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Old 06-30-11, 03:08 PM   #1
cranky old dude
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Another batch of Einsteins and their pets!!!

I've sat on this story for a long time wondering if my opinion would change or soften in any way. It hasn't. Some of you will understand my feelings and some will hate me for posting this story about a somewhat touchy subject. Oh well...........

Here's my story.

I was our riding with another BF member (I'll leave his/her name out of this post) on a weekend about a month ago. It was a georgeous day full of sunshine and warmth and the whole city had come outside to enjoy the day.

We rode the lower portion of the river trail at a slow and leisurely pace anticipating throngs of hikers, bikers, and runners. We were not disappointed, the trail was well populated with freindly courteous people of all ages.

I was most impressed by the group of four or five adults who were out frolicking with their four very large (and menacing apearing) dogs. They had none of the required leashes for the dogs and the pack was in the process of traversing the 3/4 mile long bridge down in the turning basin. Golly, they sure seemed to be enjoying themselves.

As we slowly approached on our bikes the wonderful and thoughtful dog owners informed us that we had better stop because their big dog (which ever one that was) likes to catch bikes!! That's right, they said catch not chase. They struggled and eventually got ahold of the collars of all four dogs allowing us safe passage. They didn't seem upset at all, and the owners even bid us a good day as we rode on.

There were a lot of bikes on the trail that day. Cyclists ranging in age from old like me to the very young children with training wheels were riding happily along.

I wonder if the pretty dogs caught any bikes!!

Last edited by cranky old dude; 06-30-11 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 06-30-11, 03:23 PM   #2
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I'm coining a new name:

Doggers
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Old 06-30-11, 03:33 PM   #3
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Yeah...dog owners and their dogs..read this. I take a very dim view of this stuff..it's all ok until it's not.

The man attacked died the next day.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-ne...uled-pit-bulls

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Old 06-30-11, 04:38 PM   #4
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yeah

I have the worst experiences with dog owners who let their dogs run the full length of the leash. Usually they are coming around a corner where they are on opposite sides of the path. They don't bother to pull the dog in on narrow paths and glare like it is my fault for having to ask them to watch out. I just know one of these days I am going to end up going between and end up hurting the dog.
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Old 06-30-11, 04:41 PM   #5
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People are just oblivious when it comes to their dogs. They often seem shocked that there are laws regarding their sweet balls of fur and teeth. Years ago, when Sonoma County, CA was still largely rural rather than one giant suburb, the father of a co-worker had shot and killed a dog that belonged to some newly-arrived neighbors that was roaming his property and harassing his animals. The new neighbors called the Sheriff and were surprised to learn that not only was their dog's shooting legal, they had gotten off light because they weren't charged disposal costs.
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Old 06-30-11, 04:49 PM   #6
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I wish I were there! I would not slow/stop down one bit and if that dog came after me I'd kick the **** out of it. I'm one of the lucky ones (I don't fear dogs) and I've kicked some very big dogs. Not a dog hater, but if their owners don't teach them manners someone has too.

BTW, one thing I've learned is that you got to be ready to kick them and don't kick while riding the bike -- be ready to stop and kick.
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Old 06-30-11, 05:01 PM   #7
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I guess we are really lucky here. On all my rides, the dog owners are attentive, hear my bell, and quickly confine and hold their dogs. I guess we bicyclers have trained them well. Oh, I also always say "Thank you" or something similar to the dog owner, and they smile.
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Old 06-30-11, 05:19 PM   #8
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..."They struggled and eventually got ahold of the collars of all four dogs allowing us safe passage. They didn't seem upset at all, and the owners even bid us a good day as we rode on."

Out of curiosity, did they then leash the dogs or simply let go of the collars after you had passed?

I regularly ride a multi-use path where, despite the signage, owners let their dogs off-leash, and this past weekend I was told of an electronic leash that works similarly to an electronic fence apparently. My concern with an electronic leash is that it is triggered by the owner, which presumes that the owner realizes that the dog is chasing a rabbit, or another dog, or a cyclist and that the owner isn't busily engaged in conversation or distracted by the shape of a passing cloud.

Foolish person that I am I persist in hoping that people will behave responsibly, despite all evidence to the contrary. However, I have about had enough of being told "...oh he won't hurt you...". How am I supposed to know that and why does someone think that is appropriate?

My very young grandchildren have started riding with me this year and my milk of human kindness (tolerance, understanding, or anything else) disappears when they are out there. Anything that potentially threatens them gets removed; animal, vegetable or mineral. I purposefully take them to a multi-use path for safety. As far as I'm concerned when they are with me a loose Chihuahua is a threat.

While some might deem that overreaction I would rather apologize than see a child hurt, and if the dog is loose there won't be an apology. Those who lecture on needing to understand dogs and of the need for the rest of us to be more tolerant of dogs should also be aware that there are always limits and that those limits will change based upon the situation. If you love your dog don't put them in a situation that puts them at risk by presuming that the rest of us love your pet.
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Old 06-30-11, 06:01 PM   #9
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The feeling of entitlement is a symptom of narcissism; which seems to fit your Dogger* encounter.



*thanks to DnvrFox for a new word
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Old 06-30-11, 07:43 PM   #10
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As a dog owner myself,if a dog comes at me while on a bike,I'll mace the owner.
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Old 06-30-11, 08:17 PM   #11
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Cranky glad you'll are safe! Being a doger owner I keep min on a leash for that reason & he's 14yr. old too. Some
people he likes & those he don't he wont let them close to me, also any one coming from or back he considers a
sneak. He saved me from walking into an ambush at night when we were younger.
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Old 06-30-11, 08:22 PM   #12
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Old 07-01-11, 12:22 AM   #13
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I've only had one serious encounter with a dog. I was walking in my neighborhood about 17 years ago. A man was talking with his neighbor on his driveway with his dog, some kind of large bird dog, sitting next to them. I was on the sidewalk across the street, a residential street. The dog ran after me after barking and growling. I pulled out my pocket knife, and was ready to cut his face. The owner ran after the dog. He had tried to stop the dog, but he did not get a good hold of his collar. He was yelling at the dog to stop, and pleaded with me not to cut the dog. When I got into a defensive stance the dog stopped just out of my reach, and barked at me until his owner grabbed his collar. The owner had the nerve to ask me what was wrong with me. He though it was crazy to carry a knife, even if it is only a 3" folder, and threaten his dog. I had a few choice words for him. He ended up apologizing, and saying he was in shock, and please forgive his outburst. I was not very forgiving. That is my dog story. So far I have been able to out run the doggies while on the bike. I can pedal fast when scared. I can now send PMs since this is my 50th post.
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Old 07-01-11, 04:25 AM   #14
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I'm a dog owner and a cyclist. I ALWAYS keep my dog on a controlled leash except at a dog park. Dogs instinctively chase, so a bike rider makes for a good run. Dog owners need do be more responsible and consider what is like for the person on the other side of the coin ie:would they like to be chased be a dog they don't know?
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Old 07-01-11, 04:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mafenwi View Post
I have the worst experiences with dog owners who let their dogs run the full length of the leash. Usually they are coming around a corner where they are on opposite sides of the path.
Around here, the story continues: the dog owner jumps (gee, someone else using the MUP, who woulda thought?), startling the dog as well. Then they nervously reel in the retractable leash in a rush, with repeated yanks. I'm sure their dogs learn to hate cyclists in no time.

We have one corgi living nearby (nothing wrong with corgies, apologies to Bailey if he's reading this) that we meet every now and then. He (?) couldn't care less when we pass by foot. If we're riding, he will wait till the last second, then make a surprise lunge for us and the bikes, barking his head off.

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Last edited by Juha; 07-01-11 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 07-01-11, 05:50 AM   #16
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Dogs instinctively chase, so a bike rider makes for a good run.
I thought they chased us because cyclists are tasty
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Old 07-01-11, 05:52 AM   #17
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I've only had one serious encounter with a dog. I was walking in my neighborhood about 17 years ago. A man was talking with his neighbor on his driveway with his dog, some kind of large bird dog, sitting next to them. I was on the sidewalk across the street, a residential street. The dog ran after me after barking and growling. I pulled out my pocket knife, and was ready to cut his face. The owner ran after the dog. He had tried to stop the dog, but he did not get a good hold of his collar. He was yelling at the dog to stop, and pleaded with me not to cut the dog. When I got into a defensive stance the dog stopped just out of my reach, and barked at me until his owner grabbed his collar. The owner had the nerve to ask me what was wrong with me. He though it was crazy to carry a knife, even if it is only a 3" folder, and threaten his dog. I had a few choice words for him. He ended up apologizing, and saying he was in shock, and please forgive his outburst. I was not very forgiving. That is my dog story. So far I have been able to out run the doggies while on the bike. I can pedal fast when scared. I can now send PMs since this is my 50th post.
You might want to reconsider your approach. Dogs are pelt animals and damage to their pelt is likely less painful than a similar cut on a human. Depending on the breed and personality of the dog, you could cut all you want and it wouldn't stop the attack. There are ways to stop a dog attack if one is in immediate danger of serious injury or loss of life, but they aren't much fun, not even to talk about.
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Old 07-01-11, 06:04 AM   #18
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Where I live we have a couple of really beautiful beaches, dog owners and their pets have turned them into giant litterboxes. Each morning they cover the beach with dog poo. Then the tourists (locals won't use them) come and try and use what retain is left.
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Old 07-01-11, 06:05 AM   #19
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I love dogs, but I don't care for the pit bull breed. Carry a gun or mace to protect yourself, or the cabled bike lock makes a formiddable weapon.
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Old 07-01-11, 06:38 AM   #20
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I'm on the local bike path several times per week. And though I am happy to share it with walkers, rollerbladers, etc., this particular path is called, in print, a bikeway or a bike trail. While on the bike path I've taken it upon myself to inform dog owners that their dog belongs on a leash if it isn't leased. None of my business? I disagree...

A few weeks ago I was riding the path solo as I usually do and prefer to do. A young man with a bike who was stopped on the path waved and urged me to stop. He had just been bitten several times by an unleashed dog. The skin on his leg was visibly broken. Also, while appearing somewhat calm, it was clear to me that this young man was scared. He was new to the area and was using the path to get from one major town to another.

Trying to make a long story short here... there was a town park near the incident and several workers had seen the dog (German Shepard, btw) and it's owner. While the owner may not have seen the incident, he knew something bad had happened and he made a swift exit from the area. I know because I rode back and forth on the path looking for the dog or owner, asking questions whenever I ran across another person. I got some help from park employees and local police were summoned. The police took the situation very seriously, but there was little that could be done if the owner couldn't be found. The poor young man probably had to go for rabies treatment. I and others urged him to seek medical attention.

I ended up staying with the situation for well over an hour. I eventually helped the young man get to where he could catch a bus. He said that he owed me, wanted to give me money etc. but I refused. I didn't mind helping somebody who was in need.

I will continue to chide irresponsible animal owners in an area where I and others are vulnerable. It has become my business.
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Old 07-01-11, 07:10 AM   #21
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You'd be surprised at how much of our language dogs understand. Try this line on the next one that threatens your space: "Oh, look, a TASTY dog!!!" It works even better if you lick your lips and move toward it. They suddenly don't want to be in the same county as you.
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Old 07-01-11, 07:19 AM   #22
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I love dogs, but I don't care for the pit bull breed. Carry a gun or mace to protect yourself, or the cabled bike lock makes a formiddable weapon.
Pit Bulls have a bad rap, because idiots train the viciousness into them, usually by abusing the dog when it's a puppy, until it essentially goes insane. The issue isn't really the dog, it's the owner, and when an owner trains a dog to be vicious, and then allows it to roam free, the owner should bear the brunt of the responsibility, not the dog. Although in my personal opinion, if the owner can't be bothered to attempt to keep the dog under control, they have no business having a dog in the first place.
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Old 07-01-11, 07:25 AM   #23
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Yeah...dog owners and their dogs..read this. I take a very dim view of this stuff..it's all ok until it's not.

The man attacked died the next day.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-ne...uled-pit-bulls

MIKE
All dog owners raise pit bulls and train them for fighting so of course your story is appropriate in the context of this discussion. Yeah, right. This is the same kind of nonsense logic that so many car drivers try to use against us. And that we use against them, pedestrians, and other cyclists who get in our way.

Irresponsible dog owners are exactly the same kind of person as cyclists who flaunt all kinds of traffic laws and then endlessly justify themselves on Bike Forum. They probably even have their own forum somewhere; the OP's dog owners are probably posting right now about the idiot cyclist they had to try to defuse the other day on the dog path....

I have yet to meet the dog I cannot deal with peaceably and if I had grand kids I would not be afraid to take them on paths that are shared with dogs. Train the kids to deal with dogs and they will have no trouble. I can tell you right now that people who train fighting pit bulls rarely, if ever, take them for a walk so you aren't going to meet them on the bike path. There are exceptions but for the most part they don't look like they are in the habit of taking walks themselves. And of course their "hobby" is despicable on so many levels that it beggars description. Unfortunately, the coining of phrases like "cager" and "dogger" is not the solution, it is the problem. The dog owners/car drivers who offend you have the same narcissistic arrogance that you have. That is why you don't get along with them.

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Old 07-01-11, 07:29 AM   #24
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It was a georgeous day full of sunshine and warmth and the whole city had come outside to enjoy the day.
To bike riders, this is kind of like the Jaws music.... you know something bad is coming.





EDIT: After reading the rest of your post.... I'm disappointed. I'm glad you didn't have an incident, but I was expecting some action.

To contribute something... my observation is that most people control their dogs on the MUP pretty well around here. I occasionally come across an unleashed dog and I'll ring my bell far enough off to give the owner fair warning. As long as they see me I figure they know to take appropriate action. A lot of the time that means they do nothing differently; the dogs are well-healed and don't chase bikes. Sometimes they reel in the leash or grab the dog so I can pass. So far I haven't had a negative dog incident on the MUP. For context, it runs through a green space along the river, and frankly it is a pretty good area to let a dog run (assuming they're properly socialized). I try to bear in mind that MUP means multi-use. As long as we all get along I don't mind if they let the dog run.
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Old 07-01-11, 07:39 AM   #25
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I have the worst experiences with dog owners who let their dogs run the full length of the leash. Usually they are coming around a corner where they are on opposite sides of the path. They don't bother to pull the dog in on narrow paths and glare like it is my fault for having to ask them to watch out. I just know one of these days I am going to end up going between and end up hurting the dog.
If you can foresee hurting the dog, you should develop a plan that precludes the possibility. Maybe you shouldn't be taking corners so fast. We get on car drivers all the time on this forum for saying they never saw the bike when the reality is they were driving too fast for conditions. On MUPs, bikes are the cars. Take it easy out there.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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