitely older drivers who should be, at the least, re-tested. OTOH, there are 25 year old's who can't drive worth **** and are a danger every day. Anyone caught texting should have their license suspended for a month on the first offense. Next time it's a year and so on. When you consider the number of dangerous older drivers and the number of texters it's no contest IMO. I have serious concerns about DMV's doing more testing. And, given the assault on State budgets and Public Employees I highly doubt any State is going to fund an additional initiative. Then there's the fact that it's highly unlikely that an incompetent driver won't be seen by a relative, pedestrian and/or police officer. All in all additional government regulation just may be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. Just sayin'.
Your points are better than valid..There are some of us in the older bracket that are sharper more alert then peeps 30 to 40 years younger. However it is known fact, that are reflexes start slowing down at a certain age. We as are real slow to REGULATE ourselves..
We need more regulation for older drivers. More stricter, and more regular testing.
Our loves one will love us for it too.
Again, nice ride...
