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Old 05-13-11, 08:12 PM   #1
67walkon
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Chain question

I've got a Shimano 105 Triple chain ring. I ordered a Dura-Ace chain, CN-7901. It was on sale. I noticed it was directional and got it on correctly. It makes a little noise my old chain didn't, so I checked it out a little.

Shimano says the chain is "for double chainring only". I wish Nashbar had told me that!

But anyway, has anyone had any experience with using one of these chains on a triple? I can't figure out why it wouldn't work just fine.

I put it on tonight and will do 40 or so miles tomorrow. It will be a long walk home if it goes badly!
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Old 05-13-11, 08:23 PM   #2
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My reply to your question on BikeJournal went something like this:

This same question came up in a thread on the Road Bike Review forums this week.

It seems the fancy new chains are not recommended for triples.



One respondent said, "I understand Shimano says that the 5701 chain is 'not flexible enough for the severe chainline angles possible with a triple.' But that's just hearsay."

That could possibly be the source of your extra noise.

Another respondent wrote

Quote:
Ok, so I called Shimano tech support today and found out the CS-5701 chain, the one I bought, will not work with a triple crankset ( or will not work properly) but the CS-5703 or the older CS-5600 will work just fine. I've traded the 5701 for a 5600 in hopes that all will be ok after install over the weekend. If I have any issues I'll let you know. I looked at the packaging of the 6700 10s chain and it also said it was double crankset specific. From what I gather, the new 10s chains have to be of the 03 series not 01 for a triple setup, be it 5700 or 6700. If you look at the 01 series chains the side plates have a slot in them where the 03 series side plates are solid. Best I can figure is that the 03 series are stiffer and can handle the extremes of a 10s cassette. We'll see.
As always, for every opinion, there's an equal and opposite opinion. One says it's too stiff, the other says it's not stiff enough.

FWIW, I've been running KMC chains on my 5600 10-speed triple for years now. They're quiet, shift flawlessly, and seem to last a bit longer. Best of all, where I buy them, they're about half the price of Shimanos. My preferred model is the KMC X10.93, which is a half-nickel plated one. It's a bit prettier than the plain Jane DX-10SC, and cheaper than the full-nickel plated one.
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Old 05-13-11, 08:29 PM   #3
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I have a triple 10 speed, and use KMC chains. I can cross chain to the max with no problems.
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Old 05-13-11, 08:46 PM   #4
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FWIW, my experience with KMC has been really good too.
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Old 05-14-11, 12:42 AM   #5
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I never realised there were double and triple chains so you are probably not alone in buying the wrong chain. But looking at it logically- I can see how the problem can be overcome if it is Flexibility of the chain that is the problem. It is a practice I have been using for many years in any case and that is to "Try" and keep the chain line between crank and cassette as straight as possible. I use double and triples and I have noticed on the double that If I go Large chain ring to Large sprocket on the cassette- Then I do get some chain noise. This is normally front derailler rub but the noise-Annoys. So If I amd getting near Large to large- I change to the small chainring and to a smaller Cassette sprocket. I used to check this by looking at the chain line but now do it by sound of the Derrailler rub. This can also be the other way round by getting Small to Small. But by looking at the chain line- I can comfirm that the Chain is the miscreant causing the noise. There is a term for running Small to Small or Large to Large and that is called Crosschaining.

Crosschaining used to be one of the "No-Nos" when cycling and haven't heard it mentioned for years. In fact looking at other bikes in front of me-Crosschaining seems to be an accepted way of using the gears. Particularly on hills when the rider can't be bothered to change on the front and I put myself in that category. However on a triple- Crosschaining can be a bit more problematical and that can be with any chain. If you are in the small chainring and have possibly changed to say a 28t ring- Then running small to small and the chain can rub across the teeth of the middle ring.

So my suggestion is to think about crosschaining. If in the Large ring- only use the 5 smallest sprockets on the cassette. Middle and only use the middle 6 and small ring- only use the largest 5 rings. Look at the Chain line in these rings and you will see what I mean.

There may be some other factor with these Double chains being run on a triple- but if it is flexibility of the chain that is the problem-It can be overcome.
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Old 05-14-11, 09:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
Crosschaining used to be one of the "No-Nos" when cycling and haven't heard it mentioned for years. In fact looking at other bikes in front of me-Crosschaining seems to be an accepted way of using the gears. Particularly on hills when the rider can't be bothered to change on the front and I put myself in that category.
Maybe to some, but I am still firmly in the camp of thinking the rise of cross-chaining is a sign of the decline of civilization. Is nothing sacred anymore? Come on, people. Show a little self discipline! I feel that my use of big-big or small-small combinations would reflect negatively on my parents.

(sort of)
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Old 05-14-11, 11:24 AM   #7
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Funnily enough I was visually checking my chain line on the ride this morning and I am OK. But we did pass a few riders on the route-And had quite afew pass us. Crosschaining is alive and well and being used by all the best riders (Visually) with all the right gear and bikes.

Wonder how often they change chains and Chain rings?
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Old 05-14-11, 12:34 PM   #8
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Maybe the chains for triples are slightly narrower? I had that problem with a 10 speed front dr and a 9 speed chain. Everything worked well but had slight noise. switched to a 10 speed chain and the noise went away.

Last edited by crazyb; 05-14-11 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 05-14-11, 04:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
Funnily enough I was visually checking my chain line on the ride this morning and I am OK. But we did pass a few riders on the route-And had quite afew pass us. Crosschaining is alive and well and being used by all the best riders (Visually) with all the right gear and bikes.

Wonder how often they change chains and Chain rings?
This, to me, is the critical point. The cross chaining might not appear to be an issue, but it increases wear on the outsides of the teeth on the chainrings, and I suppose, leads to wear on the points as well. By comparison, the wear on the cogset teeth is likely to be lesser, because the derailleur takes care of chainline getting into the cassette. However, there is then the question of wear on the jockey pulleys on the derailleur.

Personally, I think it's just lazy or uneducated riding practice to ride with excessively crossed chainlines.

There also needs to be absolute certainty that the chain is the correct length or slightly longer because if it is too short, and the big-big combination is selected, the chain will lock up, bringing the rider to a screeching halt. I have seen this happen several times. It's entertaining in its own way, as the culprit rider searches for the cause in total bewilderment.

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Maybe the chains for triples are slightly narrower? I had that problem with a 10 speed front dr and a 9 speed chain. Everything worked well but had slight noise. switched to a 10 speed chain and the noise went away.
I think you will find the 10sp chains are indeed narrower compared with 9sp, but I don't think there is a difference in width within the 10sp triples and doubles.

The difference between chains may well be in their stiffness.

Interestingly, there have been several threads in the Road forum (you know, the one few of you go into because you are afraid) that have discussed a batch of 6700 Shimano chains that ended up with cracking and breaking sideplates (some with dire damage to derailleurs and hangers).

Evidently, Shimano recognised this and brought out another replacement batch with the designation 6701. It's interesting that Shimano has eliminated the 6700 chain from its tech table as posted by tsl.

One of the threads with a detailed photographs, is here (if you dare):

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...the-difference

For me, KMC chains rule. Having said that, I picked up cheaply a couple of Shimano 6600 10sp chains recently for my Ti build so I am fairly confident I am safe from cracking sideplates. However, I refuse to use the Shimano pin, so acquired some connector links as well.
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Old 05-14-11, 07:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Maybe to some, but I am still firmly in the camp of thinking the rise of cross-chaining is a sign of the decline of civilization. Is nothing sacred anymore? Come on, people. Show a little self discipline! I feel that my use of big-big or small-small combinations would reflect negatively on my parents.

(sort of)
Totally agree. It is shameful, uncivilized, un-American, unmanly, unacceptable. And dishonorable. (If you are a woman I guess it is probably unwomanly too.)
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Old 05-14-11, 09:42 PM   #11
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Totally agree. It is shameful, uncivilized, un-American, unmanly, unacceptable. And dishonorable. (If you are a woman I guess it is probably unwomanly too.)
And I'm pretty sure it harms the troops.
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Old 05-14-11, 09:54 PM   #12
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For my last new chain, I switched from KMC to a 7901, just to try it out. Standard double. The 7901, with the weight saving slots, requires much more frequent lube to keep it quiet. As in, I've started lubing between almost every ride of any length.
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