Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45
  1. #1
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,487
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Polite (but frustrating) Driver Debate

    I was stopped at a light on my way home from work the other day and, as is my habit at that intersection, I stopped in the lane, far enough to the left to allow any right-turning cars enough room to easily get past me. I consider it the polite and safe thing to do, especially given that many drivers don't know how to handle a bike at the curb, and will wait for the green, behind and to your left. That gets dangerous, as when the light turns green, those same drivers will sometimes turn right, whether you are crossing the intersection at the time or not. So I take the lane to avoid being hooked, then move back over as I exit the intersection. There is a left turn lane, but no right turn lane - just enough room for a car to go to the right of a vehicle going straight.

    As I'm waiting for the green, sure enough, a right-turning car pulls up. He has his window down, and asks me what I'm doing "in the middle of the street". I tell him it's so he can turn right without waiting. He points to the sidewalk, and says that's where I should be. I tell him that, no, Arizona law states that I belong in the street, as part of traffic. He say "not true", and at it became obvious it would be a "yes it does", "no it doesn't" thing, since he continued to insist I was wrong, even after I mentioned that I had carefully studied our traffic laws as they relate to bicycles. I shut up. He made his turn, and was gone.

    Anyway, it was a tipping point for me. I'm finally going to do something I've thought of doing for quite while, and print out a whole bunch pocket sized cards with our statutes on them. I'll give them to clubs, and keep some in a jersey pocket to use as debate handouts. Our drivers (and LEO) need some edjumacation.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  2. #2
    Carpe Velo Yo Spiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    My Bikes
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Trek 900, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '92 Schwinn Crosscut, '03 Diamondback Tandem, '94 Yokota Grizzly Peak
    Posts
    2,499
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The drivers will just think you've made it all up.
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '88 Trek 900, '92 Trek T100, 2000 Rans Tailwind

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Newport News, VA USA
    My Bikes
    Diamondback Edgewood LX; Giant Defy 1
    Posts
    3,215
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unfortunately, many drivers don't know that bicycles are allowed on the streets.

  4. #4
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,487
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
    Unfortunately, many drivers don't know that bicycles are allowed on the streets.
    Exactly, which is why education can help. I'm also a big fan od the "Share the Road" and "3 Feet" signs some communities put up, and Yo Spiff, I think most people believe those.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  5. #5
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,413
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You assume he'll be able to read and understand it, and/or care.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright

  6. #6
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,487
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
    You assume he'll be able to read and understand it, and/or care.
    Well, in this particular case, he seemed to care, as he actually conversed about it, instead of just yelling something stupid on the way by. That doesn't mean he is open to being enlightened, but hey, it's something.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  7. #7
    Senior Member teachme's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nederland, Texas
    My Bikes
    2011 Specialized Sectuer, 1988 Bianchi
    Posts
    1,441
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That guy was a dodo head!
    Official member of the Brotherhood of Clyde...

    Lets stop diabetes! Click here: http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR/?px...nal&fr_id=8067 to donate to the Tour de Cure.

  8. #8
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,413
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Well, in this particular case, he seemed to care, as he actually conversed about it, instead of just yelling something stupid on the way by. That doesn't mean he is open to being enlightened, but hey, it's something.
    There is a ray of hope.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright

  9. #9
    Squeaky Wheel woodway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Woodinville, WA
    Posts
    1,310
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Anyway, it was a tipping point for me. I'm finally going to do something I've thought of doing for quite while, and print out a whole bunch pocket sized cards with our statutes on them. I'll give them to clubs, and keep some in a jersey pocket to use as debate handouts. Our drivers (and LEO) need some edjumacation.
    Trying to educate unaware drivers is a no-wn situation. There are just too many of them. IMHO it's best to smile, let it go and enjoy your ride.

  10. #10
    Senior Member trackhub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    In a state of 5th Dimension, where size has no meaning.
    My Bikes
    Gunnar Street Dog
    Posts
    1,909
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    AZTall, you were clearly in the right here. But, if you go ahead and print up a bunch of cards or brochures, and try to give them to such people, one of several things will happen:

    -They will not accept it, and glare at you.

    -They will crumble it up, or tear it up, and toss it back at you. This will be accompanied with an all-american death look. This is the same look you get if you attempt to cut the line
    at Dunkin Donuts at 7:30 AM.

    -The individual may be looking for a fist-fight, to score points with his bar-buddies, and attempting to hand him something might be all he needs.

    Any chance he might accept it, look at you sheepishly, and say, "Golly, I'm sorry! I had no idea". ? Yes. I'd say the odds of such a thing are somewhere around .00001% probability.

    Sorry, but I had a similar experience recently, so I'm just a tad cynical tonight. What I have heard a few times, when I mention MA state law stating that bikes are recognized as vehicles,
    are variants of "I don't give a expletive what the law says! Bikes don't belong on the expletive street".

    I think the "I don't care what the law says" is key here.

    If gas gets anymore expensive, it's going to be interesting times indeed.
    "The People will believe what the Media tells them they believe". George Orwell.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    696
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    you cant educate a moron,,I ride year around 5 days a week in the street,,been doing it for 53 years,,I look guys like that right in the face,,and say ______ off ___ hole,,,thats the way I handle it. I got no time for morons.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bristol, R. I.
    My Bikes
    Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot
    Posts
    1,522
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is clear that people will believe just what we want to believe. If anyone needs proof of this, just look at politics.

  13. #13
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    In the foothills of Los Angeles County
    Posts
    10,799
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've heard the "bicycles belong on the sidewalk" thing before and I had a guy insist that I should ride on the left, against traffic, so it would be easier for him to see me, or something. I told him the law said I should ride on the right and he said the law was wrong. I thanked him for his concern.

    It's almost like racism or some other deeply ingrained hatred/stupidity.

  14. #14
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,487
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I hear what you all are saying, but there is a segment of the population, however small, that is merely ignorant and willing to learn. That's the target population for educational initiatives.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  15. #15
    Senior Member teachme's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nederland, Texas
    My Bikes
    2011 Specialized Sectuer, 1988 Bianchi
    Posts
    1,441
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by woodway View Post
    Trying to educate unaware drivers is a no-wn situation. There are just too many of them. IMHO it's best to smile, let it go and enjoy your ride.
    +1 I think I would say "I appreciate your concern; have a nice day" By the way... A positive about those who make wisecracks to us is, they do see us when we are riding. Those that honk, shoot the finger or make wisecracks do see us. That is better than a driver who dosen't even know we are there.
    Official member of the Brotherhood of Clyde...

    Lets stop diabetes! Click here: http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR/?px...nal&fr_id=8067 to donate to the Tour de Cure.

  16. #16
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    In the foothills of Los Angeles County
    Posts
    10,799
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't mind the wisecracks, fingers, or even the horns so much. When they throw things or try to see how close they can get is when it really sucks.

  17. #17
    Senior Member OldsCOOL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    northern michigan
    My Bikes
    '88 Cannondale Criterium, Trek Pro Series
    Posts
    4,878
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The general driving public needs educating. And we've been on the road for how long now??


    I'm riding in The Ride Of Silence next Wednesday night. It's the least I can do for now.
    Having a flat tire as part of the total cycling experience is highly overrated. Knowing how to fix one quickly is not.

    '85 Trek 460 road racer

    '89 Raleigh Technium PRE

    '79 Motobecane Super Mirage

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    696
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
    The general driving public needs educating. And we've been on the road for how long now??


    I'm riding in The Ride Of Silence next Wednesday night. It's the least I can do for now.
    I do my own ride of silence,,last time I tried to ride with a group in Royal Oak Michigan the leader was acting like a Nazi..I ride for fun and exercise,,I dont need that crap ..

  19. #19
    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    My Bikes
    1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
    Posts
    3,761
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I hear what you all are saying, but there is a segment of the population, however small, that is merely ignorant and willing to learn. That's the target population for educational initiatives.
    Good point. I think that there are getting to be so many cyclists on the streets these days that drivers will have to get the message. What worries me is the irregular behavior of so many doofus cyclists, riding the wrong way, on the sidewalks, the wrong way on the sidewalks, etc. There's some educating to do there too!

    Footnote: looks like we are getting a three-foot law here in Nebraska... a very good thing I think. And AZT- I do exactly what you do to let drivers make a right turn.

    There is a time to resign oneself
    to old age and infirmity. You first.
    My Cycling Blogspot

  20. #20
    Carpe Velo Yo Spiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    My Bikes
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Trek 900, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '92 Schwinn Crosscut, '03 Diamondback Tandem, '94 Yokota Grizzly Peak
    Posts
    2,499
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Was thinking of putting this in the back window of my truck. Right where other drivers will see it.
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '88 Trek 900, '92 Trek T100, 2000 Rans Tailwind

  21. #21
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern CaliFORNIA.
    My Bikes
    KHS Alite 500, Trek 7.2 FX , Masi Partenza, Masi Fixed Special, Masi Cran Criterium
    Posts
    2,941
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I was stopped at a light on my way home from work the other day and, as is my habit at that intersection, I stopped in the lane, far enough to the left to allow any right-turning cars enough room to easily get past me. I consider it the polite and safe thing to do.
    +1

    You could have told the guy that if you were on the side walk; 1, you would have to go at pedestrian speed, and 2, he would never know if you were "that guy" who would pull out when he was turning right.

  22. #22
    Senior Member nkfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    My Bikes
    2006 Specialized Ruby Pro aka "Rhubarb" / and a backup road bike
    Posts
    1,475
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My employer is having a "fair" during lunch time to promote good behaviors during National Safety Month. Our bike club has a standing invite to staff an info booth either for this event or for Earth Day to promote bicycling. While we will get some interest from bicycle riders, a good part of our effort is to educate both cyclists AND motorists how to legally, safely, and courteously share the road and MUPs. When motorists deal with cyclists in a business setting peer-to-peer, it reminds them that we are real people not fringe elements of society; and it takes place in a neutral environment where reason rules over emotions.

    The largest bike club in the city is sponsoring a Bike Rodeo for school kids in conjunction with the local police department this month. This helps educate their parents to avoid perpetuating the myths of where bikes should be. The kids enjoy it.

    If you have the opportunity to participate in these types of event, please consider it.

    I have enjoyed dialogue from several "concerned" motorists who politely have told me I should be on the sidewalks/ riding toward traffic. My favorite was when I was on a rural road riding 23+ mph and a motorcycle rider pulled alongside me and advised me I should find a "safer" road. Any alternative routes in my direction involved 10-mile detours and were worse conditions.

    AZT - yes, I take the lane in intersections so cars won't pass me until I clear the intersection. At stops I position my bike so a R-turning driver can squeeze by on my right but ONLY if that will be safe for both me and the motorist.

  23. #23
    Senior Member nkfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    My Bikes
    2006 Specialized Ruby Pro aka "Rhubarb" / and a backup road bike
    Posts
    1,475
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Yo Spiff View Post
    Was thinking of putting this in the back window of my truck. Right where other drivers will see it.
    Hahahahaha! Love the "GET OVER IT" part.

  24. #24
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern CaliFORNIA.
    My Bikes
    KHS Alite 500, Trek 7.2 FX , Masi Partenza, Masi Fixed Special, Masi Cran Criterium
    Posts
    2,941
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    FYI

    In CA it is CVC21202(4)

    I encourage you to look it up in your states Vehicle Code.

    "21202. (a)Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normalspeed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as closeas practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under anyof the following situations:

    . . .
    (4) When approaching a place where a rightturn is authorized."

  25. #25
    Senior Member catonec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    burlington VT.
    Posts
    2,228
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the type of person who feels they have to roll down the window and scold a cyclist for riding in the street ARE NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO ANYTHING, NO MATTER HOW REASONABLE IT IS, SAID BY SOMEONE WEARING SPANDEX. sorry, they think already know more than you do.
    2010 Kestrel RT900SL, 800k carbon, chorus/record, speedplay, zonda
    1997 Trek ZX6000, 6061w/manitou spyder, xt/xtr, time atac

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •