BUSTED! Lance Armstrong cheated and now us old guys don't look so feeble
05-21-11, 04:43 AM
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It is a question. Perhaps not the one you want to answer, but it's the question I've asked.
05-21-11, 05:12 AM
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Just remember that everyone who gets caught in a doping test has passed many such tests while doping. There is a fine art to hiding the presence of doping from the tests. Not having tested positive means much in a court of law, but it does not really answer the "what really happened?" question.
Having all these accusers does not prove that LA doped, but never having tested positive does not prove that he didn't. The fact that his accusers lied about doping when they were caught does not prove that they are lying when they later confess. The truth is hard to know and is clouded by what we want to believe.
I have been a Lance fan since he first turned pro and long before his bout with cancer and his TdF victories. As a cancer survivor I was inspired by his victory over cancer, his success afterwards and the important work he has done to help people battling cancer. I don't know if he doped or not. I would like to think that he didn't, but I'm not betting on it.
Having all these accusers does not prove that LA doped, but never having tested positive does not prove that he didn't. The fact that his accusers lied about doping when they were caught does not prove that they are lying when they later confess. The truth is hard to know and is clouded by what we want to believe.
I have been a Lance fan since he first turned pro and long before his bout with cancer and his TdF victories. As a cancer survivor I was inspired by his victory over cancer, his success afterwards and the important work he has done to help people battling cancer. I don't know if he doped or not. I would like to think that he didn't, but I'm not betting on it.
05-21-11, 05:16 AM
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[QUOTE=Lightingguy;12671233]YAWN !
I'm thinking LA is probably hoping Rapture Day really happens so all these do-gooders will finally leave him alone !.
and topical too
I'm thinking LA is probably hoping Rapture Day really happens so all these do-gooders will finally leave him alone !.
and topical too
05-21-11, 06:35 AM
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Bluesdawg, I have always believed Lance, for one simple reason, he's a cancer survivor. I can't believe after battling and overcoming cancer the way he did, that he would ever put anything in his body that possibly cause it to come back. As a cancer survivor does that make sense to you? Thanks and congratulations!
Last edited by BluesDawg; 05-21-11 at 06:45 AM.
05-21-11, 06:38 AM
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If he did, it was not detected. I don't care if he did, there's not another cyclist in the world that could've come back from what he did & win the TDF & the powers that be don't like that. IAMALF
05-21-11, 06:43 AM
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George Hincapie jumps in the fray:
https://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...sterone_174866
https://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...sterone_174866
05-21-11, 06:49 AM
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This is a good documentary on drugs in sports.
Bigger,Faster,Stronger*
The side effects of being American
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs
Bigger,Faster,Stronger*
The side effects of being American
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs
05-21-11, 07:07 AM
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This is a good documentary on drugs in sports.
Bigger,Faster,Stronger*
The side effects of being American
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs
Bigger,Faster,Stronger*
The side effects of being American
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs
OUTSTANDING!
It was refreshing seeing a calm, objective analysis without the hysteria.
Last edited by Shimagnolo; 05-21-11 at 07:33 AM.
05-21-11, 07:19 AM
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Thanks for responding. What I meant was, after the h*ll he went through to beat cancer, I wouldn't think he'd ever put anything in his body that might cause him to get cancer again. I'm just thinking plain self preservation, would be why he wouldn't risk PEDs.
05-21-11, 07:34 AM
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I see that line of reasoning a lot. But one of the first things you learn after surviving cancer is that your chances of getting it again are higher than the general population. I think you could just as easily make the argument that one might calculate he had less to lose by going for success by any means necessary. I am not making that argument. I just think that being a cancer survivor can't be considered a reason why one would or would not take risks in pursuing a goal.
05-21-11, 07:41 AM
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There is plenty of evidence that a cyclist cannot be competitive w/o drug use.
05-21-11, 08:23 AM
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Everything is he said/she said. Like with anyone successful people are out to get you. It's a shame that happens.
05-21-11, 08:34 AM
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I totally agree with your second statement.
Dang.
05-21-11, 08:45 AM
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Enough said.
05-21-11, 09:23 AM
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For all you who want to say what "George Said", please try to keep up. "Related: George Hincapie via Twitter – “I can confirm to you I never spoke with “60 Minutes.” I have no idea where they got their information
Don't say George said based on what 60 minutes said George said. I think GH should sue 60 min. What a joke of journalism 60 mins is. Should be banned from TV by FTC or rightly named National Enguirer. What a bunch of idiots.
Don't say George said based on what 60 minutes said George said. I think GH should sue 60 min. What a joke of journalism 60 mins is. Should be banned from TV by FTC or rightly named National Enguirer. What a bunch of idiots.
05-21-11, 09:25 AM
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I am new to the sport and the only reason i know what road bike riding is because of Lance Armstrong! If he was not the best we would not even be hearing about this, and I for one wish all these people trying to make a name for them selves would do it on there own merit. Look maybe he did use it but where is the proof. If they could not find it in all those test let it be what good would it do for the sport except to encourage it's use! I promis you with all the stuff that is banned none of us would test clean!!!!
05-21-11, 10:07 AM
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For all you who want to say what "George Said", please try to keep up. "Related: George Hincapie via Twitter – “I can confirm to you I never spoke with “60 Minutes.” I have no idea where they got their information
Don't say George said based on what 60 minutes said George said. I think GH should sue 60 min. What a joke of journalism 60 mins is. Should be banned from TV by FTC or rightly named National Enguirer. What a bunch of idiots.
Don't say George said based on what 60 minutes said George said. I think GH should sue 60 min. What a joke of journalism 60 mins is. Should be banned from TV by FTC or rightly named National Enguirer. What a bunch of idiots.
I did not know that.
05-21-11, 11:34 AM
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"Rathergate is the scandal surrounding the 60 Minutes II story aired on CBS in 2004 about George W. Bush's National Guard service. Memos providing the basis for many of the claims in the report were supposedly created in 1973 and found in the files of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian. Bloggers and blog readers investigated the suspicious looking documents which were made available to the public on the CBS website and found them to almost certainly be poor forgeries created on a modern era word processor. Four CBS employees lost their jobs over the report. Dan Rather famously defended the report, claiming the memos might be "fake, but accurate" and later went into early retirement."
05-21-11, 12:40 PM
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Love him, hate him, put him in a league w/t Anti-Christ and every word in his book is still true. But, that's a whole other thread.
I tend to go w/t Graeme Obree quote from Wiki that says, "99% of riders a/t elite level take EPO or a similar drug. Not particularly to dope themselves but to be at the same level with others."
W/testosterone there are levels both low and high. As long as one falls between those limits one can be using a supplement like Androgel and still not test out of the norm. FL's mistake was that he stupidly took a mega shot, tested way high and was subsequently stripped. Because LA never failed a test doesn't mean he wasn't using a PED such as Androgel. It simply means he never tested outside of standardized limits. That being said even a high level of testosterone within normal boundries would give him no competitive advantage.
And HGH use is doubtful as well. His extremities have remained the same size. Anyone who's followed the BB story would know of the substantial increase in foot and head sizes he's incurred. So, whether LA used or didn't use is immaterial. He passed every test at every level according to rules set down by others than himself. The governing bodies have only themselves to blame for not making their procedures lock-tight if indeed he was guilty.
I tend to go w/t Graeme Obree quote from Wiki that says, "99% of riders a/t elite level take EPO or a similar drug. Not particularly to dope themselves but to be at the same level with others."
W/testosterone there are levels both low and high. As long as one falls between those limits one can be using a supplement like Androgel and still not test out of the norm. FL's mistake was that he stupidly took a mega shot, tested way high and was subsequently stripped. Because LA never failed a test doesn't mean he wasn't using a PED such as Androgel. It simply means he never tested outside of standardized limits. That being said even a high level of testosterone within normal boundries would give him no competitive advantage.
And HGH use is doubtful as well. His extremities have remained the same size. Anyone who's followed the BB story would know of the substantial increase in foot and head sizes he's incurred. So, whether LA used or didn't use is immaterial. He passed every test at every level according to rules set down by others than himself. The governing bodies have only themselves to blame for not making their procedures lock-tight if indeed he was guilty.