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Old 09-09-11, 01:44 PM   #1
cranky old dude
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Remembering 9/11

I took a little 30 mile cruise today and came upon this Memorial down at the lake.

"Mission: 343"




It's hard to see in this pic, but each flag has a fallen firefighter's or emergency responder's name attached to it.




Here's some media coverage of the Memorial...

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s2271440.shtml?cat=565

http://www.13wham.com/news/local/sto...w.cspx?rss=102


As I was working my way home I stumbled upon another Memorial in the Town of Greece.

Smaller flags but the same big message...






Now I'm working all day Saturday and Sunday so I'll miss the several services being held, but I will be proudly displaying Old Glory.



There must be thousands of these memorials across the country. Has anyone else visited some?

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Old 09-09-11, 02:03 PM   #2
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I rode by all today. The smaller flags were just going up.
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Old 09-09-11, 02:14 PM   #3
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Thats awesome Cranky Old Dude! I will be flying my stars and stripes in the same fashion on my bike!
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Old 09-09-11, 02:40 PM   #4
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C' O' Dude,

Good post. Off topic, are you going to Frozen Fenway? If so, I'll buy the beer.
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Old 09-09-11, 06:55 PM   #5
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Unfortunately the numbers are somewhat in error.

The 343 number is those members of the NYFD either as firefighters (341) or EMS (2).

Plus 23 NYPD, 37 from the Port Authority PD (the buildings were owned and operated by the Port Authority of NY and NJ, which has it's own police force). Then there were 8 EMT's and emergency personnel not affiliated with government agencies.

All told 411 rescuers lost at the WTC with all statistics provided by WiKi but confirmed elsewhere.


I had the privilage of working the first NYFD new firefighter, academy graduation in 11/2001 at the theater where I am the lighting director. A number of those firefighters killed at the WTC were "probies" who had as yet to officially graduate from the academy but as part of their education had been placed in line serving units and as such, responded to the attacks.

The families of those probational firefighters were called up during the ceremony to receive the graduation diploma for the deceased hero's.

Everybody in theater, Mayor Guiliani, the NYFD commisioner, the new chief of the department (who replaced Pete Ganci, who was killed), as well as the department chaplain, replacing Mike Judge, also killed and both of whom I knew from years of these 3 times per year graduations, were crying. As was everybody backstage. Myself included as I do now as I recall the raw emotions of those days after 9/11.

As I typed this my wife asked me why I was upset and I told her. She too started to cry as she recalled working at Saturday Night Live (she's a scenic artist) the night SNL resumed and they had Paul Simon singing "The Boxer" with Rudy as well as Ray Kelly standing along side on stage. Everybody on stage cried - stagehands, camermen, cast, audience, everybody in the studio.

I had been, up to this moment, ambivalent about the 10 year anniversary ceremonies. I chalked that up to a feeling that "I didn't really "know" anyone that died. Forgetting how difficult a time it was to be living in the NYC area (a feeling I'm certain was not determined by proximity) and always finding at every turn, something that connected you to those moments. 10 years later I still cry over those days. Not ashamed to admit it either.

Last edited by Steve B.; 09-09-11 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 09-09-11, 09:37 PM   #6
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Before we get cariried away with "flying old glory," consider that as a result of the 9/11 attacks, the USA invaded, illegally and unprovoked, a sovereign nation, Iraq, killing over the next several years hundreds of thousands of peope who had nothing to do with 9/11 or the fanatics who planned and executed those attacks. That the 9/11 attacks were horrible, detestable, and downright evil is not in doubt. What is in doubt is all this "remembering" that we're supposed to be doing while ignoring our own culpability in our international policies. How many innocent people, to include women, children,and the elderly, has the USA killed in Iraq and Afghanistan under the pretext of "defending" freedom. While the people who died in the 9/11 attacks did not do anything to deserve their fate, neither did a far greater number of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It appears to me that the media is turning this ten year anniversary (and what's so special about ten years as opposed to eight or nine?) into some kind of sentimental, patriotic circus. I'm sure the TV will be showing plenty of closeups of people with tears in their eyes. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do when I see this. The televised broadcasts of people who are truly emotionally upset to the point of tears seems to me a cheapening of that emotion, appealing to some voyeuristic impulse in those who watch. The media ought to exercise a little taste for a change, but as usual, emotions attract viewers, and that's what TV is all about.

A quiet, dignified ceremony honoring those who lost their lives on 9/11 might be more appropriate. It would certainly be in better taste.

The best thing that the USA can do to honor those killed on 9/11 is to uphold those values upon which our country is supposedly founded. Truth and justice for all are two that come immediately to mind. We have a lot of housekeeping to do right here at home with these two values, not to mention in the international arena. And perhaps we should demonstrate a true respect for those killed by not turning the anniversary into some national media event.

The true patriot is not the one who falls into line by accepting government propaganda as truth or who advocates the governments policies simply becuase they are the government's policies. The true patriot is the one who examines policies and actions with critical intelligence, approving or disapproving as the case demands.

I, too am saddened by what happened on 9/11, but there is nothing that I can do about something that has already happened. What I can do is live in such a way that contributes to the building of a world based on fairness, justice, kindness, and peaceful coexistence.
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Old 09-09-11, 10:31 PM   #7
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Unfortunately the numbers are somewhat in error.

The 343 number is those members of the NYFD either as firefighters (341) or EMS (2).

Plus 23 NYPD, 37 from the Port Authority PD (the buildings were owned and operated by the Port Authority of NY and NJ, which has it's own police force). Then there were 8 EMT's and emergency personnel not affiliated with government agencies.

All told 411 rescuers lost at the WTC with all statistics provided by WiKi but confirmed elsewhere.


I had the privilage of working the first NYFD new firefighter, academy graduation in 11/2001 at the theater where I am the lighting director. A number of those firefighters killed at the WTC were "probies" who had as yet to officially graduate from the academy but as part of their education had been placed in line serving units and as such, responded to the attacks.

The families of those probational firefighters were called up during the ceremony to receive the graduation diploma for the deceased hero's.

Everybody in theater, Mayor Guiliani, the NYFD commisioner, the new chief of the department (who replaced Pete Ganci, who was killed), as well as the department chaplain, replacing Mike Judge, also killed and both of whom I knew from years of these 3 times per year graduations, were crying. As was everybody backstage. Myself included as I do now as I recall the raw emotions of those days after 9/11.

As I typed this my wife asked me why I was upset and I told her. She too started to cry as she recalled working at Saturday Night Live (she's a scenic artist) the night SNL resumed and they had Paul Simon singing "The Boxer" with Rudy as well as Ray Kelly standing along side on stage. Everybody on stage cried - stagehands, camermen, cast, audience, everybody in the studio.

I had been, up to this moment, ambivalent about the 10 year anniversary ceremonies. I chalked that up to a feeling that "I didn't really "know" anyone that died. Forgetting how difficult a time it was to be living in the NYC area (a feeling I'm certain was not determined by proximity) and always finding at every turn, something that connected you to those moments. 10 years later I still cry over those days. Not ashamed to admit it either.
Thanks for posting this prospective, being there must have been so hard. So sorry.
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Old 09-09-11, 10:38 PM   #8
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Before we get cariried away with "flying old glory," consider that as a result of the 9/11 attacks, the USA invaded, illegally and unprovoked, a sovereign nation, Iraq, killing over the next several years hundreds of thousands of peope who had nothing to do with 9/11 or the fanatics who planned and executed those attacks. That the 9/11 attacks were horrible, detestable, and downright evil is not in doubt. What is in doubt is all this "remembering" that we're supposed to be doing while ignoring our own culpability in our international policies. How many innocent people, to include women, children,and the elderly, has the USA killed in Iraq and Afghanistan under the pretext of "defending" freedom. While the people who died in the 9/11 attacks did not do anything to deserve their fate, neither did a far greater number of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It appears to me that the media is turning this ten year anniversary (and what's so special about ten years as opposed to eight or nine?) into some kind of sentimental, patriotic circus. I'm sure the TV will be showing plenty of closeups of people with tears in their eyes. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do when I see this. The televised broadcasts of people who are truly emotionally upset to the point of tears seems to me a cheapening of that emotion, appealing to some voyeuristic impulse in those who watch. The media ought to exercise a little taste for a change, but as usual, emotions attract viewers, and that's what TV is all about.

A quiet, dignified ceremony honoring those who lost their lives on 9/11 might be more appropriate. It would certainly be in better taste.

The best thing that the USA can do to honor those killed on 9/11 is to uphold those values upon which our country is supposedly founded. Truth and justice for all are two that come immediately to mind. We have a lot of housekeeping to do right here at home with these two values, not to mention in the international arena. And perhaps we should demonstrate a true respect for those killed by not turning the anniversary into some national media event.

The true patriot is not the one who falls into line by accepting government propaganda as truth or who advocates the governments policies simply becuase they are the government's policies. The true patriot is the one who examines policies and actions with critical intelligence, approving or disapproving as the case demands.

I, too am saddened by what happened on 9/11, but there is nothing that I can do about something that has already happened. What I can do is live in such a way that contributes to the building of a world based on fairness, justice, kindness, and peaceful coexistence.
I couldn't agree with this more, thanks for putting this into words. All of the years after 9/11 the bush administration kept the fear level artificially high, kept telling us that we are sure to be "hit again" as Cheney was fond of saying. Shame on people this low. Trillions spent on this would have easily paid for good healthcare for all and fully fund education, but it didn't. Maybe we'll learn from this history, or we'll let someone rewrite it.
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Old 09-09-11, 11:03 PM   #9
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As I expected, I couldn't read ten posts in a 50+ thread on 9/11 without someone rubbishing the US.
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Old 09-10-11, 12:08 AM   #10
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This is why there is a Politics and Religion forum folks.
Fifty + is a quiet little corner where older people can gather to discuss their bikes and rides and anything else they have in common.
I neither need nor want to know that some of the people I admire for their knowledge and wit have political views that can send me up the wall.
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Old 09-10-11, 03:39 AM   #11
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343 NYC firemen rushed into hell and never came back. These people are heros! Whether the Towers had come down due to a catastropic ocurance such as an earthquake, huricane, or natural gas explosion....those firefighters would still have stormed in and we would still be honoring their memory. Let's don't confuse their sacrifices and the sacrifices of their families with politics.

This kind of dedication, bravery, and heroism should be honored regardless of what nation it occurs in. Had it been Canada or Mexico for example, I'ld fly their Colors in tribute!

I stand by my first post and beg you folks to post your political views elsewhere.

Thank You.

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Old 09-10-11, 03:53 AM   #12
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What a heart wrenching time. There are many nations that owe America an unpayable debt of Freedom. God Bless America and God Bless the Stars and Stripes. From Wales.
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Old 09-10-11, 06:58 AM   #13
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Before we get cariried away with "flying old glory," consider that as a result of the 9/11 attacks, the USA invaded, illegally and unprovoked, a sovereign nation, Iraq, killing over the next several years hundreds of thousands of peope who had nothing to do with 9/11 or the fanatics who planned and executed those attacks. That the 9/11 attacks were horrible, detestable, and downright evil is not in doubt. What is in doubt is all this "remembering" that we're supposed to be doing while ignoring our own culpability in our international policies. How many innocent people, to include women, children,and the elderly, has the USA killed in Iraq and Afghanistan under the pretext of "defending" freedom. While the people who died in the 9/11 attacks did not do anything to deserve their fate, neither did a far greater number of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It appears to me that the media is turning this ten year anniversary (and what's so special about ten years as opposed to eight or nine?) into some kind of sentimental, patriotic circus. I'm sure the TV will be showing plenty of closeups of people with tears in their eyes. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do when I see this. The televised broadcasts of people who are truly emotionally upset to the point of tears seems to me a cheapening of that emotion, appealing to some voyeuristic impulse in those who watch. The media ought to exercise a little taste for a change, but as usual, emotions attract viewers, and that's what TV is all about.

A quiet, dignified ceremony honoring those who lost their lives on 9/11 might be more appropriate. It would certainly be in better taste.

The best thing that the USA can do to honor those killed on 9/11 is to uphold those values upon which our country is supposedly founded. Truth and justice for all are two that come immediately to mind. We have a lot of housekeeping to do right here at home with these two values, not to mention in the international arena. And perhaps we should demonstrate a true respect for those killed by not turning the anniversary into some national media event.

The true patriot is not the one who falls into line by accepting government propaganda as truth or who advocates the governments policies simply becuase they are the government's policies. The true patriot is the one who examines policies and actions with critical intelligence, approving or disapproving as the case demands.

I, too am saddened by what happened on 9/11, but there is nothing that I can do about something that has already happened. What I can do is live in such a way that contributes to the building of a world based on fairness, justice, kindness, and peaceful coexistence.
Without diminishing the respect of those lives lost, this is far and away the most intelligent post I have read on these forums. Critical thinking at its best.
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Old 09-10-11, 07:21 AM   #14
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We lost friends on both the flights that went into the North and South towers. Both happen to have been flight attendants. One we knew was flying that day, the other we found out about later. Too many people died on that day, period.

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Old 09-10-11, 08:03 AM   #15
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This is why there is a Politics and Religion forum folks.
Fifty + is a quiet little corner where older people can gather to discuss their bikes and rides and anything else they have in common.
I neither need nor want to know that some of the people I admire for their knowledge and wit have political views that can send me up the wall.
Agreed. Let's get back to riding our bikes and talking bike things and steer away from the current topic or this thread will be off to P&R in a heartbeat.
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Old 09-10-11, 11:41 AM   #16
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Agreed. Let's get back to riding our bikes and talking bike things and steer away from the current topic or this thread will be off to P&R in a heartbeat.
Things are only considered political on 50+ when someone disagrees with the left-wing consensus.
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Old 09-10-11, 12:23 PM   #17
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excellent.
How anyone can disagree with a post like this is just sick.
Libs just can't help themselves. Pray for them.
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Old 09-10-11, 01:16 PM   #18
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I tried to present a respectful post honoring NYC's fallen firemen. Apparently my communication skills are somewhat lacking (no college degree here) as I have failed miserably. I'm sorry I ever even started this thread as the skills to do so properly obviously elude me.

That a group of folks our age would fail to recognize and respect the purpose of this thread in spite of my literary shortcomings causes me pause.

Time to find a new sandbox I think.

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Old 09-10-11, 02:00 PM   #19
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I tried to present a respectful post honoring NYC's fallen firemen. Apparently my communication skills are somewhat lacking (no college degree here) as I have failed miserably. I'm sorry I ever even started this thread as the skills to do so properly obviously elude me.

That a group of folks our age would fail to grasp the purpose of this thread in spite of my literary shortcomings causes me pause.

Time to find a new sandbox I think.
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Old 09-10-11, 02:11 PM   #20
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It is not your fault. Thank you for having the courage to care.
Ditto that.

I don't live near any of the 'ground zero' locations, or a memorial, so I'll pay my respects nearby, at the East Vincent Revolutionary War cemetery:


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Old 09-10-11, 02:32 PM   #21
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Agree. All that flag waving idiocy is what allowed our corrupt scumbag politicians to get us into these horrific wars with incredible loss of life, misery, and national treasure not to mention the destruction of our rights. I spent most of my life in the Marine Corps with multiple combat tours and enough wounds to finally require a medical discharge. I've never seen anyone wave a flag on a battlefield. There are other ways to remember the dead of 9/11 without more foolish nationalism. Those of us who have fought and are fighting these wars have had enough of the sunshine patriots and the chickenhawks.

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Before we get cariried away with "flying old glory," consider that as a result of the 9/11 attacks, the USA invaded, illegally and unprovoked, a sovereign nation, Iraq, killing over the next several years hundreds of thousands of peope who had nothing to do with 9/11 or the fanatics who planned and executed those attacks. That the 9/11 attacks were horrible, detestable, and downright evil is not in doubt. What is in doubt is all this "remembering" that we're supposed to be doing while ignoring our own culpability in our international policies. How many innocent people, to include women, children,and the elderly, has the USA killed in Iraq and Afghanistan under the pretext of "defending" freedom. While the people who died in the 9/11 attacks did not do anything to deserve their fate, neither did a far greater number of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It appears to me that the media is turning this ten year anniversary (and what's so special about ten years as opposed to eight or nine?) into some kind of sentimental, patriotic circus. I'm sure the TV will be showing plenty of closeups of people with tears in their eyes. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do when I see this. The televised broadcasts of people who are truly emotionally upset to the point of tears seems to me a cheapening of that emotion, appealing to some voyeuristic impulse in those who watch. The media ought to exercise a little taste for a change, but as usual, emotions attract viewers, and that's what TV is all about.

A quiet, dignified ceremony honoring those who lost their lives on 9/11 might be more appropriate. It would certainly be in better taste.

The best thing that the USA can do to honor those killed on 9/11 is to uphold those values upon which our country is supposedly founded. Truth and justice for all are two that come immediately to mind. We have a lot of housekeeping to do right here at home with these two values, not to mention in the international arena. And perhaps we should demonstrate a true respect for those killed by not turning the anniversary into some national media event.

The true patriot is not the one who falls into line by accepting government propaganda as truth or who advocates the governments policies simply becuase they are the government's policies. The true patriot is the one who examines policies and actions with critical intelligence, approving or disapproving as the case demands.

I, too am saddened by what happened on 9/11, but there is nothing that I can do about something that has already happened. What I can do is live in such a way that contributes to the building of a world based on fairness, justice, kindness, and peaceful coexistence.
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Old 09-10-11, 02:41 PM   #22
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At the time I was a volunteer firefighter and lead medic in a suburban/rural ems setting. My immediate thought was to wonder how it happened and to respect the people who exemplified the best in our service tradition. I still have my "We Won't Forget" hat. Neither I nor the rest of the people who are serving, or who have served, will forget those who have been injured or killed while doing their duty. That includes not only those on that day, but those on every other day. For me and many others the phrase "Duty, Honor, Country" is not just a slogan.

At the same time I have extreme distaste for the current media driven displays. The net effect of them is to reinforce the image that the most influential leader of the past many years is Osama bin Laden. After participating in a successful fight to defeat the Russians and have them retreat from Afganistan he led a successful strike on the US that caused the US to fundamentally change its' society. it also led to the longest war in US history that has claimed the lives and treasures of many thousand people; many of whom had no desire other than to live their lives as best they knew how.

To me the media, and for that matter all of us, can best memorialize those who have given by doing our best to continue to make our country one that matters. Not one whose moral and economic wealth was squandered on fruitless endeavours. Remember, shed a tear and put those hands back on the plow. Poor countries have poor influence. We don't want America to be one of them.
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Old 09-10-11, 02:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Unfortunately the numbers are somewhat in error.

The 343 number is those members of the NYFD either as firefighters (341) or EMS (2).

Plus 23 NYPD, 37 from the Port Authority PD (the buildings were owned and operated by the Port Authority of NY and NJ, which has it's own police force). Then there were 8 EMT's and emergency personnel not affiliated with government agencies.

All told 411 rescuers lost at the WTC with all statistics provided by WiKi but confirmed elsewhere.


I had the privilage of working the first NYFD new firefighter, academy graduation in 11/2001 at the theater where I am the lighting director. A number of those firefighters killed at the WTC were "probies" who had as yet to officially graduate from the academy but as part of their education had been placed in line serving units and as such, responded to the attacks.

The families of those probational firefighters were called up during the ceremony to receive the graduation diploma for the deceased hero's.

Everybody in theater, Mayor Guiliani, the NYFD commisioner, the new chief of the department (who replaced Pete Ganci, who was killed), as well as the department chaplain, replacing Mike Judge, also killed and both of whom I knew from years of these 3 times per year graduations, were crying. As was everybody backstage. Myself included as I do now as I recall the raw emotions of those days after 9/11.

As I typed this my wife asked me why I was upset and I told her. She too started to cry as she recalled working at Saturday Night Live (she's a scenic artist) the night SNL resumed and they had Paul Simon singing "The Boxer" with Rudy as well as Ray Kelly standing along side on stage. Everybody on stage cried - stagehands, camermen, cast, audience, everybody in the studio.

I had been, up to this moment, ambivalent about the 10 year anniversary ceremonies. I chalked that up to a feeling that "I didn't really "know" anyone that died. Forgetting how difficult a time it was to be living in the NYC area (a feeling I'm certain was not determined by proximity) and always finding at every turn, something that connected you to those moments. 10 years later I still cry over those days. Not ashamed to admit it either.
Yes its a very weird feeling in NYC this weekend isn't it?
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Old 09-10-11, 02:55 PM   #24
Steve B.
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Originally Posted by Aussie_Al View Post
Yes its a very weird feeling in NYC this weekend isn't it?
Yes. Like everybody is holding their collective breathes. Very much wondering if all the security measures have been effective and hoping the other shoe doesn't fall,

On the other hand, I'm working an event on Sunday that has nothing to do with 9/11 memorials, go figure.
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Old 09-10-11, 02:55 PM   #25
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Those who make political comments in this thread only succeed showing bad judgment, demonstrating that at least one person who holds their position has bad judgment.

Those who made political comments in this thread would do well to remove them asap.
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