Pace lines: Are we guilty of breaking the law?
#26
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It depends a lot on the nature of the paceline. Riders in a paceline will not work as hard as a solo rider going the same speed and distance. But riders tend to ride faster in pacelines and work just as hard as they would going it solo. Often riders in a paceline will be motivated to work even harder than they would riding solo so they can go even faster.
#27
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I think it's the rider who is doing his first century, stretching his range and ability to finish one in 8 or 9 hours.
#28
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Can think of two potential legal issues (to address the OP's question) other than required stops: following distance and lack of single file.
In a single paceline the lead rider will, after his pull, drop off to the side and drop back to the rear position, perhaps every few minutes. In Michigan it is not illegal to ride side-by-side, though IMO it is not generally a good idea due to potentially impeding the flow of traffic. I can't really say about other states. Probably one should consult Bob Mionske's book and see what his "national model" says, though it doesn't reflect the particular legal distinctions for all 50 states.
For following distance, we are tailgating. While for cars it may or may not be strictly illegal, it is not regarded as safe for non-interactive vehicles.
New technology may change that for cars, in the form of an automotive device called interactive adaptive cruise control. Adaptive cruise control uses forward-looking radar or lidar to detect the distance to the car ahead, and can automatically control the throttle to follow the car ahead at a generally safe distance. The interactive system can allow a stream of vehicles to react as a unit, forming a string of cars (called a "platoon") that draft each other. Following distances, about a car's length at highway speeds, are regulated electronically, ensuring the constant active control that would be needed. The benefits are that many more cars can transport on a given highway due to greater road occupancy, and (as in bikes) much better energy efficiency for those vehicles.
But due to fleet legacy issues, it might be 50 years before platooning is common in cars.
Despite the digression, I'm not sure single pacelines are illegal, though lengthy digressions soon may be.
In a single paceline the lead rider will, after his pull, drop off to the side and drop back to the rear position, perhaps every few minutes. In Michigan it is not illegal to ride side-by-side, though IMO it is not generally a good idea due to potentially impeding the flow of traffic. I can't really say about other states. Probably one should consult Bob Mionske's book and see what his "national model" says, though it doesn't reflect the particular legal distinctions for all 50 states.
For following distance, we are tailgating. While for cars it may or may not be strictly illegal, it is not regarded as safe for non-interactive vehicles.
New technology may change that for cars, in the form of an automotive device called interactive adaptive cruise control. Adaptive cruise control uses forward-looking radar or lidar to detect the distance to the car ahead, and can automatically control the throttle to follow the car ahead at a generally safe distance. The interactive system can allow a stream of vehicles to react as a unit, forming a string of cars (called a "platoon") that draft each other. Following distances, about a car's length at highway speeds, are regulated electronically, ensuring the constant active control that would be needed. The benefits are that many more cars can transport on a given highway due to greater road occupancy, and (as in bikes) much better energy efficiency for those vehicles.
But due to fleet legacy issues, it might be 50 years before platooning is common in cars.
Despite the digression, I'm not sure single pacelines are illegal, though lengthy digressions soon may be.
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In reading the very last sentence of the OP, I'd suspected there was a hope that digression would ensue.
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#30
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That, and the fact that a flying start is a second or more faster than a gun start.
#31
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Technically, pacelining could be construed as tailgating. But OTOH it sort of falls under 'established procedures,' which a judge may or may not accept as an excuse. I've never seen, or heard of, a tailgating ticket being issued for running a paceline.
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Consider this: A group of avid racers who drive cars hit the road for a weekend jaunt... They proceed to "draft" one another... Is there any doubt that this would violate each states equivalent of "driving too closely"?
The same situation occurs with pelatons/groups. One rides in a group, precisely, because the drafting allows each rider to go faster with less energy than they would alone... Again it is almost certainly a violation of the same "following too closely" laws... though I have never heard of a single instance of it being ticketed, yet...
Then you have double pacelines... In those areas that allow two abreast these will be breaking that law since the double paceline actually means four abreast as the leaders flow to the back...
And you have the issue of stop signs. Even those groups I have seen that actually stop at the stop signs, proceed through the stops then as a group, rather than individually as the law requires...
So yes, pacelines are legal violations. It is only a matter of time before those communities that are trying to discourage such groups get wise and start ticketing for all of the possibilities offered.
The same situation occurs with pelatons/groups. One rides in a group, precisely, because the drafting allows each rider to go faster with less energy than they would alone... Again it is almost certainly a violation of the same "following too closely" laws... though I have never heard of a single instance of it being ticketed, yet...
Then you have double pacelines... In those areas that allow two abreast these will be breaking that law since the double paceline actually means four abreast as the leaders flow to the back...
And you have the issue of stop signs. Even those groups I have seen that actually stop at the stop signs, proceed through the stops then as a group, rather than individually as the law requires...
So yes, pacelines are legal violations. It is only a matter of time before those communities that are trying to discourage such groups get wise and start ticketing for all of the possibilities offered.
#35
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As for a paceline, I'll pass, thank you. I don't trust myself to do it right, let alone trust everyone else. Since I ride for recreation, exploration, and exercise I don't need to save minutes or even an hour on most rides. I don't need the stress and I'd rather be able to look at my surroundings more than the wheel of the bike in front of me.
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#36
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#37
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I'm not sure why you say that, RF. The vehicle code clearly states that we can:
> 257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
>
> Sec. 660b.
>
> Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast
> except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.
>
I'd go further and say that this does not prohibit *passing* two riders that are abreast, only that it prohibits any more from staying in that configuration. Therefore, two more riders, dropping back, makes a max of 4 riders abreast at any given time, but since two of those are not *riding* alongside the others but being passed, it's allowed. I'm sure car drivers would not recognize the distinction, though; so it would be best to not rotate while cars are behind - even if an unoccupied 2nd lane exists.
> 257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
>
> Sec. 660b.
>
> Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast
> except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.
>
I'd go further and say that this does not prohibit *passing* two riders that are abreast, only that it prohibits any more from staying in that configuration. Therefore, two more riders, dropping back, makes a max of 4 riders abreast at any given time, but since two of those are not *riding* alongside the others but being passed, it's allowed. I'm sure car drivers would not recognize the distinction, though; so it would be best to not rotate while cars are behind - even if an unoccupied 2nd lane exists.
#38
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This is a little off the subject but is on pacelines.I have noticed this year people have been running pacelines on the bike path.It does not look like a good idea to me with alot of rec.bikers and kids and walkers and joggers and wildlife on the path.I saw a group of 8 sunday and they just about pulled out infront of me as they were attempting to pass someone on their side.
#39
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If your pace line is very long and it is stopped for a light or train, and the line is blocking a driveway, the line can be cited for impeding the flow of traffic if there are cars wanting to turn into the blocked driveway and are not allowed to do so by the pace line. However, I don't think any sane LEO would sit there and cite that many riders unless it's their first month on the job, it is an extremely slow day or you are riding through a very small town that needs the money. Although there are other traffic infractions that can a pace line can violate, it will most likely not be enforced as all the members are just as culpable and there aren't too many LEO's that are going to write that many citations. I never did.
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#40
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If your pace line is very long and it is stopped for a light or train, and the line is blocking a driveway, the line can be cited for impeding the flow of traffic if there are cars wanting to turn into the blocked driveway and are not allowed to do so by the pace line. However, I don't think any sane LEO would sit there and cite that many riders unless it's their first month on the job, it is an extremely slow day or you are riding through a very small town that needs the money. Although there are other traffic infractions that can a pace line can violate, it will most likely not be enforced as all the members are just as culpable and there aren't too many LEO's that are going to write that many citations. I never did.
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Check your states road laws. In most states, cars aren't suppose to block driveways either. It's one of those laws that don't get enforced. If you are on a two lane street coming to a stop with a driveway on your right, you are suppose to stop before the driveway to allow for left hand turns. Not doing so impedes traffic in the opposite direction if someone is turning left and you have the driveway blocked. As I said, it is never enforced unless you are in a small town where they cite you for everything under the sun since it's their way of collecting revenue. The fact that cars do it now, doesn't make it legal, it just means that no one is enforcing that statue.
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#42
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To the OPs original question…I’m not aware of it being illegal but I suppose an officer could press the issue and say vehicles are following too close. In all the years and miles of riding pacelines I (we) have been observed by a number of law enforcement folks and were never stopped. Certainly have known folks who have been stopped for running stop signs and lights. Off topic a bit, a pacelines can be challenging, fun and dangerous. I have made it a policy to break away (drop off the back) of any paceline who is joined by a rider or group of riders who do not typically ride with the paceline. One of the worst wrecks I was ever in was caused by a group of three riders which hooked up to our paceline, then when they moved to the front they overlapped and kissed tires. About 8 of us went down and 5 had to wait on a SAG.
#43
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I went back and read the op's original question. His question was: Are we breaking the law in a pace line by not giving the vehicle in front of us; aka the lead bike; enough space cushion. As far as motor vehicles are concerned, tailgating is considered aggressive driving that couldbe interpreted as reckless driving. So the op has a good point. In a paceline cyclists are tailgating each other therefore braking the law by driving recklessly. The Texas drivers handbook says cyclists are to obey the same laws as motor vehicles. So to interpret the law literally... We are brakeing the law in a paceline by not giving enough space cushion to the other vehicles on the roadway. My 2 cents...
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But just like a motor vehicle, you don't see too many LEO's pulling someone over for following too close. These citations are usually given after a collision has occurred. Being a reserve deputy for 18 years, I have never head anyone in our department cite someone on a bicycle for following too close, just as I have never heard of anyone getting a citation for a pace line blocking a driveway while stopped for a control signal, which is also on the books as being illegal.
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#45
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But just like a motor vehicle, you don't see too many LEO's pulling someone over for following too close. These citations are usually given after a collision has occurred. Being a reserve deputy for 18 years, I have never head anyone in our department cite someone on a bicycle for following too close, just as I have never heard of anyone getting a citation for a pace line blocking a driveway while stopped for a control signal, which is also on the books as being illegal.
#46
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I have a hard time understanding why the pace line cyclists would in the first place. I never even consider it riding alone. Blocking a driveway would be crazy, to put it mildly. So why do they feel that a pace line makes it more appropriate, or safer? Is it a gang mentality "you can only shoot one of us" kind of thing? Is it that conforming to the group rules, even where it is irrelevant and counterproductive, is more important legalities and social norms?
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I don't think it's "you can only shoot one of us" thinking at all. That's a pretty cynical view of the situation. Motorcades exist for a variety of reasons. Most, however, have to do with keeping all of the vehicles together during the trip that is being made. It's not much more complicated than that for cyclist. I suspect even being aware of the driveways discussed in the prior posts just isn't something that happens all that often for motorcades or pace lines. Perhaps my view of human nature is a more positive one, but I see no intended malice.
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A pace line is not a funeral or government motorcade. One wouldn't block driveways with a family reunion driving out to the lake for example. Your opinion is evidently that they aren't even aware of it. That doesn't really make sense, unless it's the pack mentality thing again. How could you be aware of it cycling alone and not aware of it in a group, were that not so? It really is irrelevant you know, because cars pulling out aren't going to split up the pack at the relatively slow speeds after the light. I still don't get this mind-set.
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#49
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In a flying, or relay start, the swimmer starts his racing dive early, timed so that his toes leave the starting block at the instant the swimmer coming in touches the wall. Like drafting in cycling, it requires a certain trust in the teammate, because a late touch will disqualify the entire relay team. I always figured it was good for 1 to 1.5 seconds, which is significant since most relay events are short.
#50
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If you're following too closely to stop, then yeah, you're breaking the law.
One my HS buddies is a state trooper near Austin. He put it this way..." you guys on bikes want to be treated like vehicles, with all the rights to ride in traffic and have people treat you with respect. Then you get out here in packs and ride six inches off each other's wheels at 30 mph and sometimes things go really wrong and someone gets badly hurt. It's pretty hard to feel sorry for you when five people crash into each other because they were following too closely".
One my HS buddies is a state trooper near Austin. He put it this way..." you guys on bikes want to be treated like vehicles, with all the rights to ride in traffic and have people treat you with respect. Then you get out here in packs and ride six inches off each other's wheels at 30 mph and sometimes things go really wrong and someone gets badly hurt. It's pretty hard to feel sorry for you when five people crash into each other because they were following too closely".