At what point does a false flat become a climb?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,990
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
At what point does a false flat become a climb?
Is it a function of grade or grade over distance or something else?
Inquiring minds.
Inquiring minds.
#2
invisible friend
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Decatur, Alabama
Posts: 956
Bikes: Gary Fisher Tassajara hardtail mtb, '01 Rans Wave, '98 Raleigh R700, Mid-80's Takara Professional, '91 Bianchi Alfana
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It becomes a climb the instant you start pedalling up the grade, no matter the grade over distance! That's my opinion, anyway!
#4
Time for a change.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
As soon as you start changing to a lower gear- You are on a climb. To be a slope though is a different matter- and as for Hills_____________When do they turn into Mountains?
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
12 Posts
I don't think there is any technical quantitative specification. Basically, it's a perceptual thing. You think it's flat, it looks flat, yet your going pretty slow compared to what you're use to for how hard you're pedaling. Going the other way, you think it's flat, it looks flat, yet your going significantly faster than you would on a truly flat road.
#6
Galveston County Texas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,221
Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1350 Post(s)
Liked 1,243 Times
in
621 Posts
This road appeared to be flat for 26 miles.
Looking back you could tell, but not while riding forward.
Looking back you could tell, but not while riding forward.
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
#7
Senior Member
SKT, I suppose a false flat is technically a climb or a decent, but I still consider it the same as riding on level ground.
Brad
Brad
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
I'm thinking that as long as you're sitting in the saddle and spinning away, it's a false flat. When you start standing on the pedals, lowering your cadence and grinding away, it's a climb.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,943
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3771 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times
in
788 Posts
A false flat is simply an optical illusion. There are different variations of these illusions. Here's one that many perceive as going up hill, but actually they are going downhill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJYuF2sYzGw
Last edited by work4bike; 07-10-11 at 06:46 AM.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317
Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times
in
313 Posts
As soon as I have the need to downshift
This is assuming there isnt a sudden change in wind direction.
This is assuming there isnt a sudden change in wind direction.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,874
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1856 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
#14
just keep riding
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times
in
22 Posts
When it hurts.
#15
Senior Member
Hmmm is this a trick or something? A "false flat" can not be flat or it wouldn't be false now would it? Therefore it has to be an elevation increase. In other words, it is a climb. It might not be much of a climb. It might be what I would call a "rise". But it is just a matter of semantics.
I would just as soon avoid a discussion on the exact definition of what consitutes a climb. I mean we would have to hash out the minimum percent grade involved and the minimum elevation increase involved. Personally, I think "climbs" are in the eye of the beholder. If you think that it is a climb, it is.
I would just as soon avoid a discussion on the exact definition of what consitutes a climb. I mean we would have to hash out the minimum percent grade involved and the minimum elevation increase involved. Personally, I think "climbs" are in the eye of the beholder. If you think that it is a climb, it is.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,943
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3771 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times
in
788 Posts
Here's a pretty good definition of a false flat; take note of the last paragraph.
https://www.fitsugar.com/What-False-Flat-8216271
"You know that sensation when you're on a stretch of road, either running or cycling, and it looks flat but you're still huffing and puffing? When you look at the road or trail straight on there is no perceptible rise in the terrain, yet you're working extra hard to maintain your speed? That, my dear, is a false flat, and the roads in my neck of the woods are full of them. The slow creep of roads away from the San Francisco Bay offer many almost imperceptible uphill grades, but I have felt them elsewhere. False flats are deceptive and can be soul crushing; unlike discernible hills, there is no victorious summit creating a sense of accomplishment and a bit of glorious descent. One biking forum explained that the grade of these ascents as only being one to two percent, but that is enough to feel it on the climb up.
Coming down a false flat on the other hand makes you feel quite speedy, but rarely will one attribute their sudden speed to the downhill false flat. The term seems mostly used to explain the difficult, if imperceptible climbs."
https://www.fitsugar.com/What-False-Flat-8216271
"You know that sensation when you're on a stretch of road, either running or cycling, and it looks flat but you're still huffing and puffing? When you look at the road or trail straight on there is no perceptible rise in the terrain, yet you're working extra hard to maintain your speed? That, my dear, is a false flat, and the roads in my neck of the woods are full of them. The slow creep of roads away from the San Francisco Bay offer many almost imperceptible uphill grades, but I have felt them elsewhere. False flats are deceptive and can be soul crushing; unlike discernible hills, there is no victorious summit creating a sense of accomplishment and a bit of glorious descent. One biking forum explained that the grade of these ascents as only being one to two percent, but that is enough to feel it on the climb up.
Coming down a false flat on the other hand makes you feel quite speedy, but rarely will one attribute their sudden speed to the downhill false flat. The term seems mostly used to explain the difficult, if imperceptible climbs."
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,272
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8271 Post(s)
Liked 9,024 Times
in
4,468 Posts
False flat is just a name someone came up with to describe the perception of flat road when it is actually a grade.
One time I was in a group going up a slight grade along a creek. Vallygirl was there and she commented that the creek was running "the wrong way".
One time I was in a group going up a slight grade along a creek. Vallygirl was there and she commented that the creek was running "the wrong way".
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,272
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8271 Post(s)
Liked 9,024 Times
in
4,468 Posts
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,990
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks, all, for your perspectives. I got curious about this yesterday... we have a number of these kinds of roads in town.
I look straight ahead and it's just a flat road. I look off to the side and it shows a pretty decent slant.
I checked my Garmin -yeah, I know- and it says it's around 3%
So, I got to thinking... is this a climb?
Something similar happens on a "real" (>6%) climb... look straight ahead and you feel like you're crawling.
Look to the side and you can see you're actually moving at a pretty good clip... and I only climb at around 6-8 mph
I look straight ahead and it's just a flat road. I look off to the side and it shows a pretty decent slant.
I checked my Garmin -yeah, I know- and it says it's around 3%
So, I got to thinking... is this a climb?
Something similar happens on a "real" (>6%) climb... look straight ahead and you feel like you're crawling.
Look to the side and you can see you're actually moving at a pretty good clip... and I only climb at around 6-8 mph
#21
I need speed
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,550
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
When we were kids, we would periodically go visit what we called "gravity hill". You could stop your car or bike, let it coast, and swear you were watching it roll uphill.
I call the next step up from a false flat an "incline".
I call the next step up from a false flat an "incline".
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,943
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3771 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times
in
788 Posts
#23
invisible friend
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Decatur, Alabama
Posts: 956
Bikes: Gary Fisher Tassajara hardtail mtb, '01 Rans Wave, '98 Raleigh R700, Mid-80's Takara Professional, '91 Bianchi Alfana
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#24
just keep riding
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times
in
22 Posts
#25
Time for a change.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
4 years ago and I climbed Ventoux. Not so much difficult but it was one continual hard slog in 28/28. Got to the cafe about 2/3rds up and you turn right up to a left hairpin.
Now remember that I was tired- legs were aching and I was in the lowest gear on the bike from about 1/2 mile from the bottom with a cadence of around70. First thing I noticed was that cadence went up to around 85 so I changed up a gear then another. False Flat? Noway- it was just that the 8% slope had turned into a 5%.
Now remember that I was tired- legs were aching and I was in the lowest gear on the bike from about 1/2 mile from the bottom with a cadence of around70. First thing I noticed was that cadence went up to around 85 so I changed up a gear then another. False Flat? Noway- it was just that the 8% slope had turned into a 5%.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan