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Old 07-28-12, 12:44 PM   #26
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No, and neither was there a "smoking allowed" sign. The default condition should be "NO SMOKING" - everywhere that is open to non-smokers. You are implying that the default should be "smoking allowed unless otherwise stated." I think the US of A has gotten far beyond that.
If it has, then it is well down the road to the oppressive, nannying, "big government" statism that many Americans seem to reject. Once you are making the default position "you can't do things unless they are explicitly permitted" you have decisively moved away from being a free society, and transferred power from the individual to the petty bureaucrat.

But, hey, maybe none of this is as important as that you should be untroubled by the occasional unpleasant odour.
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Old 07-28-12, 12:57 PM   #27
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I absolutely detest the odor of cigarette smoke. I also detest the odor of diesel exhaust.

I am also aware that people do and will smoke. It's their right and privelige to do so outdoors and in their homes and cars. I don't expect smokers to be herded up and corraled in a sequested area just so that I wont have to smell their cigarettes. That seems unrealistic to me.

I have the free choice to endure the odor or move myself to another location, especially if the smoker was there first. If I was there first I would politely ask the smoker to sit downwind, that is assuming that they hadn't already thought to do so already. Most smokers that I know are aware that their smoke odor is offensive to non-smokers and they take precautions to minimize others exposure to the smoke.

Smoking is prohibited indoors throughout much of the country and many businesses won't even allow it outdoors on their property! I do not expect anyone to inconvenience themselves to suit my fancy. I wouldn't agree to bannish a person to their car for smoking anymore than I would expect diesel engines to all be banned because I think they stink.

I intend no disresect to anyone's opinion here, this is just the way I feel.
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Old 07-28-12, 01:00 PM   #28
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remember the good ol' days when people smoked everywhere? the grocery store floors were one big ashtray, they smoked in banks and offices and waiting rooms, but why shouldn't they when 4 out of 5 doctor recommended Salem brand cigs ? ((phags) that's still so funny).
I don't think there can be an allergy to smoke, it may be an irritant for COPD and noses, but an actual allergy would be stretching it a bit.
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Old 07-28-12, 03:37 PM   #29
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climate change to a conservative?wtf, or maybe you mean global warming.lmao
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Old 07-28-12, 03:44 PM   #30
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Easy solution, ban smoking and make them illegal. Until then I will keep smoking.
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Old 07-28-12, 03:49 PM   #31
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Yes, MY freedom to enjoy a double dipped peanut at a public patio table without the smell of cigarette smoke.
I'm totally against people eating non-nutritious junk food thus causing us increased health care cost to take care of their health issues. If they have to do it they should do it at home where the rest of us don't have to be affronted by it. (He says with Bushmills in hand.)
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Old 07-28-12, 03:57 PM   #32
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RANT

END OF RANT

That feels better
Well, despite the less than unanimous support, I STILL FEEL BETTER!!

So, there.
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Old 07-28-12, 04:00 PM   #33
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I haven't had problems with second hand smoke for years now, but the thing that used to consistently amaze me was that whenever I smelled smoke and looked to find the smoker - they were always upwind of me smoking. It seemed that the smokers themselves don't even like their own smokey stinky smell so they will always position themselves so the smoke blows away from them an onto someone else. THATS what really annoyed me!
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Old 07-28-12, 05:55 PM   #34
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I feel your pain, Dnvr. That said, I realize that however much I may wish that tobacco smoke were completely outlawed, it just ain't gonna happen. Too many stupid (IMHO) people out there get started KNOWING that it's addictive and self-destructive. And if they're gonna do it, I'd much rather they be outside where it's easier to get away from them.
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Old 07-28-12, 07:02 PM   #35
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climate change to a conservative?wtf, or maybe you mean global warming.lmao
The two are 'politically interchangeable', depending on which gang you're arguing with. THAT'S wtf.... Don't parse. It's uncivilized. (Hey, just had to channel Charles Barkley on a Brit foxhunt....)

BTW, DnvrFox -- "YOUR" relaxation area? YOURS is at home, just like mine. That's really the only issue I had with your rant.
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Old 07-28-12, 07:06 PM   #36
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DnvrFox, there is nothing wrong with a rant once in awhile. Anyway, I'm told that a pack of smokes now costs in excess of five bucks. What?!?!?
You would think that the price alone would cause them all to quit, but nooooooo..... Five bucks, times however many packs they go through in a week, and you
are talking serious money.

Last edited by trackhub; 07-28-12 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 07-28-12, 07:25 PM   #37
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DnvrFox, there is nothing wrong with a rant once in awhile. Anyway, I'm told that a pack of smokes now costs in excess of five bucks. What?!?!?
are talking serious money.
I thinks it's close to $10 in NYNY, if not more.
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Old 07-28-12, 07:34 PM   #38
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http://www.theawl.com/2012/06/pack-of-cigarettes-cost

51. West Virginia (last year $4.74): $4.84 = +2%
50. New Hampshire ($5.87): $4.86 = -20%
49. Tennessee ($5.56): $4.91 = -13%
48. North Dakota ($4.91): $5.03 = +2%
47. Idaho ($4.99): $5.11 +2%
46. North Carolina ($5.51): $5.14 = -7%
45. Alabama ($5.27): $5.18 = -2%
44. Colorado ($5.96): $5.19 = -15%
43. Wyoming ($5.50): $5.21 = -6%
42. Oklahoma ($6.19): $5.24 = -18%
41. Virginia ($5.55): $5.43 = -2%
40. Mississippi ($5.75): $5.55 = -4%
39. Indiana ($5.50): $5.56 = +1%
38. Ohio ($6.22): $5.67 -10%
37. Oregon ($5.59): $5.74 +3%
36. Missouri ($5.58): $5.87 +5%
35. Georgia ($5.29): $5.93 = +12%
34. Minnesota ($6.53): $5.96 = +10%
33. Nebraska ($5.55): $5.99 = +8%
32. Nevada ($5.93): $6.04 = +2%
31. Delaware ($6.00): $6.10 = +2%
30. Montana ($5.99): $6.12 = +2%
29. South Carolina ($5.42): $6.25 = +15%
28. Florida ($6.08): $6.29 = +3%
27. California ($5.19): $6.45 = +24%
26. Kansas ($6.00): $6.47 = + 8%
25-24. Louisiana($4.82), Michigan ($6.90): $6.50 = +35%, -6%
23. Maryland ($6.70): $6.53 = -3%
22. Kentucky ($4.97): $6.56 = +32%
21. New Mexico ($6.88): $6.69 = -3%
20. South Dakota ($6.03): $6.82 = +13%
19. Utah ($7.22): $6.88 = – 5%
18. Texas ($6.07) $6.89 = +14%
17. Pennsylvania ($6.80): $6.93 = +2%
16. Maine ($7.97): $6.97 = -14%
15. Arkansas ($5.96): $7.10 = +19%
14. Arizona ($6.87): $7.46 = +9%
13. Iowa ($6.00): $7.52 = +25 %
12. Vermont ($8.23) $7.60 = -8%
11. Wisconsin ($8.11): $7.98 = -2%
10. New Jersey ($8.35): $8.00 = -4%
9. Rhode Island ($8.60): $8.16 = -5%
8. Washington D.C. ($7.99): $8.27 = +4%
7. Massachusetts ($8.30): $8.49 = +2%
6. Connecticut ($8.25): $8.85 = +7%
5. Washington ($9.89): $8.98 = -10%
4. Alaska ($9.14): $9.39 = +3% *
3. Hawaii ($9.73) = +5%
2. Illinois ($9.67): $10.25 = +6%
1. New York ($11.90): $12.50 = +5%

A pack a day over a year = one nice bike!!

Last edited by DnvrFox; 07-28-12 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 07-28-12, 07:39 PM   #39
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you could get a very nice custom steel/CF ride for the cost of dropping that habit for a year.
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Old 07-28-12, 10:41 PM   #40
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I don't think there can be an allergy to smoke, it may be an irritant for COPD and noses, but an actual allergy would be stretching it a bit.
And you are wrong in what you think. With nicotine and the large number of other hazardous chemicals in cigarettes and their resulting smoke, those chemicals do cause allergic reactions in humans. Tobacco and tobacco smoke are two of the key allergens that medical specialist test for.

Nicotine is nasty enough that when wet, it is absorbed through the skin. Farm worker have died from nicotine overdose when working tobacco crops in wet conditions.

For the smokers that feel it is their right to blow smoke into my breathing zone, I am curious what their reaction would be if I sent a few puffs of irritant smoke their way and then I enjoyed watching them coughing their heads off.
http://www.gemplers.com/product/FT50...e-Fit-Test-Kit

As the smokers say, it is a free world, and like them, I should be able to send a few puffs of smoke their way.
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Old 07-28-12, 10:43 PM   #41
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LOL, people that ride bicycles on roads with cars mentioning other things as health hazards. With my not so good digestive system, I can usually make an even more noxious odor.
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Old 07-28-12, 10:57 PM   #42
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LOL, people that ride bicycles on roads with cars mentioning other things as health hazards. With my not so good digestive system, I can usually make an even more noxious odor.
You have been in the forums long enough to read the studies that show drivers breath in greater amounts of toxic exhaust compared to cyclist.
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Old 07-29-12, 01:06 AM   #43
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If it has, then it is well down the road to the oppressive, nannying, "big government" statism that many Americans seem to reject. Once you are making the default position "you can't do things unless they are explicitly permitted" you have decisively moved away from being a free society, and transferred power from the individual to the petty bureaucrat.
So would that be a conservative or a liberal trait?
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Old 07-29-12, 01:37 AM   #44
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So would that be a conservative or a liberal trait?
I'd be happy to debate that with you in P&R. Suffice it to say here that authoritarianism is undesirable, wherever it originates on the political spectrum.
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Old 07-29-12, 02:06 AM   #45
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And you are wrong in what you think. With nicotine and the large number of other hazardous chemicals in cigarettes and their resulting smoke, those chemicals do cause allergic reactions in humans. Tobacco and tobacco smoke are two of the key allergens that medical specialist test for.
Nicotine is nasty enough that when wet, it is absorbed through the skin. Farm worker have died from nicotine overdose when working tobacco crops in wet conditions.
For the smokers that feel it is their right to blow smoke into my breathing zone, I am curious what their reaction would be if I sent a few puffs of irritant smoke their way and then I enjoyed watching them coughing their heads off.
As the smokers say, it is a free world, and like them, I should be able to send a few puffs of smoke their way.
yes nicotine is deadly, and a smoke contains enough chemicals in it to kill you were you able to suck in all that smoke at once. the second-hand smoke would certainly be more of an irritant to someone already suffering with an allergy and some folks would be more sensitive to smoke for a variety of reasons. but the smoke allergy was invented by a condo-owner that hated another condo owner (that smoked) and invented this allergy in order to force the neighbor to move-out. don't worry there's treatment for the non-existent smoke-allergy somewhere, our medical system cures a lot of non-existent aliments for the right price.
http://webdan65.hubpages.com/hub/All...igarette-Smoke
http://www.sharecare.com/question/is...ke-an-allergen

. . .so what does a fresh banana taste like anyway?
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Old 07-29-12, 07:30 AM   #46
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http://www.theawl.com/2012/06/pack-of-cigarettes-cost

51. West Virginia (last year $4.74): $4.84 = +2%
50. New Hampshire ($5.87): $4.86 = -20%
49. Tennessee ($5.56): $4.91 = -13%
48. North Dakota ($4.91): $5.03 = +2%
47. Idaho ($4.99): $5.11 +2%
46. North Carolina ($5.51): $5.14 = -7%
45. Alabama ($5.27): $5.18 = -2%
44. Colorado ($5.96): $5.19 = -15%
43. Wyoming ($5.50): $5.21 = -6%
42. Oklahoma ($6.19): $5.24 = -18%
41. Virginia ($5.55): $5.43 = -2%
40. Mississippi ($5.75): $5.55 = -4%
39. Indiana ($5.50): $5.56 = +1%
38. Ohio ($6.22): $5.67 -10%
37. Oregon ($5.59): $5.74 +3%
36. Missouri ($5.58): $5.87 +5%
35. Georgia ($5.29): $5.93 = +12%
34. Minnesota ($6.53): $5.96 = +10%
33. Nebraska ($5.55): $5.99 = +8%
32. Nevada ($5.93): $6.04 = +2%
31. Delaware ($6.00): $6.10 = +2%
30. Montana ($5.99): $6.12 = +2%
29. South Carolina ($5.42): $6.25 = +15%
28. Florida ($6.08): $6.29 = +3%
27. California ($5.19): $6.45 = +24%
26. Kansas ($6.00): $6.47 = + 8%
25-24. Louisiana($4.82), Michigan ($6.90): $6.50 = +35%, -6%
23. Maryland ($6.70): $6.53 = -3%
22. Kentucky ($4.97): $6.56 = +32%
21. New Mexico ($6.88): $6.69 = -3%
20. South Dakota ($6.03): $6.82 = +13%
19. Utah ($7.22): $6.88 = 5%
18. Texas ($6.07) $6.89 = +14%
17. Pennsylvania ($6.80): $6.93 = +2%
16. Maine ($7.97): $6.97 = -14%
15. Arkansas ($5.96): $7.10 = +19%
14. Arizona ($6.87): $7.46 = +9%
13. Iowa ($6.00): $7.52 = +25 %
12. Vermont ($8.23) $7.60 = -8%
11. Wisconsin ($8.11): $7.98 = -2%
10. New Jersey ($8.35): $8.00 = -4%
9. Rhode Island ($8.60): $8.16 = -5%
8. Washington D.C. ($7.99): $8.27 = +4%
7. Massachusetts ($8.30): $8.49 = +2%
6. Connecticut ($8.25): $8.85 = +7%
5. Washington ($9.89): $8.98 = -10%
4. Alaska ($9.14): $9.39 = +3% *
3. Hawaii ($9.73) = +5%
2. Illinois ($9.67): $10.25 = +6%
1. New York ($11.90): $12.50 = +5%

A pack a day over a year = one nice bike!!

WTF?!?!? I'm not up on cigarette stuff. I had no idea. So, do people smoke for the same reasons they did decades ago?

-to be cool.
-peer pressure.
-The "nobody tells ME what to do" school of thought.

I'm not sure what the law is in MA on this, but if you go into any Best Buy (Oh, the horror..) you will usually see some of the employees, usually young, outside smoking.
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Old 07-29-12, 07:40 AM   #47
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There are many "bad" things for us to do and we engage in them every day. Some we do by choice (think alcohol) and some the government and corporations foist upon us (think genetically modified crops) and make it difficult for us to choose not to engage. I prefer to indulge in my vices in a manner that doesn't affect the health of others. So, for instance, I don't smoke my little cigars inside. But, if I can enjoy one outside while drinking a cup of coffee or a beer I have no problem doing that.
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Old 07-29-12, 07:52 AM   #48
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If it has, then it is well down the road to the oppressive, nannying, "big government" statism that many Americans seem to reject. Once you are making the default position "you can't do things unless they are explicitly permitted" you have decisively moved away from being a free society, and transferred power from the individual to the petty bureaucrat.

But, hey, maybe none of this is as important as that you should be untroubled by the occasional unpleasant odour.
It's not just an unpleasant, disgusting odor, it's carcinogenic. It's an addictive drug which causes more death and health problems than all other drugs combined.
It's also the only addictive drug which, when used in public, is administered to other non willing people, albeit in smaller doses.
Anyone who thinks it is not possible to be allergic to tobacco smoke, I wish you could spend an hour in my shoes when I am exposed to that crap.
If I breathe a small amount of it throughout the day, as happens at work, I get terrible headaches, fluid in my lungs, and my sinuses swell shut.
If I breathe a little more, like if I go to party with smokers, my eyes are swollen shut the next day.
One of my sisters is the same way, as is one of my nieces. A guy at work will vomit if he is exposed to enough of it.

I don't want to ban tobacco, I just want smokers to respect non smoking areas.
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Old 07-29-12, 09:12 AM   #49
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It's not just an unpleasant, disgusting odor, it's carcinogenic. It's an addictive drug which causes more death and health problems than all other drugs combined.
It's also the only addictive drug which, when used in public, is administered to other non willing people, albeit in smaller doses.
Anyone who thinks it is not possible to be allergic to tobacco smoke, I wish you could spend an hour in my shoes when I am exposed to that crap.
If I breathe a small amount of it throughout the day, as happens at work, I get terrible headaches, fluid in my lungs, and my sinuses swell shut.
If I breathe a little more, like if I go to party with smokers, my eyes are swollen shut the next day.
One of my sisters is the same way, as is one of my nieces. A guy at work will vomit if he is exposed to enough of it.

I don't want to ban tobacco, I just want smokers to respect non smoking areas.
Here, here. My MIL is allergic to cigarette smoke. She has much the same reactions as you John. I don't think I'm allergic, but I find it terribly unpleasant and a throat irritant.

I find it annoying when in order to enter some businesses, I have to go through a gauntlet of cigarette smoke from customers getting their last drag(s) before putting it out and going in. I can complain to management about employees smoking near entrances, but can't do much about customers doing so other than give a disapproving look.

Definition of Allergic
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Old 07-29-12, 09:32 AM   #50
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I quit drinking, smoking and chasing women and it was the worst week of my life.

Second hand smoke does not bother me much when I am riding my bike. The diesel exhaust can be a little aggravating.

I have always tried to encourage people not to start smoking and to stop smoking but I have not had much success. So I decided to just buy stock in tobacco companies.

Our government is making big money from the taxes on tobacco. There is little incentive to stop its sale. I have heard that China has a very high percentage of their people that smoke. China also has pulmonary wards full of patients with lung cancer. The tax money that China gets seems to out weigh the cost of health care so all is good.

Lit em if you got em.

I wont make you quit smoking if you wont make me start smoking.
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