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Old 07-25-11, 12:22 PM   #1
Sculptor7
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Our hardest working club member struck by an idot driver.

Just learned that a woman from our club who is, as far as I can see, one of the most dedicated club members, was struck down by an imbecile making an illegal left turn during a tour ride. Fractures to jaw and eye socket and injuries to both knees. Obviously a lot more needs to be done to educate and civilize the auto driving public.
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Old 07-25-11, 12:35 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear this, i will keep her in my prayers.Get well soon.
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Old 07-25-11, 05:10 PM   #3
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This is sad to hear, and I think you are correct about the driver education. When I was a very young driver, someone pointed out to me that is nearly impossible for a motorist to gauge the speed at which an oncoming motorcyclist is traveling. Since then, I have always waited for the motorcyclist to pass before I turn or pull out. I often get an appreciative nod from the motorcyclists as they pass. If motorists gave the same courtesy to bicyclists, there might be fewer of these stories. Best wishes to your friend.
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Old 07-25-11, 05:20 PM   #4
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So very sorry to hear that. Best wishes to her for a complete recovery.
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Old 07-25-11, 05:47 PM   #5
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Glad to see that you didn't insult the idiot drivers out there, they take enough heat and don't need to be included with the idot drivers. Tell your friend to get well and get riding.

Last edited by overthehillmedi; 07-25-11 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 07-25-11, 05:55 PM   #6
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Just learned that a woman from our club who is, as far as I can see, one of the most dedicated club members, was struck down by an imbecile making an illegal left turn during a tour ride. Fractures to jaw and eye socket and injuries to both knees. Obviously a lot more needs to be done to educate and civilize the auto driving public.
Your right, a drivers licence is way too easy to obtain and retain. You should require 100 hours of classroom training, 100 hours of simulator training, and 250 hours of driving with a licensed instructor and an additional 750 hours with a licensed driver. That gets you a level 1 licence, which means no driving on freeways, no driving at night, no passengers (unless a fully licensed driver is in the vehicle) and if you are pulled over with ANY alcohol/drugs, you need to wait 3 years and then start all over. After you log another 2000 hours, you can take the test for a level 2 licence, and after another 4000 hours, you can take the test for a full licence. The test for a full licence requires driving under difficult conditions in a simulator, which throws every possible danger at you, including the final hazard, 25mm of freezing rain with a 2cm layer of snow on top.

Every 5 years in order to renew your licence you should need to pass a written test, every 15 years you need to pass that simulator test for a full license as well. If you get caught drunk driving, kiss your licence goodbye, you need to wait 5 years and then can start all over at the beginning, with the classroom training.
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Old 07-25-11, 06:01 PM   #7
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Your right, a drivers licence is way too easy to obtain and retain. You should require 100 hours of classroom training, 100 hours of simulator training, and 250 hours of driving with a licensed instructor and an additional 750 hours with a licensed driver. That gets you a level 1 licence, which means no driving on freeways, no driving at night, no passengers (unless a fully licensed driver is in the vehicle) and if you are pulled over with ANY alcohol/drugs, you need to wait 3 years and then start all over. After you log another 2000 hours, you can take the test for a level 2 licence, and after another 4000 hours, you can take the test for a full licence. The test for a full licence requires driving under difficult conditions in a simulator, which throws every possible danger at you, including the final hazard, 25mm of freezing rain with a 2cm layer of snow on top.

Every 5 years in order to renew your licence you should need to pass a written test, every 15 years you need to pass that simulator test for a full license as well. If you get caught drunk driving, kiss your licence goodbye, you need to wait 5 years and then can start all over at the beginning, with the classroom training.
Or you can invest half that time to become a commercial pilot and take a taxi to work.
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Old 07-25-11, 06:49 PM   #8
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While I agree it's far too easy to obtain a license it's the lack of penalties that costs so dearly. They feel free to go out and drive as they always have. There are mistakes and that is the Judge's job to ascertain. If you injure another from negligence or plain stupidity the fines should be staggering. No getting off easy. The gub'ment needs cash and will take it one way or another lets have it go for the common good.

And here's to you're associate heeling well and fast.
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Old 07-25-11, 06:58 PM   #9
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That absolutely sucks. I must say that this is the same type of stupidity that motorcyclists face every day as well. Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Just one more act of stupidity that continues to piss me off.
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Old 07-25-11, 07:03 PM   #10
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Best wishes to her.
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Old 07-25-11, 07:09 PM   #11
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Best wishes to her. My one and only close encounter of the wrong kind w/ a motor vehicle was a similar left-cross, in which a motorist turned into her driveway, crossing my path in the process. Her insurance company offered a quick and low settlement, which I negotiated up another 20-25% before signing. I could have used an attorney, but probably would have netted the same amount after paying his cut of the take.
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Old 07-25-11, 07:17 PM   #12
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Glad to see that you didn't insult the idiot drivers out there, they take enogh heat and don't need to be included with the idot drivers. Tell your friend to get well and get riding.
Spelling is easy for me. Typing when I am really angry is not.
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Old 07-25-11, 08:00 PM   #13
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Here is one of the best things I've learned from BF: The human brain is hardwired to see faces (that part I knew). That's why people see Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich. When a car is approaching from the front or side and might be on an intersecting path, turn your head to look directly at the driver. Even if the driver isn't looking for you (because he's looking for cars, not bikes), his brain might pick up on your face and he'll notice you. Sure won't prevent every crash, but it might prevent a few.
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Old 07-25-11, 08:28 PM   #14
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Here is one of the best things I've learned from BF: The human brain is hardwired to see faces (that part I knew). That's why people see Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich. When a car is approaching from the front or side and might be on an intersecting path, turn your head to look directly at the driver. Even if the driver isn't looking for you (because he's looking for cars, not bikes), his brain might pick up on your face and he'll notice you. Sure won't prevent every crash, but it might prevent a few.
I teach drivers ed and the most common reasons for cyclist/motorist collisions all stem from the fact that the motorist just does not see the bicyclist, so you have a valid point. As a cyclist, we should always be on the defensive when the closing probability between bike and vehicle increases. Eye contact is a way to be sure the motorist sees you when cycling.
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Old 07-25-11, 08:40 PM   #15
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I teach drivers ed and the most common reasons for cyclist/motorist collisions all stem from the fact that the motorist just does not see the bicyclist, so you have a valid point. As a cyclist, we should always be on the defensive when the closing probability between bike and vehicle increases. Eye contact is a way to be sure the motorist sees you when cycling.
That is absolutely incorrect and I sure hope that's not what you are teaching new drivers.

The hospital ERs are *full* of motorcyclists repeating the same story: "S/he looked me straight in the eye and pulled out in front of me." Eye contact != "seeing".

KeS
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Old 07-25-11, 09:05 PM   #16
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When riding/driving anything you must believe they are trying to kill you. If they pull in front of trains every day what makes you think they'll see you? Only reason I've made it so long riding motorcycles or bicycles.
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Old 07-25-11, 09:46 PM   #17
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Sculptor7, A speedy and full recovery wish for your friend.

I ride my bicycles and motorcycles on the street and I don't think people are out to harm me on purpose, they're just not enough drivers that are good enough to notice me.

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Old 07-25-11, 10:09 PM   #18
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Wishing her a speedy recovery.

Drivers don't yield to approaching Fire and Police vehicles with all their warning equipment activated, let alone someone on a bicycle.
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Old 07-25-11, 10:22 PM   #19
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I too wish her a speedy recovery! I know full well what she is going through, and I am sorry that her injuries are so severe. As one "wounded warrior" to another - get well quickly!
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Old 07-26-11, 04:52 AM   #20
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That's really very unfortunate. I hope her recovery is full and quick.
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Old 07-26-11, 06:58 AM   #21
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That is absolutely incorrect and I sure hope that's not what you are teaching new drivers.

The hospital ERs are *full* of motorcyclists repeating the same story: "S/he looked me straight in the eye and pulled out in front of me." Eye contact != "seeing".

KeS
What are you teaching them?
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Old 07-26-11, 08:58 AM   #22
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Is there an article to go along with this thread? Before I hate on idot drivers, I like to have some facts.
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Old 07-26-11, 09:00 AM   #23
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What are you teaching them?
I'm *not* teaching them things that will get them killed. "First do no harm."

Your implication is that because you're a driving instructor and I'm not, that I'm not in a position to criticize what is being instructed. I reject that - the fallacy of "eye contact" is well known and established. If that's what you're teaching new drivers, you're setting them (and me) up for catastrophic failure.

I don't have to be a driving instructor to have a valid opinion and vested interest in the topic. Although, I do a significant amount of motorcycle training and mentoring. And I'm not really interested in getting more PMs from you saying I'm being rude.
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Old 07-26-11, 09:40 AM   #24
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I'm *not* teaching them things that will get them killed. "First do no harm."

Your implication is that because you're a driving instructor and I'm not, that I'm not in a position to criticize what is being instructed. I reject that - the fallacy of "eye contact" is well known and established. If that's what you're teaching new drivers, you're setting them (and me) up for catastrophic failure.

I don't have to be a driving instructor to have a valid opinion and vested interest in the topic. Although, I do a significant amount of motorcycle training and mentoring. And I'm not really interested in getting more PMs from you saying I'm being rude.
So what do you suggest I teach them to handle the situation?
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Old 07-26-11, 09:46 AM   #25
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I'm *not* teaching them things that will get them killed. "First do no harm."

Your implication is that because you're a driving instructor and I'm not, that I'm not in a position to criticize what is being instructed. I reject that - the fallacy of "eye contact" is well known and established. If that's what you're teaching new drivers, you're setting them (and me) up for catastrophic failure.

I don't have to be a driving instructor to have a valid opinion and vested interest in the topic. Although, I do a significant amount of motorcycle training and mentoring. And I'm not really interested in getting more PMs from you saying I'm being rude.
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So what do you suggest I teach them to handle the situation?
It seems to me this argument is being painted with very broad strokes. I would suggest taking a deep breath and not taking things so personally. Attacks rarely contribute much of a constructive nature.

Additionally, it sure hijacks a thread that was probably not posted for the purpose of heading in this direction.
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