Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-23-12, 06:50 PM   #1
Dudelsack 
A might bewildered...
Thread Starter
 
Dudelsack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loovul
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires
Posts: 6,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
(Almost) 50+ dopers!

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...ew-york-34711/

Two amateurs, including the winner of the 45-49 year age division of the Gran Fondo of New York, tested positive for EPO. Turns out that USADA thought that it would be a good idea to test the winners, given that they get some substantial prizes.

Anyone here need to come clean?
__________________
Signature line for rent.
Dudelsack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-12, 07:13 PM   #2
rubic
Slogging along
 
rubic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Fernando Valley, SoCal
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse '06, Mongoose titanium road bike '00--my commuter. Yes, Mongoose once made a decent ti road bike.
Posts: 1,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is amazing, although it really does not surprise me. Using PEDS can only hurt the individual medically in the long run. So yippie, somebody gets a great result in the 45 - 49 age group and they are so pleased with themselves. Then they suffer the inevitable unthinkable medical issues with resultant loss of lifestyle and die prematurely to the determent of their loved ones.

Don't do it.
rubic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-12, 07:58 PM   #3
bikepro 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Allen, TX
Bikes: Look 585
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Doping to win the TdF is bad enough, but as an amateur, the words don't exist to describe the stupidity.
bikepro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-12, 08:05 PM   #4
qcpmsame 
Cycling Saved My Life
 
qcpmsame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Bikes: '12 CAAD 10 Ultegra, '78 Medici Pro Strada
Posts: 9,830
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
This is just nuts, is it so important that an amateur has to dope. I have given up all ideas about racing in any form because I am probably going to have to be prescribed EPO for my Renal failure and anemia. What did they gain other than a few seconds, most likely? There was a Masters level racer in Florida about a year ago that got popped for refusing a test on demand. I believe he ended up admitting he was using an anabolic steroid. Sad, just so stupid to waste your health on this type of crap.

Bill
__________________
I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me. Philippians 4:13

"I did not choose to have Parkinson's Disease, I do choose not to allow it to control my life." Davis Phinney

Semper Fi, USMC, November 10, 1775, Tun Tavern, Philadelphia, PA.

qcpmsame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-12, 09:06 PM   #5
billydonn
Council of the Elders
 
billydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
Posts: 3,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Okay... I'm returning all of my prizes, I swear it. Please do not shun me.
billydonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-12, 09:37 PM   #6
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Do the imaginary drugs I took to win imaginary races count? I guess I'll have to give back all my imaginary prizes and be banned from fantasy races for two years.

Goodness, this is so pathetic I don't know what to say. I wish I was surprised, but there have always been folks who would rather cheat to win than enjoy a fair competition and risk losing.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-12, 09:47 PM   #7
loneviking61
Senior Member
 
loneviking61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Carson City, NV
Bikes: Schwinn Trailwise, Surly Pugsley
Posts: 386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Not me! I have to have blood drawn off from time to time when my hgb gets too high.
loneviking61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 01:15 AM   #8
stapfam
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Posts: 19,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
That's the problem with youngsters (45-49).
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 05:07 AM   #9
12bar
Senior Member
 
12bar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Central FL
Bikes: Specialized, Felt, Surly, Masi,Giant
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
While I don't agree with the practice I kind of understand why the pros do it for them that's how they make a living. For anyone else it just isn't worth it but in this day and age we think a pill or a shot is the answer for almost everything. I guess the old Dow Chemical commercials were right "better living through chemistry".
12bar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 05:44 AM   #10
qcpmsame 
Cycling Saved My Life
 
qcpmsame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Bikes: '12 CAAD 10 Ultegra, '78 Medici Pro Strada
Posts: 9,830
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
That was Du Pont Chemical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_...ough_Chemistry

I couldn't find any more information about this sad episode, I am going to guess the entry form had you sign that you would be tested for PED's if you placed at such and such a level and a random group for balance. The home random tests would be where I'd protest unless the entry made them agree to this or the rider is a licensed USA Cycling competitor (they automatically are subject to random home testing on demand.) If you sign for the USAC license to compete you accept this testing, no questions asked. I have no problem with this at all.

I already told my reason for stopping my racing aspirations with the EPO I'll most likely need for the renal failure I have. I don't believe that USA Cycling will grant a "urgent need" waiver or what other type of waiver could be granted, for EPO with its stigma and I agree with this. I would have an advantage, no matter how small over other competitors. Therefore I will not try to enter a sanctioned race, or even an unofficial race. If anyone has knowledge I'd appreciate knowing about the waiver policy. I cannot find it on the USAC website.

Bill
__________________
I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me. Philippians 4:13

"I did not choose to have Parkinson's Disease, I do choose not to allow it to control my life." Davis Phinney

Semper Fi, USMC, November 10, 1775, Tun Tavern, Philadelphia, PA.


Last edited by qcpmsame; 07-24-12 at 08:39 AM.
qcpmsame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 06:08 AM   #11
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent
Posts: 9,099
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
It's sad but really not surprising. A few years back, an up-and-coming local racer was nailed for doping. And he was only Cat 3. The attraction isn't just money; it's the winning record, the championship, the title, whatever. IMHO much more testing should be done at the lower levels because that's where the problem starts.
BlazingPedals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 06:52 AM   #12
Dudelsack 
A might bewildered...
Thread Starter
 
Dudelsack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loovul
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires
Posts: 6,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Given the puffery of some of the posters on the 50+ racing forum, I'd be a bit surprised if every single one of them were clean. $5000 on a bike, $3000 on wheels, racing a full time avocation approaching a job. I can imagine it.
__________________
Signature line for rent.
Dudelsack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 06:57 AM   #13
Bikey Mikey
Senior Member
 
Bikey Mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Newport News, VA USA
Bikes: Diamondback Edgewood LX; Giant Defy 1
Posts: 3,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...and the ones who get away with doping and succeed in races, make it more tempting for others since it's really difficult to be at that level of performance clean. Doping does a disservice to the sport, any sport, to the athlete, and other athletes(especially aspiring and up and coming athletes).
Bikey Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 07:06 AM   #14
AzTallRider 
I need speed
 
AzTallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
Posts: 5,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
Given the puffery of some of the posters on the 50+ racing forum, I'd be a bit surprised if every single one of them were clean. $5000 on a bike, $3000 on wheels, racing a full time avocation approaching a job. I can imagine it.
Having gotten to know most of the other racers here over quite awhile, I'd be shocked if we all aren't clean, and I resent the insinuation, Dudel. The fact that a person is willing to spend their cash and time on a passion does not equate to a willingness to taint whatever success we can achieve. There are and will be cheaters in every sport. The athletes around them generally know who they are. Having to compete against them is a part of life, and especially with an amateur driven sport like cycling, there is just not enough money to find them all. There is frankly no possible way to find them all. They will always be there, just as there will always be those genetically gifted athletes there for you to compete against. Is it fair? No, but few things are. It's part of life, and part of sports, that you have to put yourself up against circumstances that don't favor your success. Overcoming those factors is a big part of the appeal.
__________________
"If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."
AzTallRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 07:25 AM   #15
qcpmsame 
Cycling Saved My Life
 
qcpmsame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Bikes: '12 CAAD 10 Ultegra, '78 Medici Pro Strada
Posts: 9,830
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
There is no way I would believe that the 50+ members, in the racing sub-forum, that race dope in any way form or fashion. I've been in their sub-forum a lot and found them to be dedicated to a clean manner of training and of avoiding any means of illicit enhancement,as well as helpful and willing to help a rank newbie, like me, Dudel. not sure if your reply was tongue in cheek or serious but that is a pretty serious slap there. Might want to rethink that one. JMHO.

Bill
__________________
I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me. Philippians 4:13

"I did not choose to have Parkinson's Disease, I do choose not to allow it to control my life." Davis Phinney

Semper Fi, USMC, November 10, 1775, Tun Tavern, Philadelphia, PA.

qcpmsame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 07:56 AM   #16
cocar
Senior Member
 
cocar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Bikes: Treck lexa SC
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm speaking in the theoretical here. Don't everyone get their nose out of joint. I think endurance sports, and competitve cycling, from what I can tell, attracts a certain type of people. Really driven, focused people, that may tend to be a little compulsive. A subset of racers in that group are ultra competitive and compulsive--the more they win, the more they train, the more compulsive they get--it's a cycle. As this happens, their world gets smaller. And they start to lose perspective about what matters, even about what is right or wrong. All that matters is winning--at any cost. This is when you get 40+ dopers at amater events. Or any dopers, really. And of course, once you start, you're not stopping.

Funny how they sound just like regular drug addicts. In that article about that guy from the gran fondo, he sounded like any garden variety addict. He had just totally lost perspective that what he was doing was actually crazy.
cocar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:08 AM   #17
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Bikes: 2001 Litespeed Tuscany and 2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod
Posts: 16,666
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
Two amateurs, including the winner of the 45-49 year age division of the Gran Fondo of New York, tested positive for EPO. Turns out that USADA thought that it would be a good idea to test the winners, given that they get some substantial prizes.

Anyone here need to come clean?
I've never ridden in a Gran Fondo but I do use performance enhancing substances when riding. I always have Gu or Hammer gel with me.
__________________


The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. - Psalm 103:8
RonH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:21 AM   #18
chasm54
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Bikes:
Posts: 8,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
Given the puffery of some of the posters on the 50+ racing forum, I'd be a bit surprised if every single one of them were clean. $5000 on a bike, $3000 on wheels, racing a full time avocation approaching a job. I can imagine it.

That's a pretty serious imputation, as well as a foolish one. Spending one's money on a nice bike is evidence one might be a doper?

And you're quite the hypocrite, aren't you? It's only recently that you were posting about these people in admiring terms. But now it's "puffery". I guess your opinion varies with which gallery you're playing to, on any particular day.
chasm54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:29 AM   #19
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,629
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
I find this thread oddly amusing considering there's a low "T" thread right next door.

If you pull a license, you're held to a much higher medical standard than any other cyclist, and accept that you can be asked to pee in a bottle 24/7. It's in the fine print when you "accept" the terms when buying a license.

Likely? Not unless you go to a National or World event which several of us have. If you medal the chance of testing goes up exponentially. If you win it's pretty likely you'll get tested.

Go look at the WADA list, it's a long way from just EPO and steroids. My really conservative guess is 30-40% of the recreational riding community has been in violation of the code at some point this year. It's a huge list of things that show up in everything from OTC meds to certain brands of soap. Supermarkets, drugstores, health food stores, energy drinks at 7/11.

It's a sport that requires a lot of dedication to be even mediocre at. It requires a thick skin because if you do well, someone is going to trot out that you're doping. But aside from probably saving me from the hereditary heart attack in my mid 40's, it's engaged me physically and mentally and I've made a lot of friends through it. I find that, so far anyway, that's outweighed finding out the guy who kicked my butt was on EPO or having to deal with a few accusations.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:42 AM   #20
Dudelsack 
A might bewildered...
Thread Starter
 
Dudelsack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loovul
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires
Posts: 6,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
That's a pretty serious imputation, as well as a foolish one. Spending one's money on a nice bike is evidence one might be a doper?

And you're quite the hypocrite, aren't you? It's only recently that you were posting about these people in admiring terms. But now it's "puffery". I guess your opinion varies with which gallery you're playing to, on any particular day.
My goodness, you certainly took that personally.
__________________
Signature line for rent.
Dudelsack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:48 AM   #21
Dudelsack 
A might bewildered...
Thread Starter
 
Dudelsack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Loovul
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires
Posts: 6,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
I find this thread oddly amusing considering there's a low "T" thread right next door.

If you pull a license, you're held to a much higher medical standard than any other cyclist, and accept that you can be asked to pee in a bottle 24/7. It's in the fine print when you "accept" the terms when buying a license.

Likely? Not unless you go to a National or World event which several of us have. If you medal the chance of testing goes up exponentially. If you win it's pretty likely you'll get tested.

Go look at the WADA list, it's a long way from just EPO and steroids. My really conservative guess is 30-40% of the recreational riding community has been in violation of the code at some point this year. It's a huge list of things that show up in everything from OTC meds to certain brands of soap. Supermarkets, drugstores, health food stores, energy drinks at 7/11.
I have looked at the WADA list and was surprised what was and what was not on that list. Abuse of opioids are a major issue, but last I looked, a little vicodin showing up in the pee will give Wada no concern. OTOH, the DHEA that spruces up some of the energy supplements will get you an automatic two year suspension.

Some of you are already taking great personal offense, and I find that odd given how I'm not singling anyone out. I'd mention steroid rage but you would not find that at all amusing even if I do. I'm only playing the odds, and the odds are that there are dopers who visit this site. Can't prove, don't really care. Until you test positive you can relax.
__________________
Signature line for rent.
Dudelsack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:53 AM   #22
AzTallRider 
I need speed
 
AzTallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
Posts: 5,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If bike racing doesn't thicken your skin, then nothing will. My skin is pretty thick, and Dudel's comment doesn't upset me, but it was something that needed to be refuted.

Because of bike racing, I've become the type that avoids any drug he possibly can. It's a by-product of being aware of the effect on me of everything I put in my system. In the last few years, I've taken antibiotics for an eye infection, the occasional Advil for a headache, an antacid now and then, and I think that's it. But it's still probable I've violated the WADA list one way or another. I've never had my "T" tested, but intend to at some point. If it is low (entirely possible), and I decide to try to get it up to normal levels, then I'm a doper?
__________________
"If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."
AzTallRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:57 AM   #23
volosong 
Senior Member
 
volosong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope Valley, SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 2,731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
If someone, (okay, me), tested at the low range of "normal" for testosterone and their physician has prescribed a low dose of replacement T ... and I compete/hold a license ... would I be disqualified? My T levels are still below the median.

- - - -

p.s. Androgel does not seem to be on the WADA list that RacerEx posted a link to.
__________________
Deut 6:5

---

"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
- Vizzini during his "battle of wits" with the Man in Black

Last edited by volosong; 07-24-12 at 09:01 AM.
volosong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 08:58 AM   #24
AzTallRider 
I need speed
 
AzTallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
Posts: 5,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
I have looked at the WADA list and was surprised what was and what was not on that list. Abuse of opioids are a major issue, but last I looked, a little vicodin showing up in the pee will give Wada no concern. OTOH, the DHEA that spruces up some of the energy supplements will get you an automatic two year suspension.

Some of you are already taking great personal offense, and I find that odd given how I'm not singling anyone out. I'd mention steroid rage but you would not find that at all amusing even if I do. I'm only playing the odds, and the odds are that there are dopers who visit this site. Can't prove, don't really care. Until you test positive you can relax.
Wow. Someone doesn't have to target an individual to be offensive, and you clearly referenced those of us who post on the racing forum regularly. Own up to having made an unreasonable and offensive post. You just failed a "reasonable" test and are denying even after a positive "B Sample Post". You are now tainted, my respect for you has plummeted, and any intelligent posts you make in the future will be subject to suspicion as having been fueled by Abilify or some similar mental performance enhancer.
__________________
"If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."
AzTallRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-12, 09:04 AM   #25
con
Older I get, faster I was
 
con's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: santa cruz
Bikes:
Posts: 654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Daymn! I'm glad they don't test for the performance enhancing stuff I use.....

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Metamucil.jpg (23.3 KB, 5 views)
con is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:44 PM.