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  1. #1
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    It's sort of a shame . . .

    OOPS!! You can't edit titles so, corrected -

    It's sort of a shame . . .

    how many of the threads posted to the 50+ forum get turned into political wars.

    I deleted an entire thread yesterday because it had degenerated into a totally off-topic fight between some folks.

    There seems to be no recourse, as it seems, pretty much, the same folks who can't resist political statements thrown into their posts.

    That's exactly what P&R is designed for.

    This is something fairly new, in my several years or so in this forum, and I am sure it discourages some folks from posting.

    But, there seems to be no recourse. Those posting the political stuff don't even seem to realize they are doing it - I guess it just seems natural to them. Pointing it out just starts another debate.

    As more and more folks do that, I predict that those folks not wanting a political debate on the 50+ will post less and less, and it will get even more vitriolic.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Well I, for one, think that it's a shame.

    Personally, I didn't think that the thread in question was all that political but one individual, who is more sensitive to politics than me, took offense and made a big deal out of it. Then another poster took offense to his offense and the name calling started.

  3. #3
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Maybe there should be more frequent reporting and closing of threads, so folks get the point.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  4. #4
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    Agree. And deleting the thread appears to be the best approach, as most mods don't take the trouble to analyze who says what. A person will post something that appears innocuous, but someone will take great offense and launch a vitriolic attack. The OP will respond in a rational fashion, but the unperceptive mod will excoriate both of them for instigating a flame war, although one of them is merely trying to defuse things. So I like your approach.

    You would think that those of us who have reached this advanced age have seen enough and been thru enough that a certain amount of maturity and objectivity would become evident. But then I think back to when I was 19, and it was clear to me then that older people were just too set in their ways, too self-righteous, and were incapable of thinking outside their own comfort zone, so I just blew them off as being ignorant.

    I think that truly wise people are those who know they still have a lot to learn, regardless of how old they are. And one thing I have learned is that the aggressive approach, berating people who hold different or opposing views, only hardens their position. This is why it does no good to yell at idiot motorists who have done something stupid and have nearly killed you. They will NEVER admit that it was their fault. All it will do is to escalate a cycle of belligerent behavior.

    And although I am not a religious person, I think Jesus had something when he admonished his followers to "turn the other cheek." He wanted to dsrupt the cycle of violence, where each side is intent on getting even with the other for offenses that occurred hundreds of years ago. It's really hard to not want to get even, even harder than engaging in some form of conflict, but sometimes you have to take the more difficult approach if you want to accomplish anything.

    Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just formulating some incomplete/inconclusive thoughts.

    Luis

  5. #5
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    Agree. And deleting the thread appears to be the best approach, as most mods don't take the trouble to analyze who says what. A person will post something that appears innocuous, but someone will take great offense and launch a vitriolic attack. The OP will respond in a rational fashion, but the unperceptive mod will excoriate both of them for instigating a flame war, although one of them is merely trying to defuse things. So I like your approach.

    You would think that those of us who have reached this advanced age have seen enough and been thru enough that a certain amount of maturity and objectivity would become evident. But then I think back to when I was 19, and it was clear to me then that older people were just too set in their ways, too self-righteous, and were incapable of thinking outside their own comfort zone, so I just blew them off as being ignorant.

    I think that truly wise people are those who know they still have a lot to learn, regardless of how old they are. And one thing I have learned is that the aggressive approach, berating people who hold different or opposing views, only hardens their position. This is why it does no good to yell at idiot motorists who have done something stupid and have nearly killed you. They will NEVER admit that it was their fault. All it will do is to escalate a cycle of belligerent behavior.

    And although I am not a religious person, I think Jesus had something when he admonished his followers to "turn the other cheek." He wanted to dsrupt the cycle of violence, where each side is intent on getting even with the other for offenses that occurred hundreds of years ago. It's really hard to not want to get even, even harder than engaging in some form of conflict, but sometimes you have to take the more difficult approach if you want to accomplish anything.

    Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just formulating some incomplete/inconclusive thoughts.

    Luis
    You've got to be kidding me. You're one of the worst offenders.

  6. #6
    Senior Member teachme's Avatar
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    Dfox, I agree with your statement, and apologize for getting sucked into the political banter.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member bigbadwullf's Avatar
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    Well, so many people feel their voice is not being heard and they feel the need to voice their opinion. Yup, it's a shame but it is just a sign of the times.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member teachme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwullf View Post
    Well, so many people feel their voice is not being heard and they feel the need to voice their opinion. Yup, it's a shame but it is just a sign of the times.
    +1
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  9. #9
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    I tend to agree and think there is something to be said for when you take something personal, you should deal with it on a personal level. All one needs to do is use the private message function so thoughtfully included in Bikeforums. Given the public nature of some of these exchanges it appears, however, to be less about defending one's honor/position/ideas and more about chest thumping.

    I note that I've stayed away for periods of time when things got too adversarial. I also note that for the last several months, I've visited here less often, and been much more selective about the threads I post in or even the ones I open.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member teachme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
    I tend to agree and think there is something to be said for when you take something personal, you should deal with it on a personal level. All one needs to do is use the private message function so thoughtfully included in Bikeforums. Given the public nature of some of these exchanges it appears, however, to be less about defending one's honor/position/ideas and more about chest thumping.

    I note that I've stayed away for periods of time when things got too adversarial. I also note that for the last several months, I've visited here less often, and been much more selective about the threads I post in or even the ones I open.
    I agree with you on this. The chest thumping is the warrior within coming out. Some wars need to be fought, others not.
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  11. #11
    Aluminum Convert jbman100's Avatar
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    Unless I know for a fact that a reply was directed at me personally I will usually ignore the comment and continue on with the thread. If it is directed at me then I will send the person a private message and discuss it there. I'm sure not everyone see's things like I do and I am not about to force my point across about anything. It's usually not worth it anyhow.
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  12. #12
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Two things I don't comment on and one of those is politics.

    But if a thread starts going the wrong way and "Heated"- then I can ignore it or if I started it and it goes wrong- I can get it deleted.

    I think it is a pity that Politics rears its head on unrelated postings so you "Dun Right" DnveFox---In my opinion.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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    I'm sitting here LMAO. You should only be on my Ducati list. This is nothing. I'm always amazed at how little people react to "political/social" commentary. I don't really care if people want to speak their mind as long as it doesn't get personal. Problem is it very often gets personal. My experience is that people are not interested in having an illuminating discussion. They only want to prove their point. Just like most of society.

  14. #14
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    I don't often post here any more, not because of "politics", but because of the combination of personal attacks and off topic slams. I don't think a person can discuss any serious issue where differences exist without "politics". After all that is the heart and soul of interpersonal discourse.

    Yesterday's topic included both of the problems that not only make this board less useful to me, but actively drives me away.

    I understand that some people feel obligated to take every opportunity to tout their favorite cause. Then there are those who get their joy in life and venting of whatever anger they possess in internet forums. Both, I suppose, have just as much right to be here as anyone else. All have the right to post or not as they see fit. Of course one cannot forget those for whom this is their entertainment.

    Over the years I've seen these internet forums come and go. A couple I can think of died because they would not self-moderate and finally enough people went away that revenue to the owners went down and ultimately it were just not financially viable. Others, the posters exercised tolerance to each other and have flourished.

    Maybe that is The Key: Tolerance and Respect. Add to that the knowledge that once a thread is started it no longer belongs to the originator. Nor, do posts once published. They belong to Bike Forums and the Posters to do with as they will.
    Last edited by HawkOwl; 04-20-12 at 01:10 PM.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    I don't often post here any more, not because of "politics", but because of the combination of personal attacks and off topic slams.
    Honestly, there's only one person I've seen lately who seems to be so thin skinned that he seems to need to get personal. And, even that is not an every day thing. I just think this forum is kind of benign.

  16. #16
    Senior Member teachme's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=bruce19;14124263]Honestly, there's only one person I've seen lately who seems to be so thin skinned that he seems to need to get personal. And, even that is not an every day thing. I just think this forum is kind of benign.[/QUOTE]



    And kind of lame when someone posts about there not gonna post on here anymore because its getting too hot. Please...
    Last edited by teachme; 04-20-12 at 01:56 PM.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
    I'm sitting here LMAO. You should only be on my Ducati list. This is nothing. I'm always amazed at how little people react to "political/social" commentary. I don't really care if people want to speak their mind as long as it doesn't get personal. Problem is it very often gets personal. My experience is that people are not interested in having an illuminating discussion. They only want to prove their point. Just like most of society.
    LMAO, if I wanted to ride an Italian piece of crap I would. That company can't keep it together long enough to keep a freaking German company for buying it out. Give me a break.

    Obviously, I mean none of what was written above. I'm just using it as an example of how quickly things can feel personal. Denver raises a legitimate issue relative to the history of this forum. I don't really think comparing forums is his point. What can seem mild to one person can be highly offensive to another. This particular forum has a rich tradition of being more helpful than harmful, more welcoming than elitist, and more reasoned than aggressive. All of those are traits I believe are worth preserving.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright

  18. #18
    Senior Member bruce19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
    LMAO, if I wanted to ride an Italian piece of crap I would. That company can't keep it together long enough to keep a freaking German company for buying it out. Give me a break.
    We Ducati guys say "Give us a brake." (Anyone owning a Duc Superbike knows what I mean.)

  19. #19
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Really, who cares? Nobody needs to react to any observation, political or otherwise. They can choose not to.

    And from what I observe, including in the deleted thread, quite often the problem is not the allegedly "political" comment but the determination of certain respondents to take offence. Perhaps they could just take care to post only when sober.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  20. #20
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    Maybe that is The Key: Tolerance and Respect.
    HA! That's what the bible-thumping, war-profiteering, misogynistic, FOX News-watching bigots WANT you to think.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  21. #21
    rebmeM roineS JanMM's Avatar
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    For the remainder of the year I will respectfully refrain from references to either dog-eating chief executives or chief executive wanna-be's who torture dogs on car roofs at highway speeds.
    RANS V3 (steel), RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

  22. #22
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    Over the years I've seen these internet forums come and go. A couple I can think of died because they would not self-moderate and finally enough people went away that revenue to the owners went down and ultimately it were just not financially viable. Others, the posters exercised tolerance to each other and have flourished.
    And bikeforums.net certainly has stayed and flourished. Started way back in 1999. Must be doing something right in terms of attracting and keeping people.
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  23. #23
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    Wow, wha'd I miss?

  24. #24
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    HA! That's what the bible-thumping, war-profiteering, misogynistic, FOX News-watching bigots WANT you to think.
    *giggle*

  25. #25
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanMM View Post
    For the remainder of the year I will respectfully refrain from references to either dog-eating chief executives or chief executive wanna-be's who torture dogs on car roofs at highway speeds.


    I can't imagine how anyone could possibly take offense at this! Or this:



    Especially if they're sober.




    Now boys, if you don't like have your ox gored, then lay off attacking everyone else, and don't act so damn hurt if someone calls you on it.

    I for one hate this political stuff, and the photos above do not represent my own views.

    Just keep it off the damn forum. Go to P&R or somewhere else.

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