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  1. #1
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    50+'rs - watch your traffic obedience in Denver

    Denver police crack down on freewheeling bicyclists

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_20...denverpost.com
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    When he gets to court, he should ask if the officer requires motor vehicle operators to get out of the car and put their feet on the pavement at a Stop sign. To stop is to cease forward movement. Simple.

  3. #3
    Randomhead
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    I would be sorely tempted to tear that one up and get a littering ticket on top of it. Given cyclist's reputation for not stopping at stop signs, you'd think a cop would be happy that he stopped. I have actually thought that the roads would be safer if motorists had to put a foot down. At least they would stop. I have to laugh when people around here complain about cyclists not stopping because nobody stops for stop signs here, you'd get rear-ended.

    California did actually require cyclists to put a foot down for a while. Kind of ridiculous given that most of the country calls a rolling stop a "california stop" for good reason. I really wonder if they enforce stop signs around here -- the cops don't stop for them, why should the rest of us?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    California did actually require cyclists to put a foot down for a while.
    Any citation for this? It certainly hasn't been part of the CVC since I've lived here. Nor have I ever heard that the law was changed from a previous version with such a requirement.

    That's not to say that there aren't some misinformed police officers who may issue a ticket to someone who does a proper track stand.

  5. #5
    MUP World Champ adamhenry's Avatar
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    I rode a motorcycle in the 80's in SoCal and remember having to watch for cops when I did feet on the pegs stops. I was never warned but a guy I knew was ticketed.

  6. #6
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Any citation for this? It certainly hasn't been part of the CVC since I've lived here. Nor have I ever heard that the law was changed from a previous version with such a requirement.

    That's not to say that there aren't some misinformed police officers who may issue a ticket to someone who does a proper track stand.
    I concur. I have never seen "foot down" in the definition a legal stop, and I have never been harassed by the police, even in Oceanside CA, for coming to a full or near-full stop w/o unclipping.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  7. #7
    Randomhead
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    sorry, all I have for the California thing is vague memories from the '70s that this was mentioned in Velonews. I doubt it was ever codified in law.

    Funny thing is that I figure putting my foot down is a suitable substitute for actually coming to a stop. My foot always comes to a stop, which is better than the motorists can say.
    Last edited by unterhausen; 07-02-12 at 08:15 PM.

  8. #8
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    During the '70s and early '80s, the bike cops in Davis, CA were handing out tickets to cyclists for not putting a foot down at stop signs. After a few people successfully fought their citations, the cops started dealing with the reality of the law (stop) and not making stuff up (put a foot down). Perhaps this is where the rumor that CA required cyclists to put a foot down came from.

    It's kind of funny that a cop would want a cyclist to put a foot down to prove they had stopped. It is pretty common for a track-standing cyclist to stop multiple times (stop, roll backwards two inches, stop, roll forwards, stop,...). What could be better than someone who is so into stopping at a stop sign they do it over and over?

    I did once see a motorist put his foot down at a red light. Unfortunately, he didn't actually stop. His car was sliding on ice and he finally decided to open his door and see if a bit more traction would help. Luckily, those of us whose light had turned green saw what was happening and no one entered the intersection until he managed to stop and get control of the situation. We don't get many days with ice on the road in Eugene, so most folks were unprepared for the lack of friction.

  9. #9
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Two types of sign over here-"Give Way" and "Stop". Give way and if clear as you approach- then you can carry on without stopping. Stop is what it says and you have to stop. As a Motorist- what constitutes a stop? 45 years ago I was taught it is no forward movement and if the letter of the law is to be applied- then handbrake on. Then look both ways to ensure you can proceed. What motorist does that? May stop- may look- but Handbrake? And in fact--Very few cars do stop if they are first in line and the road is clear.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
    Take the bicycle to court and show the judge a track stand stop, then ask the officer to show where the law says you have to put a foot down for a complete stop. Just contesting this will blow the cops mind, they expect everyone to quietly accept a ticket and not question their judgement. I know, my brother is a cop.

    Bill
    +1

  11. #11
    Free Velo Vol! Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Every bike club in America should push hard right now for Idaho laws and put an end to this nonsense. I've yet to see a car come to a full complete no kidding stop in my neighborhood, yet I get yelled at for rolling through a stop sign at 3 MPH.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
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    What also annoys the heck out of me is the number of cars that don't signal and I have to guess what they are going to do.

  13. #13
    Senior Member bigbadwullf's Avatar
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    And those that make a left-hand turn and enter the lane of oncoming traffic. NEVER see a cop stop someone for that and that is much more dangerous!!!

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
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    ...or making a turn and drifting into your lane. I never get why people think they need to drift right to turn left or drift left to turn right when they are driving a car. I had a car nearly hit my car in the side when they were going to make a right turn--they drifted into my lane, left lane, in getting ready to turn--laid on the horn. You don't need to make a wide arc with a car like you do with a bicycle or motorcycle. Some can't even stay in their lane when you have multiple lanes that turn--such as two or three left turn lanes at a stop signal.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    I wonder how I could show that I've stopped on my trike?
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  16. #16
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
    Take the bicycle to court and show the judge a track stand stop, then ask the officer to show where the law says you have to put a foot down for a complete stop. Just contesting this will blow the cops mind, they expect everyone to quietly accept a ticket and not question their judgement. I know, my brother is a cop.

    Bill
    The problem with that could be if he slowly keeps moving forward, like the majority of cyclists I see trying to track stand. They never come to a complete stop.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

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    On the other hand, I wouldn't mind at all seeing some of the people riding bicycles on the wrong side of the street get tickets. Or adults riding on the sidewalk when there's a bike lane. Combine the two and you get the guy riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, who my wife accidentally hit at an intersection -- officer at the scene said he could have cited them both but decided to cite no one (My wife was pretty distraught about the accident -- she bikes all over town herself). Hard to believe this officer in Denver couldn't find someone doing something actually worth writing a ticket for -- maybe he's just lazy :-)

  18. #18
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    I concur. I have never seen "foot down" in the definition a legal stop, and I have never been harassed by the police, even in Oceanside CA, for coming to a full or near-full stop w/o unclipping.
    Fortunately the Oceanside cops act like they have better things to do than hassle bikers. Carlsbad is a different matter. The City Code in that town is downright hostile to bikes, and especially skateboards. Good for you the Encinitas Sheriffs are always at the doughnut shop.
    Freedom is free. It's included in democracy. Democracy is hard. It involves dealing rationally with people you disagree with.

  19. #19
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
    Take the bicycle to court and show the judge a track stand stop, then ask the officer to show where the law says you have to put a foot down for a complete stop. Just contesting this will blow the cops mind, they expect everyone to quietly accept a ticket and not question their judgement. I know, my brother is a cop.

    Bill
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
    +1
    +2
    Freedom is free. It's included in democracy. Democracy is hard. It involves dealing rationally with people you disagree with.

  20. #20
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmichell View Post
    On the other hand, I wouldn't mind at all seeing some of the people riding bicycles on the wrong side of the street get tickets. Or adults riding on the sidewalk when there's a bike lane. Combine the two and you get the guy riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, who my wife accidentally hit at an intersection -- officer at the scene said he could have cited them both but decided to cite no one (My wife was pretty distraught about the accident -- she bikes all over town herself). Hard to believe this officer in Denver couldn't find someone doing something actually worth writing a ticket for -- maybe he's just lazy :-)
    Salmon are my biggest pet peeve. Especially when heading into traffic on the local Coast Highway, which is very popular with group rides. A serious accident caused by a high speed peleton coming down the railroad overpass from Carlsbad to Buena Vista Lagoon and hitting a couple of stoners on beach cruisers with surfboards head on, is just a matter of time. If the Carlsbad cops spent as much energy enforcing this as they do hassling skateboarders, I would be happy.
    Freedom is free. It's included in democracy. Democracy is hard. It involves dealing rationally with people you disagree with.

  21. #21
    Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad Rx Rider's Avatar
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    just need to add this one to my list of reasons to never enter Denver city and county again. I think that makes 43 now.

  22. #22
    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
    The problem with that could be if he slowly keeps moving forward, like the majority of cyclists I see trying to track stand. They never come to a complete stop.
    Indeed. As others have suggested, if he can do a track stand in court w/o moving then the judge should throw it out otherwise pay the fine and shut up.
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    Denver police crack down on freewheeling bicyclists

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_20...denverpost.com
    What I really love is when they do this under the guise of bicycle safety.... If you follow that logic, how about ticketing all the car drivers, in the guise of car safety.

    The issue is that a bicycle can stop and start again in under a second, mostly because stopping is easy and you can see conditions on the road and determine whether you need to stay stopped, before you stop. This is why some cyclists don't bother to stop, they determined they didn't really need to. it takes a car driver about 10 seconds to stop, see if they need to remain stopped, and go again. Officers who spend their entire day scarfing down donuts in cruisers do not realise this difference, so if you don't take that full 10 seconds, they assume you did not stop. Putting a foot down proves your stopped. It's not really an issue if you use platform pedals, it's a huge issue if you need to unclip, put a foot down, then reclip.

    If Denver had a group of cycle based officers and let them write the bicycle tickets, they probably wouldn't write very many.

  24. #24
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    . . .Officers who spend their entire day scarfing down donuts in cruisers do not realise this difference, . . .
    I think they do, but are following orders of local politicians who are trying to score points with certain constituents, by applying "tough love to those nasty bikers".

    The laws have evolved. For example, riding all the way to the right has morphed to riding as far to the right as practical and safe. Why can it not go from total cessation of forward movement, to slow enough to assess if it is safe to proceed, or come to a full stop.
    Freedom is free. It's included in democracy. Democracy is hard. It involves dealing rationally with people you disagree with.

  25. #25
    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuteCommando;14450504

    The laws have evolved. For example, riding all the way to the right has morphed to riding as far to the right as practical and safe. Why can it not go from [I
    total cessation of forward movement[/I], to slow enough to assess if it is safe to proceed, or come to a full stop.
    Why don't we just change all stop signs to yield signs and eliminate the red light entirely.
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
    If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

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