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Old 05-23-11, 06:09 PM   #1
BigBlueToe
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Sign Lance Up!

So Lance doped? So everyone had to dope so that they didn't get left in the dust by the dopers? Hmmmmmm.

I am always amazed at the performance of the riders in the Tour de France. However, I think I'd be just as amazed if they were a few seconds slower due to not doping. I'd enjoy the race just as much (probably more; I'd have that warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing I was watching a bunch of non-cheaters.) The problem is that if most of them don't dope, but a few do, those few will have an unfair advantage; hence the pressure for all of them to do it.

Here's my suggestion: give Lance immunity from prosecution if he agrees to help testers redesign their tests to make it harder to get away with doping. If he doped for all those years, won the tour 7 times, and never got caught, he must have a pretty substantial amount of expertise.

Okay, I'm a little tongue-in-cheek here. I mean, it's not a bad idea, I don't think, but I'm certainly not claiming it as great. What do you other 50-plussers think?
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Old 05-23-11, 06:50 PM   #2
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Best idea yet. I mean it goes thru all sports and begins at the high school level. It must stop. I know my kids did not use juice and I hope something is done so my grands don't have the pressure of dealing with their peers who may not be as good as them having an unfair advantage. Kinda makes me sick that for now, the only way for them to not have the juice pressure is for them to not participate. Just too sad. And the problem is that the juice seems to be getting more powerful and harder to detect every year.
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Old 05-23-11, 06:57 PM   #3
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Novitsky has a woody for LA, and I doubt he would ever offer immunity to him.
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Old 05-23-11, 08:11 PM   #4
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I simply do not care.
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Old 05-23-11, 08:30 PM   #5
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I had a friend quit body-building because beyond the county level all the competitors were juiced, and this was the female division. We've got high school athletes juicing when they don't even know what they might be screwing up. I don't really care about the pros, they have to sleep in the beds they make, but the corrosive influence on our youth and athletics in general is starting to bother me. Still, I'm torn because I selfishly enjoy watching those enhanced athletes do their wonders. Since it is against the rules, maybe the sanctions for getting caught need to be greater, like being wiped from the books and having to repay all prize-money and salary taken during a career.
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Old 05-23-11, 10:21 PM   #6
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I'm just asking...could Lance actually end up in prison if he is found to be guilty? How far could this thing go? Would all the second place finishers be crowned as winners of the seven tours that Lance won by doping? What would be the worst case scenario?
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Old 05-23-11, 10:57 PM   #7
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Lance can always say he did not know what was in the steaks he was eating.
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Old 05-23-11, 11:34 PM   #8
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I'm just asking...could Lance actually end up in prison if he is found to be guilty? How far could this thing go? Would all the second place finishers be crowned as winners of the seven tours that Lance won by doping? What would be the worst case scenario?
Only if no one says that the second, third or forth place finisher doped. In fact everyone on the team becomes suspect. Eddie Mercks was caught doping in the Italian race. The bigger problem is going to prove a pro racer didn't juice. I was standing in line at the phamacy yesterday waiting for a prescription and noticed they sell DHEA over the counter. If I thought it would help I might try it.
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Old 05-24-11, 12:48 PM   #9
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...give Lance immunity from prosecution if he agrees to help testers...
Ba!!s!!!

Let Lance and the so-called "sport" live in the glaring light of public scrutiny. Let the chips fall as they may. Let the Tour [ALL the 'Tours'] go through a well-earned shake out as it strives to re-gain our trust.

To He!! with them.

ALL of them.

Meanwhile, let's ALL go for a spin and have a good time. Let the "Tour" drop into the same Slimy Pit of Shame as the one Goldman-Sachs occupies.

We live in a time of disappointment of all our institutions. Who do you trust?

Go for a ride and turn off the Tour.
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Old 05-24-11, 12:52 PM   #10
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Like the American sports, why can't we just all acknowledge that the 90's to @2007 was a period of doping in all sports. Put an asterisk on the records if you want to, but let's move on. The DA's and special investigators will just have to make a name for themselves with someone currently breaking the law.
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Old 05-24-11, 01:05 PM   #11
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Like the American sports, why can't we just all acknowledge that the 90's to @2007 was a period of doping in all sports. Put an asterisk on the records if you want to, but let's move on. The DA's and special investigators will just have to make a name for themselves with someone currently breaking the law.
Well stated, my sediments also. My background and love was track and field and long ago gave up hoping the performances were honest.
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Old 05-24-11, 01:18 PM   #12
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The International cycling Union (UCI) has basically come out and supported Lance. They have used their words carefully but as far as they are concerned "The UCI can only confirm that Lance Armstrong has never been notified of a positive test result." They also came up with a good point--If Tyler knew that drug taking was taking place----Why has it taken 8 years for him to announce that fact?

Link to the BBC cycling page and article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cycling/13510249.stm

And my feeling is that Cycling has the most stringent testing system of any Sport. They will catch wrong doers and they do announce the names of any caught within the system.
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Old 05-24-11, 01:31 PM   #13
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They also came up with a good point--If Tyler knew that drug taking was taking place----Why has it taken 8 years for him to announce that fact?
Tyler before being called in to the grand jury: "I didn't dope and Lance didn't dope."
Fed's: " Tell the truth, and you won't go to prison."
Tyler now: "We all doped."

Pretty simple, really. The riders are acting in their own enlightened self-interest. Until faced with prosecution, it was in their interest to lie. Now? Not so much.

Lance's PR sound bites notwithstanding, I'm much more ready to believe someone who is facing prosecution if they lie, than someone who is in a position to protect their interests by hiding the truth.

I think the biggest problem is that the testing is STILL behind the doping programs.
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Old 05-25-11, 07:50 AM   #14
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I enjoy watching the TdF. There's little enough to watch during the summer in a non-World-Cup year. I'll watch if they go a little slower due to non-doping. I'll even continue to watch if there's a stench of cheating. Maybe I shouldn't but realistically, I would. But I'd like them to clean it up.
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Old 05-25-11, 08:37 AM   #15
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Juicers will get their rewards in the end. Ask Lyle Alzado. Oh, wait a minute you can't.

I am 52. I pitched college baseball. I never did any enhancement drugs. I still play softball with the young guys. I ski as well and as hard as I ever have. I am going to pitch for a travel baseball team this summer. I can ride bike as hard as ever. I'm getting the rewards now for not doing stupid ****. The others....can't walk a golf course without pain.

You wanna do enhancement drugs? Go ahead. It isn't hurting me one bit.

Oh just wait for the time when it's revealed that Tiger Woods did them too. Why do you think his body is falling apart now? Just rewards!
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Old 05-25-11, 08:53 AM   #16
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I'm just asking...could Lance actually end up in prison if he is found to be guilty? How far could this thing go? Would all the second place finishers be crowned as winners of the seven tours that Lance won by doping? What would be the worst case scenario?
A court order to ride only with a set of training wheels for 5yrs.
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Old 05-25-11, 08:57 AM   #17
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Juicers will get their rewards in the end. Ask Lyle Alzado. Oh, wait a minute you can't.

I am 52. I pitched college baseball. I never did any enhancement drugs. I still play softball with the young guys. I ski as well and as hard as I ever have. I am going to pitch for a travel baseball team this summer. I can ride bike as hard as ever. I'm getting the rewards now for not doing stupid ****. The others....can't walk a golf course without pain.

You wanna do enhancement drugs? Go ahead. It isn't hurting me one bit.

Oh just wait for the time when it's revealed that Tiger Woods did them too. Why do you think his body is falling apart now? Just rewards!
There it is. Living long and healthy is the greatest revenge

I was a powerlifter back in the 90's when I was 38-40yrs old. It is astounding how many were doing roids and even at that age. I refused to compete against them so ended up with national records in two sanctioning federations that were drug free. There were the drug free's and the "open" competitions. Some of those guys that competed in those "open" federations are dead. I lost a very good friend last year, he was in his 40's. Steriods and other anabolics/performance enhancing drugs have a debt you must pay back.
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Old 05-25-11, 09:08 AM   #18
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Like the American sports, why can't we just all acknowledge that the 90's to @2007 was a period of doping in all sports. Put an asterisk on the records if you want to, but let's move on. The DA's and special investigators will just have to make a name for themselves with someone currently breaking the law.
Doping in US pro sports ended 4 years ago?? Yeah, and I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.


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Old 05-25-11, 09:51 AM   #19
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I am out of town and logged in via a hotel computer. The bf avatars are huge. A'Jet looks bigger and scarier than normal.

I am not supporting or wondering if anyone did anything wrong. That is the job of the officials and authorities. However, I refuse to throw anyone under the bus until there is evidence and conviction by due process. Anything else is character assassination.

The other thing I find facinating is that all the athletes (all sports) seem to know what is going on and who is doing what except the authorities. It strikes me catching a bunch of hairless geeky guys doing a blood transfusion would be like shooting fish in a barrel. And they are not dealing with the mob where pursuing wrong doers resulted in the death.

I find it facinating that we (USA) are throwing Lance under the bus when Spain is supporting Contador who DID test positive for drugs. They said they believed him. He will probably win the Giro.

And be careful with self rightious thoughts. We are not that perfect. Merckx tested positive for drug use and many here say he is a great champion. I guess we just like to see our champions knocked down. That I do not get.
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Old 05-25-11, 10:50 AM   #20
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I don't believe that everyone guilty of a crime is convicted, nor do I believe everyone convicted of a crime is guilty. I have too much experience with our legal system to swallow that. To think that sports associations are more effective than our legal system, catching everyone who cheated, is an even bigger stretch. So, when there are several eyewitnesses providing similar testimony, and believing them meets the Occam's Razor test more than believing Lance, I don't need a decision by a court of law to form an educated opinion.

As far as tearing heroes down, I think we want to believe that they accomplish their feats by pure ability and hard work, not with a chemical assist. We want to know it is something that none of the rest of us, nor those they competed against, could accomplish. If it was assisted chemically, it gives it the feel of something someone else could have done, had they the same doping skills. Not true, but it gives that feeling. Mixing chemicals into the equation takes away the purity of our hero worship. We want to replace that hero with one we can feel better about worshipping, regardless of whether that person exists or not. Personally, I will continue to respect what he accomplished, as it is amazing regardless of how it was done. But I won't contribute to the hero worship, because he appears to have been doing the same thing the other top cyclists were (and no doubt still are) doing.

And, I believe that he must be prosecuted, because the Federal government can not just choose to ignore contract fraud, or it encourages such fraud. There is far enough of that already. Goverment contracts are cash-cows for thousands of contractors who look at the Federal government as a patsy who can easily have the wool pulled over their eyes. In these times of big deficits, and great need for spending, the waste fraud and abuse has to stop.
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Old 05-26-11, 09:01 AM   #21
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Let Lance and all the pro riders take their lumps. The U.S. is supposed to be an example for others and we put up with steriods and PEDs in other sports. I left High School football and then weight lifting because the steriod use, even in the 70's, was getting so prevalent. I saw the pro athletes dying from cancers and weight lifting/body building participants with so many different disorders and the resultant injuries that it sickened me.

I don't respect anyone that uses juice in any form. I detest athletics now and the phony stances taken.

Rant off

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Old 05-26-11, 09:03 AM   #22
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Novitsky has a woody for LA, and I doubt he would ever offer immunity to him.
Agree. Here is proof that the government hates Lance. Going through TSA at the wonderful Seattle airport I removed everything short of the fillings in my teeth. I went through the scanner no less. Then this wonderfully polite TSA goon grabs my arm and pats me down due to the fact that I did not remove my Livestrong Cancer plastic bracelet. Gave me the fifth degree about why I did not remove it. What are you going to do with a Livestrong bracelet, shoot it like a gum band like you did in middle school?
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Old 05-26-11, 09:07 AM   #23
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Let Lance and all the pro riders take their lumps. The U.S. is supposed to be an example for others and we put up with steriods and PEDs in other sports. I left High School football and then weight lifting because the steriod use, even in the 70's, was getting so prevalent. I saw the pro athletes dying from cancers and weight lifting/body building participants with so many different disorders and the resultant injuries that it sickened me.

I don't respect anyone that uses juice in any form. I detest athletics now and the phony stances taken.

Rant off

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