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  1. #1
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    (Almost) 50+ dopers!

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...ew-york-34711/

    Two amateurs, including the winner of the 45-49 year age division of the Gran Fondo of New York, tested positive for EPO. Turns out that USADA thought that it would be a good idea to test the winners, given that they get some substantial prizes.

    Anyone here need to come clean?

  2. #2
    Slogging along rubic's Avatar
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    This is amazing, although it really does not surprise me. Using PEDS can only hurt the individual medically in the long run. So yippie, somebody gets a great result in the 45 - 49 age group and they are so pleased with themselves. Then they suffer the inevitable unthinkable medical issues with resultant loss of lifestyle and die prematurely to the determent of their loved ones.

    Don't do it.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Doping to win the TdF is bad enough, but as an amateur, the words don't exist to describe the stupidity.

  4. #4
    Semper Fi, A way of life. qcpmsame's Avatar
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    This is just nuts, is it so important that an amateur has to dope. I have given up all ideas about racing in any form because I am probably going to have to be prescribed EPO for my Renal failure and anemia. What did they gain other than a few seconds, most likely? There was a Masters level racer in Florida about a year ago that got popped for refusing a test on demand. I believe he ended up admitting he was using an anabolic steroid. Sad, just so stupid to waste your health on this type of crap.

    Bill
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  5. #5
    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
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    Okay... I'm returning all of my prizes, I swear it. Please do not shun me.

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  6. #6
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    Do the imaginary drugs I took to win imaginary races count? I guess I'll have to give back all my imaginary prizes and be banned from fantasy races for two years.

    Goodness, this is so pathetic I don't know what to say. I wish I was surprised, but there have always been folks who would rather cheat to win than enjoy a fair competition and risk losing.

  7. #7
    Senior Member loneviking61's Avatar
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    Not me! I have to have blood drawn off from time to time when my hgb gets too high.

  8. #8
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    That's the problem with youngsters (45-49).
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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  9. #9
    Senior Member 12bar's Avatar
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    While I don't agree with the practice I kind of understand why the pros do it for them that's how they make a living. For anyone else it just isn't worth it but in this day and age we think a pill or a shot is the answer for almost everything. I guess the old Dow Chemical commercials were right "better living through chemistry".
    "It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have. I want to know if you can get up after a night of grief and despair, weary and bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done for someone you love". Blazeman, Warrior Poet

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  10. #10
    Semper Fi, A way of life. qcpmsame's Avatar
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    That was Du Pont Chemical.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_...ough_Chemistry

    I couldn't find any more information about this sad episode, I am going to guess the entry form had you sign that you would be tested for PED's if you placed at such and such a level and a random group for balance. The home random tests would be where I'd protest unless the entry made them agree to this or the rider is a licensed USA Cycling competitor (they automatically are subject to random home testing on demand.) If you sign for the USAC license to compete you accept this testing, no questions asked. I have no problem with this at all.

    I already told my reason for stopping my racing aspirations with the EPO I'll most likely need for the renal failure I have. I don't believe that USA Cycling will grant a "urgent need" waiver or what other type of waiver could be granted, for EPO with its stigma and I agree with this. I would have an advantage, no matter how small over other competitors. Therefore I will not try to enter a sanctioned race, or even an unofficial race. If anyone has knowledge I'd appreciate knowing about the waiver policy. I cannot find it on the USAC website.

    Bill
    Last edited by qcpmsame; 07-24-12 at 08:39 AM.
    "I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13

  11. #11
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    It's sad but really not surprising. A few years back, an up-and-coming local racer was nailed for doping. And he was only Cat 3. The attraction isn't just money; it's the winning record, the championship, the title, whatever. IMHO much more testing should be done at the lower levels because that's where the problem starts.

  12. #12
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Given the puffery of some of the posters on the 50+ racing forum, I'd be a bit surprised if every single one of them were clean. $5000 on a bike, $3000 on wheels, racing a full time avocation approaching a job. I can imagine it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
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    ...and the ones who get away with doping and succeed in races, make it more tempting for others since it's really difficult to be at that level of performance clean. Doping does a disservice to the sport, any sport, to the athlete, and other athletes(especially aspiring and up and coming athletes).

  14. #14
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    Given the puffery of some of the posters on the 50+ racing forum, I'd be a bit surprised if every single one of them were clean. $5000 on a bike, $3000 on wheels, racing a full time avocation approaching a job. I can imagine it.
    Having gotten to know most of the other racers here over quite awhile, I'd be shocked if we all aren't clean, and I resent the insinuation, Dudel. The fact that a person is willing to spend their cash and time on a passion does not equate to a willingness to taint whatever success we can achieve. There are and will be cheaters in every sport. The athletes around them generally know who they are. Having to compete against them is a part of life, and especially with an amateur driven sport like cycling, there is just not enough money to find them all. There is frankly no possible way to find them all. They will always be there, just as there will always be those genetically gifted athletes there for you to compete against. Is it fair? No, but few things are. It's part of life, and part of sports, that you have to put yourself up against circumstances that don't favor your success. Overcoming those factors is a big part of the appeal.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  15. #15
    Semper Fi, A way of life. qcpmsame's Avatar
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    There is no way I would believe that the 50+ members, in the racing sub-forum, that race dope in any way form or fashion. I've been in their sub-forum a lot and found them to be dedicated to a clean manner of training and of avoiding any means of illicit enhancement,as well as helpful and willing to help a rank newbie, like me, Dudel. not sure if your reply was tongue in cheek or serious but that is a pretty serious slap there. Might want to rethink that one. JMHO.

    Bill
    "I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13

  16. #16
    Senior Member cocar's Avatar
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    I'm speaking in the theoretical here. Don't everyone get their nose out of joint. I think endurance sports, and competitve cycling, from what I can tell, attracts a certain type of people. Really driven, focused people, that may tend to be a little compulsive. A subset of racers in that group are ultra competitive and compulsive--the more they win, the more they train, the more compulsive they get--it's a cycle. As this happens, their world gets smaller. And they start to lose perspective about what matters, even about what is right or wrong. All that matters is winning--at any cost. This is when you get 40+ dopers at amater events. Or any dopers, really. And of course, once you start, you're not stopping.

    Funny how they sound just like regular drug addicts. In that article about that guy from the gran fondo, he sounded like any garden variety addict. He had just totally lost perspective that what he was doing was actually crazy.
    I'm not clumsy. It's just that the floor hates me, the table & chairs are bullies, and the wall gets in my way!

  17. #17
    Life is good RonH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    Two amateurs, including the winner of the 45-49 year age division of the Gran Fondo of New York, tested positive for EPO. Turns out that USADA thought that it would be a good idea to test the winners, given that they get some substantial prizes.

    Anyone here need to come clean?
    I've never ridden in a Gran Fondo but I do use performance enhancing substances when riding. I always have Gu or Hammer gel with me.
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  18. #18
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    Given the puffery of some of the posters on the 50+ racing forum, I'd be a bit surprised if every single one of them were clean. $5000 on a bike, $3000 on wheels, racing a full time avocation approaching a job. I can imagine it.

    That's a pretty serious imputation, as well as a foolish one. Spending one's money on a nice bike is evidence one might be a doper?

    And you're quite the hypocrite, aren't you? It's only recently that you were posting about these people in admiring terms. But now it's "puffery". I guess your opinion varies with which gallery you're playing to, on any particular day.

  19. #19
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    I find this thread oddly amusing considering there's a low "T" thread right next door.

    If you pull a license, you're held to a much higher medical standard than any other cyclist, and accept that you can be asked to pee in a bottle 24/7. It's in the fine print when you "accept" the terms when buying a license.

    Likely? Not unless you go to a National or World event which several of us have. If you medal the chance of testing goes up exponentially. If you win it's pretty likely you'll get tested.

    Go look at the WADA list, it's a long way from just EPO and steroids. My really conservative guess is 30-40% of the recreational riding community has been in violation of the code at some point this year. It's a huge list of things that show up in everything from OTC meds to certain brands of soap. Supermarkets, drugstores, health food stores, energy drinks at 7/11.

    It's a sport that requires a lot of dedication to be even mediocre at. It requires a thick skin because if you do well, someone is going to trot out that you're doping. But aside from probably saving me from the hereditary heart attack in my mid 40's, it's engaged me physically and mentally and I've made a lot of friends through it. I find that, so far anyway, that's outweighed finding out the guy who kicked my butt was on EPO or having to deal with a few accusations.

  20. #20
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    That's a pretty serious imputation, as well as a foolish one. Spending one's money on a nice bike is evidence one might be a doper?

    And you're quite the hypocrite, aren't you? It's only recently that you were posting about these people in admiring terms. But now it's "puffery". I guess your opinion varies with which gallery you're playing to, on any particular day.
    My goodness, you certainly took that personally.

  21. #21
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    I find this thread oddly amusing considering there's a low "T" thread right next door.

    If you pull a license, you're held to a much higher medical standard than any other cyclist, and accept that you can be asked to pee in a bottle 24/7. It's in the fine print when you "accept" the terms when buying a license.

    Likely? Not unless you go to a National or World event which several of us have. If you medal the chance of testing goes up exponentially. If you win it's pretty likely you'll get tested.

    Go look at the WADA list, it's a long way from just EPO and steroids. My really conservative guess is 30-40% of the recreational riding community has been in violation of the code at some point this year. It's a huge list of things that show up in everything from OTC meds to certain brands of soap. Supermarkets, drugstores, health food stores, energy drinks at 7/11.
    I have looked at the WADA list and was surprised what was and what was not on that list. Abuse of opioids are a major issue, but last I looked, a little vicodin showing up in the pee will give Wada no concern. OTOH, the DHEA that spruces up some of the energy supplements will get you an automatic two year suspension.

    Some of you are already taking great personal offense, and I find that odd given how I'm not singling anyone out. I'd mention steroid rage but you would not find that at all amusing even if I do. I'm only playing the odds, and the odds are that there are dopers who visit this site. Can't prove, don't really care. Until you test positive you can relax.

  22. #22
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    If bike racing doesn't thicken your skin, then nothing will. My skin is pretty thick, and Dudel's comment doesn't upset me, but it was something that needed to be refuted.

    Because of bike racing, I've become the type that avoids any drug he possibly can. It's a by-product of being aware of the effect on me of everything I put in my system. In the last few years, I've taken antibiotics for an eye infection, the occasional Advil for a headache, an antacid now and then, and I think that's it. But it's still probable I've violated the WADA list one way or another. I've never had my "T" tested, but intend to at some point. If it is low (entirely possible), and I decide to try to get it up to normal levels, then I'm a doper?
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  23. #23
    Senior Member volosong's Avatar
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    If someone, (okay, me), tested at the low range of "normal" for testosterone and their physician has prescribed a low dose of replacement T ... and I compete/hold a license ... would I be disqualified? My T levels are still below the median.

    - - - -

    p.s. Androgel does not seem to be on the WADA list that RacerEx posted a link to.
    Last edited by volosong; 07-24-12 at 09:01 AM.
    Deut 6:5

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  24. #24
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    I have looked at the WADA list and was surprised what was and what was not on that list. Abuse of opioids are a major issue, but last I looked, a little vicodin showing up in the pee will give Wada no concern. OTOH, the DHEA that spruces up some of the energy supplements will get you an automatic two year suspension.

    Some of you are already taking great personal offense, and I find that odd given how I'm not singling anyone out. I'd mention steroid rage but you would not find that at all amusing even if I do. I'm only playing the odds, and the odds are that there are dopers who visit this site. Can't prove, don't really care. Until you test positive you can relax.
    Wow. Someone doesn't have to target an individual to be offensive, and you clearly referenced those of us who post on the racing forum regularly. Own up to having made an unreasonable and offensive post. You just failed a "reasonable" test and are denying even after a positive "B Sample Post". You are now tainted, my respect for you has plummeted, and any intelligent posts you make in the future will be subject to suspicion as having been fueled by Abilify or some similar mental performance enhancer.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  25. #25
    Older I get, faster I was con's Avatar
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    Daymn! I'm glad they don't test for the performance enhancing stuff I use.....

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