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  1. #51
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    Despite the dangers of passive smoking, a single smoker in the open air does not really pose a threat to anyone else's health. One may not like the smell - I don't myself, having been an ex-smoker for a long time. But merely disliking other people's habits is insufficient reason to ban them. Lots of people do things I don't like. But their rights are just as important as mine.
    I think this sums it up very well. It's an open space, they have the right to smoke, and you have the right to either deal with it or go elsewhere. If you choose the latter option you also have the right to tell the management why you've gone elsewhere, and they have the right to either deal with the issue or ignore it and lose your business.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  2. #52
    Senior Member work4bike's Avatar
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    I got a fix for you. Go do a tour in Europe or Asia and then come back here, why? Because it'd build up your tolerance to smoke
    "The aim of science is to make difficult things understandable in a simpler way; the aim of poetry is to state simple things in an incomprehensible way. The two are incompatible."

    -- Paul Dirac

  3. #53
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    I think this sums it up very well. It's an open space, they have the right to smoke, and you have the right to either deal with it or go elsewhere. If you choose the latter option you also have the right to tell the management why you've gone elsewhere, and they have the right to either deal with the issue or ignore it and lose your business.
    Denver also has the right to not like the situation and to share the fact that he doesn't like it with us.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    All this talk about "rights". With rights comes responsibilities. Then there's the other word tossed around: freedom.

  5. #55
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Denver also has the right to not like the situation and to share the fact that he doesn't like it with us.
    I didn't see anyone saying otherwise. The debate has been about his apparent belief that people shouldn't be allowed to do things he dislikes in a public space.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    I didn't see anyone saying otherwise. The debate has been about his apparent belief that people shouldn't be allowed to do things he dislikes in a public space.
    So when the title started with the word "RANT" you were expecting something rational?

  7. #57
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    So when the title started with the word "RANT" you were expecting something rational?
    I try not to expect things. It saves me from a lot of disappointment.

  8. #58
    Senior Member DaveWC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    No, and neither was there a "smoking allowed" sign. The default condition should be "NO SMOKING" - everywhere that is open to non-smokers. You are implying that the default should be "smoking allowed unless otherwise stated." I think the US of A has gotten far beyond that.
    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    If there was a sign or an indication stating "People with peanut allergies are sitting here, or are going to sit here." - then I would not eat them there.
    There's where your argument broke down. You are willing to stop putting others' lives in danger if they post a sign, yet you expect the default to be that people don't smoke regardless of signage. How can you justify the double standard? Especially since someone with a severe peanut allergy (my son has one) can have a life threatening reaction simply by touching something you touched with peanut oil on your fingers. Your rant is on the basis of discomfort, my son's is on the basis of life & potential death.

  9. #59
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    I didn't see anyone saying otherwise. The debate has been about his apparent belief that people shouldn't be allowed to do things he dislikes in a public space.
    It's not things he dislikes, it's being subjected to ingesting the drug they are using. When someone else has to inhale your smoke, they have a right to complain.
    As severely as cigarette smoke kicks my ass, I can certainly see the logic behind restricting exposure to non-willing people.

    I've fought with smokers at work and eventually they have all agreed to keep it away from me, (I work outside). I thank them for this and if they want to smoke , that's their business, as long as they don't force others to breath it.
    Still, sometime they come around and after a day with several exposures, I use an albutirol inhaler to help me breathe and take Ibuprofin for the headaches.

    If you don't think a one time exposure can kill, it can. Years ago when smoking was allowed on airplanes a man died from anaphalaxis on a flight.

  10. #60
    Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad Rx Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
    Here, here. My MIL is allergic to cigarette smoke. She has much the same reactions as you John. I don't think I'm allergic, but I find it terribly unpleasant and a throat irritant.

    Definition of Allergic
    much like how the stomach flu 'became' a legitimate illness mostly to simplify a variety of aliments that would be embarrassing if the true label were to be used. we used to get the runs, or food poisoning,(or ???) now we have the imaginary stomach "flu". it mimics enough symptoms of a real flu enough that you can definitely feel in your mind it's a flu but that's not how the flu bug works.

    cigarette smoke lacks the protein necessary to be a real allergen, but it's one of the best man made irritants around and mimics allergy attacks well enough in sensitive people that's for sure. and it's smell is so acute that folks with sensitive noses can be bothered big time.
    sadly if we were to roll our own bright leaf tobacco, while not being exactly healthy for you, it wouldn't have all the extra chemicals and nicotine added in to make the super lethal product we have today. cigarettes used to stop burning when you ignored them. now thanks to additives one will smolder away into ash if left unattended, progress through chemicals.

    I don't blame doctor's so much for generalizing or lumping conditions together, it's not like one of us would die from being misdiagnosed with the stomach flu or a smoke allergy. so there's no harm in perpetuating the myth's.

    http://webdan65.hubpages.com/hub/Smo...e-This-Article

  11. #61
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Whatever you and Dr. Oz want to call it, it's a real thing. It's not the smell that gets me, in fact I don't even have to smell it to get sick.
    If people smoke 40 feet away from me and it drifts into my work area, voila! A hacking cough, closed sinuses, and headache will come.

  12. #62
    Humvee of bikes =Worksman Nightshade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    RANT

    I went for an early am (6:00) ride, then came home for breakfast at 7:30 with the wife and then we rode together for a few miles. Since I use my bikes a lot for errands, I carry a small Kiva foldup backpack (extremely handy and extremely small when folded)


    Attachment 264049

    in each bike, including my road bike. So, I detoured to Sprouts to get some fruit which I placed in the back pack. I also bought a FEW (yes, just a few) double dipped chocolate covered peanuts which I hoped to enjoy in the outside patio area of the store. So, I sat down, and there was that horrendous smell of a lit cigarette. A store employee was smoking at the patio table, totally ruining the ambience.

    I find this common. In CO, you are not supposed to smoke in XX feet of a store entrance, so they all go around the corner and hog the patio tables with their cigarettes and smell.

    In answer to the obvious question, "Well, where are they supposed to smoke?' the even more obvious answer is "nowhere." And, if they really have to, they can hike out to their cars and smoke there with the windows rolled up, further enhancing the cancer-causing effect of smoking, and I say, "Good riddance" to them.

    END OF RANT

    That feels better
    Denver, I suprized and a shamed of you. Such bigotry from a man such as yourself is unbelievable.

    I, too, don't like cigarette smoke even tho I enjoy a pipe. That said, I never let myself forget this question.......Where do your rights end and mine begin?

    You forgot this question with your selfish rant. Other people that also smoke have just as many rights as you do. You, nor anyone else, has the right to demonize others for
    actions that you would not do.
    My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
    I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.

    Originally Posted by krazygluon
    Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?

  13. #63
    Warning:Annoying to jerks RaleighSport's Avatar
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    I've already made it clear I'm done conversing with the OP in this thread anyhow. But I would like to ask a couple questions, especially of the smoke sensitive people if that's alright with them.

    1: How many if any other things also set you off besides cigarette smoke and I meant with actual symptoms? (please be honest).

    2: Can someone please explain to me how a group of people who suck car exhaust constantly while out enjoying our sport can freak over cigarette smoke more then engine fumes!!!!!!! Well?

    3: This ones for the smokers: how many of you do not make any efforts to spare others the displeasure of being in a cloud of smoke? (again please be honest)
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”


    ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Emerson in His Journals

  14. #64
    Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad Rx Rider's Avatar
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    that's what's scary about cigs big john, they attack the bodies of nearly everyone around them, and second hand smoke is harder because smokers have a "wall" of mucous coating the lungs, that works as protection. you have unslimed lungs and chemicals can easily be absorbed into your body, which is already super sensitive to those irritants in smoke. plus second hand smokers don't have the luxury of a filter to breathe through.

  15. #65
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
    Denver, I suprized and a shamed of you. Such bigotry from a man such as yourself is unbelievable.

    I, too, don't like cigarette smoke even tho I enjoy a pipe. That said, I never let myself forget this question.......Where do your rights end and mine begin?

    You forgot this question with your selfish rant. Other people that also smoke have just as many rights as you do. You, nor anyone else, has the right to demonize others for
    actions that you would not do.
    Obviously, I have very strong feelings on this subject. As to rights, your right to smoke can and should be restricted when you are exposing others to the smoke.
    This is why we don't allow smoking in restaurants. Other people should not have to partake in the addiction of smokers.
    You can smoke all you want as long as you aren't forcing others to join you.

  16. #66
    Warning:Annoying to jerks RaleighSport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big john View Post
    Obviously, I have very strong feelings on this subject. As to rights, your right to smoke can and should be restricted when you are exposing others to the smoke.
    This is why we don't allow smoking in restaurants. Other people should not have to partake in the addiction of smokers.
    You can smoke all you want as long as you aren't forcing others to join you.
    *cough* car emissions *cough*
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”


    ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Emerson in His Journals

  17. #67
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
    1: How many if any other things also set you off besides cigarette smoke and I meant with actual symptoms? (please be honest).
    I work as a car mechanic and breathe exhaust fumes, gasoline, petrochemicals and solvents and nothing in my life has ever kicked my ass like tobacco smoke.
    I worked in a shop with a bunch of chainsmokers and my wife said when I came home my skin was grey. The headaches were so bad I thought I had a brain tumor.

  18. #68
    Warning:Annoying to jerks RaleighSport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big john View Post
    I work as a car mechanic and breathe exhaust fumes, gasoline, petrochemicals and solvents and nothing in my life has ever kicked my ass like tobacco smoke.
    I worked in a shop with a bunch of chainsmokers and my wife said when I came home my skin was grey. The headaches were so bad I thought I had a brain tumor.
    YOWCH! But you're in LA, they still smoke right next to the shop itself?!?!?!
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”


    ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Emerson in His Journals

  19. #69
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
    YOWCH! But you're in LA, they still smoke right next to the shop itself?!?!?!
    I no longer work at that place. It was a pay by the hour shop so there was no incentive to work and some guys would just sit around smoking all day. Now I'm at a commission only shop so we have to work to get paid.

    I actually work in Burbank, which has very strong anti-smoking laws. In the malls and downtown areas smoking isn't even allowed on the sidewalks.
    They aren't supposed to smoke within 25? feet of the door to any business, but the guys at work don't pay attention to the law, as there is no enforcement on the job site.
    Like I said, I have discussed the problem with the smokers there and they are usually pretty good about it.

  20. #70
    Dirt Bomb sknhgy's Avatar
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    Personally, I think you are being too picky. I'm an ex-smoker and if someone were to light up in a car or other enclosed space I would go ballistic. However, outside it smells kind of good. Justy like any other wood/brush/leaf fire. I hate loud cycles, rap music, barking dogs, etc. No use getting upset about it. Deal with it and enjoy them chocolate covered goobers.
    more cops have been killed by donuts than guns in chicago it is a medical fact ask any doctor.

  21. #71
    Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad Rx Rider's Avatar
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    I (exsmoker) too (sometimes) enjoy the aromatic wiff of cig smoke, but something happens in my brain every time I do smell that 'smoke'. something. that doesn't happen very often so when it does I like to pay attention. that 'something' to me or sknhgy might not be life changing, but someone else's brain that something goes from slightly bothered to gravely ill. why? maybe the hundreds of chemicals in the cig mixing with the chemicals in the head, it's more complicated than I could pretend to understand.

    *Ed* there's a big diff in a wiff from a far (for most of us) and a puffer standing next to you. you'd think the store would force the employee to sit on the dumpster for their smoke breaks, like burger king seems to make their employees do. or provide some alt. lots and LOTS of companies are telling their employees there will be no tobacco usage on their property.
    Last edited by Rx Rider; 07-29-12 at 03:22 PM.

  22. #72
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Tthis is as good as a helmet thread!
    Almost gone from the 50+ forum. - Email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for another fun new group of 50+ folks

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
    I've already made it clear I'm done conversing with the OP in this thread anyhow. But I would like to ask a couple questions, especially of the smoke sensitive people if that's alright with them.

    1: How many if any other things also set you off besides cigarette smoke and I meant with actual symptoms? (please be honest).

    2: Can someone please explain to me how a group of people who suck car exhaust constantly while out enjoying our sport can freak over cigarette smoke more then engine fumes!!!!!!! Well?

    3: This ones for the smokers: how many of you do not make any efforts to spare others the displeasure of being in a cloud of smoke? (again please be honest)
    I'm not particularly sensitive to smoke I just don't like it. I also don't like my neighbors playing loud music in their backyard at midnight while I'm trying to read or sleep. Neither cause me physical harm but they are definitely an intrusion.

    Fortunately, I don't have to worry much about cigarette smoke as it's not allowed in pubs or restaurants around here so the discussion is somewhat moot for me.

  24. #74
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big john View Post
    Years ago when smoking was allowed on airplanes a man died from anaphalaxis on a flight.
    One death isn't a good basis for anything. In the UK there was recently a case where a cyclist was prosecuted for something like "wanton and furious cycling" after he knocked down and killed a pedestrian.

    The pedestrian didn't consent to the interaction. Should we ban cycling as well?
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  25. #75
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    One death isn't a good basis for anything. In the UK there was recently a case where a cyclist was prosecuted for something like "wanton and furious cycling" after he knocked down and killed a pedestrian.

    The pedestrian didn't consent to the interaction. Should we ban cycling as well?
    I never said anything about banning anything. Ridiculous analogy.
    My point was that the exposure to even small amounts of this terrible drug can be harmful to some.

    Just as we have laws to protect people from harm by motor vehicles and bicycles we should have laws to protect us from this stupid, useless drug.
    Smoke all you want, just don't make me do it.

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