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Old 06-13-11, 05:27 AM   #1
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One of the most impressive bikes I've seen

Was at the Smyrna (Atlanta side) trailhead of the Silver Comet Trail yesterday and, as I was loading up, saw a guy unloading this. Can't see how it would be possible to improve by much on this. The components were a combination of SRAM Red Line and Dura Ace. Not much metal on this rig.

The owner said he was a personal trainer with mostly pro athlete clients

Was looking at the photo a few minutes ago after taking it off the camera. Where is the real brake caliper?

I ride mostly solo in NW Florida and don't see a whole bunch of bikes but I spent several days in the Atlanta area riding the local trails where this was easily the most impressive bike I saw during the whole trip.

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Old 06-13-11, 06:30 AM   #2
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Meh. TT bike. Heavy, stiff, mediocre handling. Rear caliper is under the chain stays. The popularity of triathlon has made TT bikes much more popular lately. Most sizable shops have a fairly wide selection.

Poser alert: Bars are way too high compared to the saddle height for a true TT aero riding position. See below:
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Old 06-13-11, 06:46 AM   #3
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Meh. TT bike. Heavy, stiff, mediocre handling.
Shows what I know, which ain't much! ;-)
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Old 06-13-11, 07:16 AM   #4
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Did you ask him how much he paid for it?
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Old 06-13-11, 07:20 AM   #5
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Nice bike and set up for a triathlete. Triathletes ride tempo (z3 heart rate / power) and typically use a more upright position so that they can transition better to the run. Bike racers go for better position and higher power.

Here is a pic of me on my Cervelo P2C at the 2009 Esparto time trial. My P2C is very light 16 pounds as shown with the Zipp / Trispoke. The bike handles fine and it is more about the rider than the bike. If you saw Fabian Cancellara in the prologue of the Tour de Suisse a couple of days ago, he just crushed a highly technical course at 45 mph. However, TT bikes are specialty bikes designed to go fast and there is a tradeoff between comfort and control. However, they are a blast to ride.

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Old 06-13-11, 07:32 AM   #6
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I think the term poser is a little harsh. Without knowing the owner it's impossible to say. There are plenty of triathletes and other TT riders who are old enough to no longer possess the kind of flexibilty of back and neck that an extreme drop involves, but they're no less committed athletes because of their aging bodies, or their bike setups. IMO.
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Old 06-13-11, 08:32 AM   #7
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Nice bike and set up for a triathlete. Triathletes ride tempo (z3 heart rate / power) and typically use a more upright position so that they can transition better to the run. Bike racers go for better position and higher power.

Here is a pic of me on my Cervelo P2C at the 2009 Esparto time trial. My P2C is very light 16 pounds as shown with the Zipp / Trispoke. The bike handles fine and it is more about the rider than the bike. If you saw Fabian Cancellara in the prologue of the Tour de Suisse a couple of days ago, he just crushed a highly technical course at 45 mph. However, TT bikes are specialty bikes designed to go fast and there is a tradeoff between comfort and control. However, they are a blast to ride.

The P2C is the bike I would like to have. It's a little less aggressive than the P3/4 and would probably be a bit more forgiving on the road. Your bike looks so nicely understated compared to the garish Felt above. I'd like to have Di2 on the TT bike of course.
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Old 06-13-11, 08:49 AM   #8
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No gloves, Hermes? Is that a comfort or aero decision?
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Old 06-13-11, 09:16 AM   #9
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No gloves, Hermes? Is that a comfort or aero decision?
The air resistance of gloves cost a few watts and there is no need to cushion the hands or to protect the rider in a fall. More watts and less weight, what's not to love? Even if it's minimual it makes the rider more complete.
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Old 06-13-11, 09:19 AM   #10
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The P2C is the bike I would like to have. It's a little less aggressive than the P3/4 and would probably be a bit more forgiving on the road. Your bike looks so nicely understated compared to the garish Felt above. I'd like to have Di2 on the TT bike of course.
One of my teammates has a new Felt TT bike in black and it looks totally cool in person. I liked the position of the rear brake. Well, Di2 would be nice to have but fortunately the D/A indexed bar shifters and front and rear D/A ders work really well and the bike shifts perfectly. Initially, I wanted a P3 but I did not want to spend the extra $1000 for the frame and the head tube was shorter which meant I would have needed a rising stem. In this race, a P3 may have reduced my time by 10 to 15 seconds which of course I would like to have but I was short about 4 minutes.

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No gloves, Hermes? Is that a comfort or aero decision?
No gloves are for better aerodynamics. Standard road gloves have a lot of drag due to the rough material. They are intended to protect your hands in a crash which is far less likely in a TT. So the best is aero gloves (I just got some a couple of days ago). So a better choice, but for the fact it was hot, would have been a long sleeve skin suit with aero gloves.
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Old 06-13-11, 10:17 AM   #11
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Hey Hermes, I just have to ask a question. I notice on your bike where your knee is at 10 O'Clock and it's almost even with your steering tube. Isn't that kind of short, for the top tube. I know you want to be forward to get more rpm, but I didn't thing you would want to be that far forward. Just asking.
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Old 06-13-11, 10:31 AM   #12
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Hey Hermes, I just have to ask a question. I notice on your bike where your knee is at 10 O'Clock and it's almost even with your steering tube. Isn't that kind of short, for the top tube. I know you want to be forward to get more rpm, but I didn't thing you would want to be that far forward. Just asking.
George, You be the judge.

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Old 06-13-11, 10:35 AM   #13
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I guess says it all.
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Old 06-13-11, 10:57 AM   #14
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I think the term poser is a little harsh. Without knowing the owner it's impossible to say. There are plenty of triathletes and other TT riders who are old enough to no longer possess the kind of flexibilty of back and neck that an extreme drop involves, but they're no less committed athletes because of their aging bodies, or their bike setups. IMO.
I would agree with the Poser Alert. This will not be the most comfortable bike to ride at any time. If used for Time trials then it would do the job better than a conventional set up bike but for A quick 20 mile ride it would be a killer. But this is not set up as a TT bike.

Of course it may have been that the rider was just on a settling down ride after a few modifications to set up. But as an every day ride- or just a good bike to do on normal rides- it is not the best one to have.
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Old 06-13-11, 11:16 AM   #15
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[video]http://youtu.be/bqyyNrOIatU[/video]

I am really enjoying this thread!

Fabian Cancellara has been mentioned (be still my pattering heart), and the video above from the 2009 Tour de Suisse is him riding at his best. Awesome is the word!

I have a Felt B2, an old one, which I ride in triathlons. I've also ridden it on a few occasions just to ride and I do train on it when I need to. I totally agree that it's a bike that is NOT comfortable for day to day riding, and the handling is indeed twitchy. It handles better when I'm on the base bars (gripping the bottom bar by the brake levers) then it does when I'm on the aero bars. On the aero bars I've discovered that it is steered with your elbows, and the inputs need to be gentle.

It is NOT heavy. It's an aluminum frame, old school, carbon forks, a mixture of Dura-Ace, Ultegra and SRAM Red components, Zero-Lite wheels (which aren't light), but it only weighs 18 pounds.

It IS major fun! I average higher speeds on it than I do my road bike, because, yes, I'm in a more aero position and it takes less effort to sustain a higher speed than my road bike requires. I don't have the TT helmet or any slippery clothing, either.

My opinion on the (gorgeous) DA the OP posted the picture of was that it was set up for a "fun" casual ride. The bars were high (easy to change on the pivot stem the DA has), and the seat was low, plus there was a seat wedge bag on it. Price? $8 to $10K.
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Old 06-13-11, 11:19 AM   #16
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Hey Hermes, I just have to ask a question. I notice on your bike where your knee is at 10 O'Clock and it's almost even with your steering tube. Isn't that kind of short, for the top tube. I know you want to be forward to get more rpm, but I didn't thing you would want to be that far forward. Just asking.
If anything, Hermes could be even more forward and lower but I'm sure it's a compromise due to his advanced years. You can see both Z and Fabian have their elbows directly under their shoulders while Hermes' arms are a bit more extended.
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Old 06-13-11, 11:48 AM   #17
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If anything, Hermes could be even more forward and lower but I'm sure it's a compromise due to his advanced years. You can see both Z and Fabian have their elbows directly under their shoulders while Hermes' arms are a bit more extended.
You are soooo funny. I have suggested more rotated positions to my handlers and one of the issues with a more severe hip angle is breathing. Fabian and Dave have been doing this since they were juniors and they have lung / diaphragm adaptation to get enough air in the lungs. So I have been cautioned about going too low too fast such that better aero may not yield better times.

You will also notice that Dave and Fabian are sitting on the very nose of their saddle. My saddle has the required 5 cm setback to make it UCI legal. When I am back on the saddle, there is a greater angle in my arms. However, riding an 18 mile TT on the nose of the saddle is not fun.

What is ironic is that cyclists shift their weight forward to generate more power and the UCI cannot keep cyclists from riding on the nose of the saddle they just make it more uncomfortable.

The other thing that Dave and Fabian do very well is turtle their head. That is they lower their head and rotate their chin up to allow them to see while reducing their frontal area. My head it too high. I would have to look through my eyebrows if I had my head that low.
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Old 06-13-11, 11:57 AM   #18
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Fabian Cancellara has been mentioned (be still my pattering heart), and the video above from the 2009 Tour de Suisse is him riding at his best. Awesome is the word!
My wife avoids the family room when I'm watching cycling, but that's because she hasn't yet gotten a good look at Cancellara. And you gotta love someone who takes off, alone, and just rides everyone into the ground.
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Old 06-13-11, 12:06 PM   #19
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Cancellara.... And you gotta love someone who takes off, alone, and just rides everyone into the ground.
Oh, I do! :~D
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Old 06-13-11, 02:23 PM   #20
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I think the term poser is a little harsh. Without knowing the owner it's impossible to say. There are plenty of triathletes and other TT riders who are old enough to no longer possess the kind of flexibilty of back and neck that an extreme drop involves, but they're no less committed athletes because of their aging bodies, or their bike setups. IMO.
I concur. A friend of mine rides aero bars set up level with the saddle and he is definitely not a poser. He rides long and is pretty fast for 69 years old. His bike isn't a TT bike though.
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Old 06-13-11, 03:19 PM   #21
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I concur. A friend of mine rides aero bars set up level with the saddle and he is definitely not a poser. He rides long and is pretty fast for 69 years old. His bike isn't a TT bike though.
Aero bars are used by a lot over here on distance training rides on a "Normal" Road bike with normal set up. They keep the $10,000 bike for the TT's though.

Even the "Rich" Club racers over here that do have $10,000 bikes only use them for racing. Normal riding for them is done on the Pinarrelo Dogmas.( Need the green envy Emoticon here)
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Old 06-13-11, 08:42 PM   #22
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[video]http://youtu.be/bqyyNrOIatU[/video]

I am really enjoying this thread!

Fabian Cancellara has been mentioned (be still my pattering heart), and the video above from the 2009 Tour de Suisse is him riding at his best. Awesome is the word!
If that's a time trial, who's the guy in green? Is that the previous rider that he's catching up with? Some stranger just out for a ride?

Observation #1: If by some miracle, I could ride that fast, i'd kill myself trying to make those corners. Just put me on the Bonneville Salt Flats where I'd be safe.

Observation #2: Some of the local randos and ultraracers use time-trial bikes of some type for longer distance riding, but they're not necessarily set up like a TT bike for regular racing, either.
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Old 06-13-11, 11:24 PM   #23
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Hi,

Time trial bikes are about the coolest bikes out there IMHO. I am partial to time trial setups versus triathlon setups. The lower bars make them look extra cool.

One reason why I race time trials is to rationalize owning a bike like this :



This is me from a TT last fall with the bike in a slightly different configuration:



Please forgive the tilted helmet. I guess I needed to tighten it up a bit.

I certainly train on my TT bike periodically but training on a TT bike at 23-26 MPH on a MUP is probably not the safest or wisest thing to do.

stapfam, my TT bike certainly did not costs $10,000. That's what I tell my wife and if I spent that much on mine, I certainly didn't do it all at once.
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Old 06-14-11, 07:01 AM   #24
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About the seat height, the guy who owned it was fairly short, around 5'-7 or so and looked to be in his early 50's. Said he's been biking for decades.
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Old 06-14-11, 07:26 AM   #25
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Since free TT position advice is being doled here I thought it appropriate to put an image of me on my Franken Bike TT machine for comments. I asked my wife take a few images of me riding, but it was probably the wrong time as the Bachelorette was on, and she grudgingly complied. We went out onto the cul-de-sac in front of our house and I would ride past her as she attempted to take a picture. The result was some nice images of our mailbox, some of my front wheel, back wheel, backside and a few blurred images of a guy who must have been riding at 70 mph. A neighbor who came walking by, and after my wife explained what she was doing and how stupid it was, offered to take the images because she took a few photo classes in college and attempted to take a picture of me on the TT bike. Her results were similar to my wife's except the lone mailbox is blurry but there are two good images of our driveway and some trees.

Perhaps I'll get the image when my wife's sister and her husband visit on Thursday. Russ and I will ride road bikes and after the ride I'll ask him to take the image.
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