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Old 07-18-11, 01:47 PM   #26
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We all need to take responsibility for our own experience. I research any group I'm thinking about riding with, if their style doesn't match with mine it's my responsibility for what happens on the ride if I join them. I've been dropped from groups, so what, my problem I couldn't keep up, but I never get upset about it. I've also been in groups that ride the usual pace and people get dropped off, sorry, must not be the group for you today. I've been a member of clubs where people join rides that they clearly are not up to the normal pace of the group, it takes a very short distance for them to be dropped. They often complain to club leaders, who usually offer to let them lead slower groups with a no drop policy. Few, if any ever take the offer and lead slower groups. It's everyone's responsibility to find the right ride group, or start your own.
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Old 07-18-11, 04:14 PM   #27
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Hello willb1046! I live within 20 minutes of the shopping center where Team Evesham departs from. I have considered riding with that group a number of times, but haven't worked up the guts yet. I fear the drop thing. I will be riding the City to Shore this September, too, and am registered with H.U.P.'s team.
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Old 07-18-11, 04:37 PM   #28
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Yep, I agree. I think some riders simply have to prove something while on the road, in my area cyclists on average all seem to be really unsocialable, rarely if ever acknowledging other riders. The thing that really burns me up are the riders that pass without a word.
When people pass me from behind without saying anything, I say to them that they need to say something. It's quite dangerous to pass someone without alerting the person being passed. When I ride I sometimes swerve a little to avoid something in the road. I also sit upright in the saddle and stretch my arms out to the side just for the pleasure of it. What's the big deal in letting the person you are about to pass that you are on their left? One of these days one of the klutzes will pass me just as I am stretching or leaning to turn the bike a bit and their will be an accident.

When meeting other cyclists coming from the opposite direction, I find that some cyclists ignore you when you say hello or wave. I bother to wave or say hello out of friendliness much as I do when I'm walking and meet a fellow pedestrian. Of course no cyclist is "obligated" to respond to a friendly greeting, but I do wonder why some cyclist do not. A raised hand, a nod of the head. What's the bit deal? I wonder if these same folks ignore hellos when they are out walking and meet up with another pedestrian. In a society in which so many people feel and behave aggressively towards others, you might think that a little causal friendliness among cyclists might be more common and more sought after. Doesn't it feel good to say hello or wave to people? It does for me, especially when they return the greeting.
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Old 07-18-11, 04:52 PM   #29
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There is a difference between a passing rider being "sociable" and saying "on your left," "passing," or ringing a bell.

You originally stated they should be sociable. Now you are changing your story to a safety factor. I agree with you on the safety warning, I don't see why they have to be sociable, although I appreciate it when they are.

I wave at approaching bicyclists. If they don't respond, I figure it is their loss, and don't worry about it. YMMV

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Old 07-18-11, 05:05 PM   #30
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I took a club ride in the middle of a Bike tour in England,
the club culture was one to include everyone
,and they kept coming back to include the 'lantern rouge' guy.
I was on my touring bike, just minus the luggage, so that was usually me..

OTOH back here the shops group was into hammering, so I stopped going .

start your own group.
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Old 07-18-11, 05:53 PM   #31
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club ride != not drop you
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Old 07-18-11, 06:14 PM   #32
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club ride != not drop you
sometimes
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Old 07-18-11, 06:14 PM   #33
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When people pass me from behind without saying anything, I say to them that they need to say something. It's quite dangerous to pass someone without alerting the person being passed. When I ride I sometimes swerve a little to avoid something in the road. I also sit upright in the saddle and stretch my arms out to the side just for the pleasure of it. What's the big deal in letting the person you are about to pass that you are on their left? One of these days one of the klutzes will pass me just as I am stretching or leaning to turn the bike a bit and their will be an accident.
.
We are also obligated to keep track of what traffic is behind us - with a mirror or a periodic turn of the head.
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Old 07-18-11, 06:48 PM   #34
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. . . . It's quite dangerous to pass someone without alerting the person being passed. When I ride I sometimes swerve a little to avoid something in the road. I also sit upright in the saddle and stretch my arms out to the side just for the pleasure of it . . .
In my experience staying alert and giving the slower rider plenty of room leaves a fine margin for safety, the call of "On your left" or "Passing" can cause exactly the problems you are trying to avoid, and your mirror is your friend.
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Old 07-18-11, 07:19 PM   #35
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I would have thought that a C ride would be no drop too, but who knows. "A" rides really don't work well with a no-drop rule, and many of the people that get dropped probably wouldn't want to be waited for anyway. I know I never did. Motivation for the next ride. And a point of pride when they couldn't drop me any more.

How did we get on passing etiquette? If someone passes me safely, I don't feel that I can ask much more than that.
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Old 07-18-11, 07:22 PM   #36
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In my experience staying alert and giving the slower rider plenty of room leaves a fine margin for safety, the call of "On your left" or "Passing" can cause exactly the problems you are trying to avoid, and your mirror is your friend.
^^^

If there is any risk, I'll say something like "Coming by on your left". If there isn't, then I provide all the room required, and say "Hi", "Hey", "Morning", something like that. The "On your left" call can have a derogatory aspect to it, akin to "In yo' face" if you score over someone in basketball, and so I avoid it. I always wave to people riding (or walking) the other direction, but don't expect a response.
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Old 07-18-11, 07:57 PM   #37
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What is the purpose of riding with other if they will be dropped? The concept of "dropping" is a racing term. When people ride together I assume that they desire each others company. But as you know, there are a lot of pro wannabes out there who get some sort of satisfaction from "dropping" slower riders. Best to cycle with friends or alone. Cycling is not a competitive pastime unless one is a racer.
For many of us, group rides are training rides. I race, but this is also true for many people how do not race. Just because they don't race, doesn't mean they aren't trying to be as fast/strong/fit as they can. There are many reasons why people don't race. Some don't because of the crash risk; others because of how hard it is to succeed at the sport. Group rides become their races, and many group rides are organized around this fact. I've never seen a no-drop A group. It's "See ya at the finish, if we are still there when you arrive." B groups can be either. C groups I would expect to regroup, unless told otherwise. Most groups are not "No-drop" in the sense that they are going to slow the pace so you can keep up. They are regroup rides, which works much better. Regroup at the tops and bottoms of hills, and at pre-planned water stops. Riders paces vary too much to have an "open" ride reduce its pace to the slowest rider. That's for "closed" groups of friends and such.

Our club advertises A (22+ average) and B (20ish on the flats) groups, though we don't call them that on the web page. http://www.bullshifters.org/. Our routes are provided in advance (http://www.bullshifters.org/upcoming.html), and people are expected to print the route and/or know it. I load it in my iPhone 'just in case'.

But the reality is that we all start together, and at some point the faster riders will break off the front. That group will regroup at water stops, and sometimes at the tops of climbs. Sort of depends who is there. The slower group will more or less stay together, sometimes moderating the pace to allow people who are struggling to hang on. Not always. You can't expect a group that rides together all the time, which has published speeds, to reduce pace 5 mph so you can keep up. It spoils the ride for them.

Finding the right group to ride with is a process. When I started riding with this club about a year ago, they would all literally be packed up and gone from the parking lot by the time I finished. My cycling goal was to finish while they were still there. Then it became to finish with the B's. Then to finish with the A's. Now I do most of my rides with a faster group, using the club rides for base miles, adding solo miles after the end of the ride. It's a process, and part of that process is being dropped. Over and over. It's how you learn and improve.
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Old 07-18-11, 08:31 PM   #38
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Well stated AZT.

The three club rides that I will do on occasion all have differing dynamics. One bills itself as an A-B+ ride but embraces newer riders and a few women who constantly get dropped then the group stops to re-group. The average rider is on the mature side and it is a great social ride for me when I don't want to hammer. The 2nd club is a local A ride but doesn't have the big guns, who can blow the doors off the group, so they usually all work together to obtain the fastest average speed that the group can do. That ride also does have a B and C ride which have routes that are shorter than the A ride with cut off points enabling all the groups to finish around the same time. The 3rd group are the wanna-be racers. The ride begins in a valley and will have a climb out that puts everyone to the test. The ride will regroup after the first climb but not again and the riders still in the front group will sprint to the parking lot driveway at the end of the ride. All three clubs have their own following of riders who accept the program.

Most of my riding buddies don't race but do like to ride fast and challenge themselves by participating in group rides or on our "buddy rides". They may not have the time to dedicate to being a racer due to family or business but like to push themselves to seek improvement.
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Old 07-18-11, 10:09 PM   #39
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I belong to two local bike clubs, plus a less formal group that sets up rides through Facebook. We typically plot the ride using ridewithgps.com, then give everyone a link so they can print cue sheets with mileages.
When rides are posted, we note what the pace is going to be like, and whether the ride will be swept (rides are rated A-E in terms of length and difficulty). I also try to put my cell number on the cue sheet so that anyone who gets lost/separated can call me. Hammers have cue sheets, so they can go do their thing. It works...more or less.

On the other side of the coin, I've had someone show up for a social ride (but clearly noted as "must be able to maintain a 12-14 mph pace") on a hardtail MTB averaging 6-8 mph, then had to sweep them all morning. Not fun for either of us.
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Old 07-19-11, 06:18 AM   #40
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^^^

If there is any risk, I'll say something like "Coming by on your left". If there isn't, then I provide all the room required, and say "Hi", "Hey", "Morning", something like that. The "On your left" call can have a derogatory aspect to it, akin to "In yo' face" if you score over someone in basketball, and so I avoid it. I always wave to people riding (or walking) the other direction, but don't expect a response.
Really? I find that extremely sad.
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Old 07-19-11, 06:35 AM   #41
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The "On your left" call can have a derogatory aspect to it, akin to
"In yo' face" if you score over someone in basketball, and so I avoid
it.
Huh??
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Old 07-19-11, 07:42 AM   #42
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Like Groucho Marx, I don't want to belong to any club that would have people like me as a member. I tend to ride solo.
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Old 07-19-11, 07:47 AM   #43
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Huh??
There is even a guy here on BF who will phrase it something like "On your left, ladies..." when he passes a paceline of guys. He keeps score on his rides of how many people he passes. Sigh. But it's all in how you say it. I'm a very polite rider, and tend to avoid things that can be construed as insulting. Looking back at someone after you pass them can do the same thing, so I don't look back.
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Old 07-19-11, 08:05 AM   #44
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The "On your left" call can have a derogatory aspect to it, akin to "In yo' face" if you score over someone in basketball, and so I avoid it.
While I am aware that some people see things that way, I don't worry as much about the chip on their shoulders as about the dangers of passing them without warning. I'll often use other greetings or conversation or jokes or sing or ring a bell or make other noises for variety on rides like BRAG where hundreds of riders are present going different speeds.

But I will say "on your left", especially when passing someone who is blocking the road by obliviously riding two or three abreast. I'll sometimes thank them as I pass, either genuinely when they are courteous or sarcastically when they remain oblivious. If it bothers folks like that that I used common terminology like "on your left", that is their problem and not mine. I'm just trying to ride safely.
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Old 07-19-11, 08:18 AM   #45
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...But I will say "on your left", especially when passing someone who is blocking the road by obliviously riding two or three abreast. I'll sometimes thank them as I pass, either genuinely when they are courteous or sarcastically when they remain oblivious...
Same here. I'll say "on your left", and then always utter "thanks" when passing. If they're "stupid", I won't thank them but just ride past. Not worth the agitation.
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Old 07-19-11, 08:39 AM   #46
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Like Groucho Marx, I don't want to belong to any club that would have people like me as a member. I tend to ride solo.
Eggsackly, master yoda. I bow to your superior cynicism.
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Old 07-19-11, 10:21 AM   #47
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There is even a guy here on BF who will phrase it something like "On your left, ladies..." when he passes a paceline of guys. He keeps score on his rides of how many people he passes. Sigh. But it's all in how you say it. I'm a very polite rider, and tend to avoid things that can be construed as insulting. Looking back at someone after you pass them can do the same thing, so I don't look back.
Do you sit up and take a long drink from your water bottle?
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Old 07-19-11, 10:41 AM   #48
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There is even a guy here on BF who will phrase it something like "On your left, ladies..." when he passes a paceline of guys. He keeps score on his rides of how many people he passes. Sigh. But it's all in how you say it. I'm a very polite rider, and tend to avoid things that can be construed as insulting. Looking back at someone after you pass them can do the same thing, so I don't look back.
... and those ladies will call the proud conqueror by his full proper name of "Whata D***** Bag".
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Old 07-19-11, 10:43 AM   #49
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Do you sit up and take a long drink from your water bottle?
Of course.. with both hands to make it clear I don't need to use them to ride!

Truthfully, when my brothers and I were young, we always made it a point to be riding no hands whenever we passed someone.
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Old 07-20-11, 03:22 PM   #50
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to clarify

Maybe I should clarify my original post to this topic, I mentioned passing without a word because in my area theres a general attitude with riders that leads to some pretty stupid things happening on the road. One of these things is passing without any warning and its not a matter of friendliness to me but of safety, most don't say anything because they generally don't recognize other riders......its a competitive thing I guess? In passing, I always say something......why in the world wouldn't you? The reason for my mention of this in this thread about club rides, is because I think its a similar situation of the faster clubbers leaving the slower paced riders behind, they obviously find it more important to keep an advanced pace versus looking out for the other riders they may be leaving behind. I only ride with people that I know for sure are safe and have some level of maturity towards others.
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