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  1. #1
    Senior Member xizangstan's Avatar
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    ETHICS IN SPORTSMANSHIP (or the lack thereof)

    Big money in professional sports, product endorsements, etc. can sure corrupt simple sports like bicycling. I saw this in this morning's news...

    *****

    American Cyclist Landis Convicted in France Over Doping Lab Hacking
    Published November 10, 2011
    | Associated Press


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/1...#ixzz1dJLe6Hgx
    Who is John Galt?

  2. #2
    Man of constant sorrow Dudelsack's Avatar
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    "Landis" and "ethics" don't seem to belong in the same paragraph.

  3. #3
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    Professional "sports" is a business.

    As for business ethics... Some have it, some don't.
    "Why is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a barbecue?" Anonymous

  4. #4
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Very sad in any case.
    2012 Pedal Force CG2: "Secolo Bicicletta" the modern carbon fiber road bike
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    Is the term "business ethics" an oxymoron?

  6. #6
    Senior Member az_cyclist's Avatar
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    seems kind of odd to give him a suspended sentence

  7. #7
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    The use of performance enhancing drugs has been endemic in bike racing since the early years of the TDF. It's virtually certain that all the historic cycling greats doped. Many have said as much. And as many have said, if others are doing it, you need to do it too to level the playing field. What ever you think of Landis with all his foibles, he just happens to be one who got caught.

    I'll mention that USAF pilots flying long missions are given and use amphetamines to maintain alertness and performance. That's doping in the name of national security.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatW View Post
    Is the term "business ethics" an oxymoron?
    Ya got yer good ethics, and ya got yer bad ethics... Usually it's a crapshoot.
    "Why is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a barbecue?" Anonymous

  9. #9
    Senior Member ijsbrand's Avatar
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    The use of performance enhancing drugs has been endemic in bike racing since the early years of the TDF.
    Not only that, races always have been bought and sold. And the strongest rider in a race seldom is the winner.

    I happen to like professional cycling because of this. Because the story of any race is never the story the television broadcast seems to show. Some may call this cynical. But I call the people who expect ethics, or fair play, naive.

    Cycling is a very Catholic sport, in its origin as well, and Catholics simply have always been able to buy forgiveness for their sins.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatW View Post
    Is the term "business ethics" an oxymoron?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ijsbrand View Post
    Not only that, races always have been bought and sold. And the strongest rider in a race seldom is the winner.

    I happen to like professional cycling because of this. Because the story of any race is never the story the television broadcast seems to show. Some may call this cynical. But I call the people who expect ethics, or fair play, naive.

    Cycling is a very Catholic sport, in its origin as well, and Catholics simply have always been able to buy forgiveness for their sins.
    Personally, I think they should bring back indulgences.
    "Why is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a barbecue?" Anonymous

  12. #12
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Ironically, in the US, withholding relevant information from a case would be grounds for dismissal.

  13. #13
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    As long as there are huge rewards associated with doing well in an event, you'll always have people willing to do unreasonable things to try to gain an advantage. The only real solution is to remove the reward associated with winning, and that's unlikely, at least not intentinally.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  14. #14
    Senior Member xizangstan's Avatar
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    I see from the comments here that hacking into someone else's computer system to tamper with evidence is not relevant. Very odd.
    Who is John Galt?

  15. #15
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xizangstan View Post
    I see from the comments here that hacking into someone else's computer system to tamper with evidence is not relevant. Very odd.
    I have not read any reports that suggest there was an attempt to tamper with evidence, but rather to obtain copies of documents. According to this report and this one, Landis and his coach were convicted not of hacking, but of receiving documents which were illegally obtained by hacking. I wonder why he was not allowed access to the information legally.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  16. #16
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatW View Post
    Is the term "business ethics" an oxymoron?
    No. Our personal ethical obligations do not go on holiday during business hours. That an offense against ethical standards occurs on the job is no reasonable defense.
    George
    Laissez les bon temps rouler

  17. #17
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Sportsmanship and Ethics do not go together---The higher up the sporting rung you go.

    I remember many years ago when I started Karting. The higher up the rung- the less ethics you have. Difference was that you abided by all the rules--but just learnt to bend them better. Those that bent them too far got caught.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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  18. #18
    Man of constant sorrow Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Recently someone wrote a little column in the WSJ about poaching marathons (running in them without paying the entry fee). They were soundly condemned by the readership.

    Ethics are alive and well.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    Ethics are alive and well.
    Following the Penn State scandal, I'd say that particular jury is still out.

  20. #20
    Senior Member xizangstan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
    Following the Penn State scandal, I'd say that particular jury is still out.
    I thought it odd that the students were rioting and overturning a TV van to demonstrate their support for the pedophile group. Interesting.
    Who is John Galt?

  21. #21
    Senior Member david58's Avatar
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    Why would we expect sports to have any higher ethics than any other part of society? But then, I ain't turnin' no vans over because of no pedophile...
    2011 BMC SR02; 2010 Fuji Cross Comp; n+1 on hold today, due to college tuition and a wedding. Some day, some where, over the rainbow, I will get that 29er....

  22. #22
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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  23. #23
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david58 View Post
    Why would we expect sports to have any higher ethics than any other part of society? But then, I ain't turnin' no vans over because of no pedophile...
    I guess because some of us think people in the public eye should help set the tone for behavior in society. Of course we are fewer every day.

  24. #24
    Gone DnvrFox's Avatar
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    I thought one of the benefits of a college education was learning to weigh the facts before making reasoned decisions ad taking action. Guess that doesn't apply any more - at least at Penn State. What an absolutely idiotic response.

    Well, any excuse for a riot, I guess. Even supporting folks so obsessed over winning they failed to report a 10-year-old being raped.

    When I was teaching, the law was that if even ANY child abuse was suspected, the teacher had to report it directly to Social Services or the police, not just to the principal of the school. If you did not report it directly yourself, you broke the law.
    Gone >> Gone >> Gone >> Gone >> Gone >> Gone >> Gone

  25. #25
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    When I was teaching, the law was that if even ANY child abuse was suspected, the teacher had to report it directly to Social Services or the police, not just to the principal of the school. If you did not report it directly yourself, you broke the law.
    FWIW, my ex-wife was a school social worker at a middle school here in CT. One of her responsibilities was to act as the person to whom abuse of students was reported. One day a teacher reported that a custodian had come to her because he had witnessed a male teacher use excessive force on a student. My ex reported it to her Principal as required by school rules. The school did nothing. She ended up reporting it to a State agency after a very lengthy and contentious battle with school authorities. The long and short of it is that the State agency said it was too late to do anything and the school ended up phasing her job out via budget cuts. She had been there for 14 yrs.

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