Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 118
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    My Bikes
    2009 Chris Boedeker custom, 1988 Tommasini Prestige, 2007 Bill Davidson custom, 1985 Univega Gran Turismo; 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper
    Posts
    6,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Bicycling Magazine finally stops hoping for a miracle: "Lance doped."

    Bicycling Magazine yesterday posted on their website a preview of the May issue, in which their senior editor, Bill Strickland, writes that he is finally willing to concede that Lance is guilty of the doping allegations made against him.

    This is the link to the story...

    http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cy...dgame?page=0,3

    ...but if you're really interested you should find the link on the page that invites you to register and download the whole package of stories and accompanying charts and sidebar stories all about Lance and doping (it's a big PDF file, a reprint of the layout that will be in the magazine).

    Whether you are a Lance fan or opponent, it's an interesting moment in the Lance saga. Strickland has covered Lance since the beginning, and wrote a book about him, "Tour de Lance," about Lance's comeback. I think Strickland has always been considered one of Lance's defenders and true believers, and Bicycling has certainly done its bit over the years in drafting off the Lance phenomenon.

    The noteworthy thing about the article is not that there is anything new in it -- it's just the fact that Strickland wrote it, and Bicycling is going with this as their May cover story.

    Interestingly, Strickland is *extremely* guarded about what made him change his mind. He hints, in this very obscurely worded passage, that someone on the inside confessed:

    "I don't know, if you're not already there, what might lead you to believe that Lance Armstrong doped. It wasn't Floyd Landis for me, or the federal investigation, or any public revelation. My catalyst was another one of those statements that was never said by someone I never talked with. It was not from one of Armstrong's opponents. It was not from anyone who will gain any clemency by affirming it under oath.

    "It was an admission that doping had occurred, one disguised so it could assume innocence but unmistakable to me in meaning. The moment I received it felt strangely like a relief, and after all these years unreal and apart from what was happening, like those odd instants that sometimes immediately follow the death of someone you love, when grief is eclipsed by gratitude that the suffering has ended."

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,793
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As that website is temporarily down (probably overloaded), I can't get to the details of it right now. But it sounds like a vindication for a certain David Walsh. (His other book, "From Lance to Landis", pretty much disabused me of any last vestiges of doubt.)

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They want to sell magazines. There have been several insiders (team members and folks who worked for him) that charged Armstrong used drugs. They all lost in court. The French lab and the overseeing body have charged Armstrong on at least two occasions as I remember. They had lab evidence. They lost in court due to shoddy testing procedures.

    There's an anti Armstrong industry out there.

    Al

  4. #4
    '47
    '47 is offline
    Senior Member '47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bill Strickland would have more clout with me were his magazine more than just an unofficial organ for the commercial interests of the cycling industry. Mostly it's "voice" is given over to stimulating us to buy shiny new products. Until actual evidence that passes critical scrutiny-- I think it's called a "trial"-- is made available to the public, anyone, even that juicy target Lance, is innocent. Given the number of critics snapping at his heels, if anything concrete is out there, it will be proudly marched through the streets of public opinion. A sad day.

  5. #5
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,445
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Innocent in court yes, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. The two are very different. People who are known to have committed prosecutable offenses are not prosecuted for those offenses every day, because the case is insufficient, the prosecuter had too much to lose going after them, etc. etc. Again, that doesn't mean, nor certainly prove, that they didn't commit the prosecutable offense. It just means they weren't prosecuted, or the prosecution failed, which can happen for a variety of reasons.

    In some people's world, being convicted of a crime means the person did it; not being convicted means they didn't. My world recognizes the many factors influencing these decisions, and the fact that humans make errors. I suspect yours does as well, but that you are just not applying it to this situation, because doing so wouldn't suit your purpose.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  6. #6
    Senior Member NealH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Triangle, NC
    My Bikes
    S-Works Tarmac
    Posts
    1,368
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I suspect if you surf the web you will find quite a few that think Lance doped. So good ole Bill may not be the only one to hop on the anti Armstrong bandwagon. I'm just glad he won 7 crowns. And I have too many interesting things to do, and too many miles to put on my bike than to read a bunch of data that I don't have any interest in. Anyway, heresay information never stands up in court, and it shouldn't.

    A "disguised" admission of guilt? Can you imagine convicting someone of a crime based on a "disguised" admission of guilt from a secretive informer?

    I'm afraid its going to take evidence, something they have been unsuccessfully trying to find, concoct or fabricate for years now.

  7. #7
    '47
    '47 is offline
    Senior Member '47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You might be right, TallRider. Therefore I'm suggesting that all trials be conducted a second time just to make sure the not-convicted really really didn't didn't do it. To be really really really sure, we could go for a 3rd trial-- just to be a little more cetain. Then again, a 4th trial might not be a bad idea either.

    I truly agree that we should be skeptical about a judicial system that's shot through with compromises, shady deals, co-options, and downright corruption. But, what ya gonna do..........after the trial (or trials), we'll all return to those original notions we had-- unless there's a red-hot, smoking ***-- make that hypodermic.

    Imagine........Lance Armstrong as the new O.J. !!

  8. #8
    Senior Member RavingManiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Maine
    My Bikes
    90 Raleigh Chill MTB, 92 Trek 1200, 2004 Trek 2300, 67 Sports, 70 Sports, 71 Philips, Lotus Challenger, 74 Super Course, Univega Gran Tourismo, Nishiki Seral
    Posts
    549
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That "obscurely worded passage" is beyond my reading comprehension skills. Just what did he say, can someone translate that?

  9. #9
    Badger Biker ctyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Beloit, Wisconsin
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Saeco CAD-3, Surly Cross Check
    Posts
    974
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by '47 View Post
    Bill Strickland would have more clout with me were his magazine more than just an unofficial organ for the commercial interests of the cycling industry. Mostly it's "voice" is given over to stimulating us to buy shiny new products. Until actual evidence that passes critical scrutiny-- I think it's called a "trial"-- is made available to the public, anyone, even that juicy target Lance, is innocent. Given the number of critics snapping at his heels, if anything concrete is out there, it will be proudly marched through the streets of public opinion. A sad day.
    I agree. Bicycling Magazine is a joke. All they want to do is sell magazines. I have found it useless for any real information about cycling. I get more ad better information here.
    It's a good day to ride.
    --------------------------
    Cannondale Saeco CAD3
    Specialized Sirrus Elite
    Surly Long Haul Trucker
    Surly Cross Check

  10. #10
    Century bound Phil85207's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mesa Arizona
    My Bikes
    Felt AR4 and Cannondale hybrid
    Posts
    2,249
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I for one am tired of the whole thing.
    Chief Executive In Charge Of Diddly Squat.

    Taking on a long hill is like fighting a Gorilla. You don't stop when you are tired, You stop when the Gorilla is tired.

    Now ridding a
    Felt AR4 with Mavic Super light Premium wheels
    Cannonade Hybrid

    If you lack the courage to start, you have already finished.

    In God we trust

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    My Bikes
    2009 Chris Boedeker custom, 1988 Tommasini Prestige, 2007 Bill Davidson custom, 1985 Univega Gran Turismo; 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper
    Posts
    6,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RavingManiac View Post
    That "obscurely worded passage" is beyond my reading comprehension skills. Just what did he say, can someone translate that?
    Translation:

    "Somebody in a position to know the truth told me he was a doper -- but the person who told me will never, ever admit he told me."

  12. #12
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have no idea if Lance did or didn't Dope and after reading the Story of the Tour De France I am not sure any racer doesn't dope. That being said with all of the comprehensive tests they have run on Lance after each and every race I wonder what good the tests are if a person is guilty even after passing them?

    Landis dropped a dime “after” he was tagged for failing a test for doping. Contador was allowed to continue racing even “after” testing positive using the same battery of tests that have come up negative on Lance.

    There seems to be a double standard or at least a political one the runs rampant in professional cycling. The one thing that seems clear is the testing isn’t trusted by anyone. It seems the best attitude we can take is to assume if someone wins the Tour de France they must have doped period.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post

    ...but if you're really interested you should find the link on the page that invites you to register and download the whole package of stories and accompanying charts and sidebar stories all about Lance and doping (it's a big PDF file, a reprint of the layout that will be in the magazine).


    Whether you are a Lance fan or opponent, it's an interesting moment in the Lance saga. Strickland has covered Lance since the beginning, and wrote a book about him, "Tour de Lance," about Lance's comeback.

    The noteworthy thing about the article is not that there is anything new in it -- it's just the fact that Strickland wrote it, and Bicycling is going with this as their May cover story.

    Interestingly, Strickland is *extremely* guarded about what made him change his mind. He hints, in this very obscurely worded passage, that someone on the inside confessed:
    I read the whole screed. Nothing new. What's really sad is how far rodale has dug to try anything to get sales. A company based on the idea of clean living has now debased what little name they had left to beg for money from people who will never share their core beliefs.

    They set of 10 possible "cases" against lance and all the west case stuff depends on new evidence or testimony no one has ever heard to come true and the rest, they admit, can never come true. This is really just a sad rehash of the same crap that's been floating around for 15 years. Just pathetic.

  14. #14
    Senior Member trackhub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    In a state of 5th Dimension, where size has no meaning.
    My Bikes
    Gunnar Street Dog
    Posts
    1,894
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ctyler View Post
    I agree. Bicycling Magazine is a joke. All they want to do is sell magazines. I have found it useless for any real information about cycling. I get more ad better information here.
    I must also agree. Their circulation must be dipping way down, so this is what they came up with.

    It will indeed be a sad day for cycling, if it is ever proved that Lance took performance enhancers. But, as it stands right now, there is no undeniable proof. Stating that "I heard it from someone who knows, but I can't name him, and even if I could, he can't admit how he knows", in print, in a magazine, sounds libelous. Of course, I'm no expert on that. Seriously, that's not journalism. That's urban mythology, ranking right up there with "Well I heard from someone that fast food burgers contain ground up earthworms!"

    And all that aside, I agree with Phil, above: I am tired of the whole thing.
    I thought I was suffering from depression once. Turned out, I was simply surrounded by idiots.

  15. #15
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Illinois
    My Bikes
    two '72 Motobecane Le Champions, '72 Motobecane Grand Record,'75 Motobecane Grand Jubilee (2), '86 custom-built by John Stinman (Veloce Racing, Allentown, PA), mid '80s Rodriguez tandem), several balloon tired cruisers from '40s and '50s
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The truth

    Yes, I agree with you, too. It's about time someone got to the real truth ... PHIL LEGGETT DOPES!!! Oh, that wasn't the right Phil was it? Sorry, I'll go back to my Blizzard now ...

  16. #16
    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    My Bikes
    1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
    Posts
    3,761
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Commiting a crime is not the same as violating the rules of your sport, so the standards for conviction aren't necessarily the same.

    There is a time to resign oneself
    to old age and infirmity. You first.
    My Cycling Blogspot

  17. #17
    Senior Member BigBlueToe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Central Coast, CA
    My Bikes
    Surly LHT, Specialized Rockhopper, Nashbar Touring (old), Specialized Stumpjumper (older), Nishiki Tourer (model unknown)
    Posts
    3,388
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know whether Lance doped. For me the jury is still out. I do know what I think of Bicycling magazine. It sucks. I'm guessing their marketing strategy is to appeal to people new to the sport who are all jazzed about their "new lifestyle." If they keep with cycling they soon learn that Bicycling doesn't offer much and let their subscriptions expired. New bikers take their place. Is there any other explanation for what a lousy bicycling resource it is? (It should win an award for the most, shortest, most insipid "articles" ever.)

  18. #18
    Senior Member work4bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Atlantic Beach Florida
    Posts
    606
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They all dope.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    My Bikes
    Terraferma 650b, Mondonico SL and ELOS, Masi Gran Criterium, Trek 610, Breezer Liberty, Georgena Terry Classic
    Posts
    10,978
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by trackhub View Post
    I must also agree. Their circulation must be dipping way down, so this is what they came up with.

    It will indeed be a sad day for cycling, if it is ever proved that Lance took performance enhancers. But, as it stands right now, there is no undeniable proof. Stating that "I heard it from someone who knows, but I can't name him, and even if I could, he can't admit how he knows", in print, in a magazine, sounds libelous. Of course, I'm no expert on that. Seriously, that's not journalism. That's urban mythology, ranking right up there with "Well I heard from someone that fast food burgers contain ground up earthworms!"

    And all that aside, I agree with Phil, above: I am tired of the whole thing.
    And even worse than all that, Strickland admits that the "source" did not even make a clear statement that is not open to interpretation.

    "A guy said something I think means Lance doped, but I can't get him to clarify it, and I'm sure other people will not think it means the same thing that I think it means."

    Come on!

    I'll take "planing," tire pressure, antiquarianism, neat-looking canvas bags, and expensive French stuff any day, over that.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Middle of the road, NJ
    Posts
    2,122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil85207 View Post
    I for one am tired of the whole thing.
    +1

  21. #21
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    23,577
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Innocent in court yes, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.
    There is no "Innocent" in court. There is only "Not guilty." To me the difference is significant.

  22. #22
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Milledgeville, Georgia
    My Bikes
    2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2014 Specialized Crux EVO Carbon Disc, 2012 Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, 2011 Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert Compact, 2009 Salsa Casseroll, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB
    Posts
    12,713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Interesting article. I'm not sure what did or did not happen, but I like to read what people with various perspectives have to say about the subject. I try not to be so emotionally invested in one side or the other of a story that I can't accept that someone could have an opinion different than what I would hope to be true.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    My Bikes
    2009 Chris Boedeker custom, 1988 Tommasini Prestige, 2007 Bill Davidson custom, 1985 Univega Gran Turismo; 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper
    Posts
    6,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    Interesting article. I'm not sure what did or did not happen, but I like to read what people with various perspectives have to say about the subject. I try not to be so emotionally invested in one side or the other of a story that I can't accept that someone could have an opinion different than what I would hope to be true.
    That was my reaction. It was really a first-person story by Strickland about "his" struggles to figure out what to think about Armstrong.

    I had 3 different conflicting reactions:

    1. Too much "navel gazing" by a magazine editor for me. You're paid to come up with a story and point of view, not discuss your struggles with me.

    2. Seems very cynical. Your magazine tirelessly promoted the Armstrong brand (and Carmichael Training Systems) for years; you personally wrote a book about his comeback; you squeezed every last drop out of the Armstrong phenomenon. All along, you knew what was going on in the peloton, but you didn't "turn" until he was finally retired.

    3. This story might be a precursor to a confession, plea bargain or whatever. As close as Bicycling and Strickland were to the Armstrong machine, I just can't imagine them taking the risk of going with this story as a cover story unless it was "blessed" by an insider.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pearland, Texas
    My Bikes
    Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    There is no "Innocent" in court. There is only "Not guilty." To me the difference is significant.
    An oft forgotten FACT.

    I too am tired of the did/didn't contoversy.

    Brad

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    On yer left
    Posts
    1,649
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Whenever the media attacks something or someone near and dear to the diehard fan, the standard knee-jerk reaction is to attack the source. This happens in politics, religion, sports, blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. As long as there is reasonable doubt about any topic, the truth will always be an unreachable goal.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •