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-   -   RANT: Smokers have taken over my relaxing areas (http://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus-50/835469-rant-smokers-have-taken-over-my-relaxing-areas.html)

DnvrFox 07-28-12 10:28 AM

RANT: Smokers have taken over my relaxing areas
 
RANT

I went for an early am (6:00) ride, then came home for breakfast at 7:30 with the wife and then we rode together for a few miles. Since I use my bikes a lot for errands, I carry a small Kiva foldup backpack (extremely handy and extremely small when folded)


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=264049

in each bike, including my road bike. So, I detoured to Sprouts to get some fruit which I placed in the back pack. I also bought a FEW (yes, just a few) double dipped chocolate covered peanuts which I hoped to enjoy in the outside patio area of the store. So, I sat down, and there was that horrendous smell of a lit cigarette. A store employee was smoking at the patio table, totally ruining the ambience.

I find this common. In CO, you are not supposed to smoke in XX feet of a store entrance, so they all go around the corner and hog the patio tables with their cigarettes and smell.

In answer to the obvious question, "Well, where are they supposed to smoke?' the even more obvious answer is "nowhere." And, if they really have to, they can hike out to their cars and smoke there with the windows rolled up, further enhancing the cancer-causing effect of smoking, and I say, "Good riddance" to them.

END OF RANT

That feels better :)

chasm54 07-28-12 10:30 AM

Land of the free?

qcpmsame 07-28-12 10:34 AM

Go speak to a manager and tell them the employees killing themselves are making you consider going elsewhere to shop, nicely. I'd think my customers health and enjoyment was more important than employees getting emphysema or COPD. Since I stopped my pipe 12 years ago and now loosing my F-I-L to COPD/emphysema last year I have less and les tolerance for smokers. End of my rant, sorry for the double header.

And, just because you have a "Right or freedom" does not mean it is a good thing for you to do it, either.

Bill

DnvrFox 07-28-12 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasm54 (Post 14538333)
Land of the free?


Yes, MY freedom to enjoy a double dipped peanut at a public patio table without the smell of cigarette smoke.

RaleighSport 07-28-12 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnvrFox (Post 14538354)
Yes, MY freedom to enjoy a double dipped peanut at a public patio table without the smell of cigarette smoke.

Your chocolate covered peanuts offend me and will lead you down a nasty path of obesity.. I want legislation passed to control where and what you can eat. :D

NOS88 07-28-12 10:47 AM

I can sure understand the frustration, and encourage you not to demonize the person smoking. Abhor the act? Yes. But there is a danger is equating a person's total worth with the observation of a single act. I like Bill's suggestion of speaking with the manager. In Pennsylvania smoking on a patio of a place that sells food is still exempt from laws prohibiting smoking.

I'm also going to venture a guess that the "smell" is not the most offensive part. Rather, it's the assault on one's health. Or, maybe not?

chasm54 07-28-12 10:58 AM

Despite the dangers of passive smoking, a single smoker in the open air does not really pose a threat to anyone else's health. One may not like the smell - I don't myself, having been an ex-smoker for a long time. But merely disliking other people's habits is insufficient reason to ban them. Lots of people do things I don't like. But their rights are just as important as mine.

Homeyba 07-28-12 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaleighSport (Post 14538360)
Your chocolate covered peanuts offend me and will lead you down a nasty path of obesity.. I want legislation passed to control where and what you can eat. :D

That's just because you're from the bay area! If that was a transgendered peanut you'd probably be ok with it. ;);)

DnvrFox 07-28-12 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaleighSport (Post 14538360)
Your chocolate covered peanuts offend me and will lead you down a nasty path of obesity.. I want legislation passed to control where and what you can eat. :D

You can't smell my chocolate covered peanuts.

I can smell your $%#@! cigarette, and the smell is uniformly offensive.

DnvrFox 07-28-12 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOS88 (Post 14538396)
I can sure understand the frustration, and encourage you not to demonize the person smoking. Abhor the act? Yes. But there is a danger is equating a person's total worth with the observation of a single act. I like Bill's suggestion of speaking with the manager. In Pennsylvania smoking on a patio of a place that sells food is still exempt from laws prohibiting smoking.

I'm also going to venture a guess that the "smell" is not the most offensive part. Rather, it's the assault on one's health. Or, maybe not?

Nope, it is the smell.

NOS88 07-28-12 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasm54 (Post 14538418)
Despite the dangers of passive smoking, a single smoker in the open air does not really pose a threat to anyone else's health. One may not like the smell - I don't myself, having been an ex-smoker for a long time. But merely disliking other people's habits is insufficient reason to ban them. Lots of people do things I don't like. But their rights are just as important as mine.

Sorry, I beg to differ. The threat is to the smoker's health. The issue of rights gets to be a bit sticky when one factors in the possibility of public funds being used to pay of health care expenses that were the result of years of smoking. So, I don't really want to debate that. My larger point was that there is a risk in demonizing someone because we don't like their behavior.

Mobile 155 07-28-12 11:08 AM

And what happens when they switch to medical MJ? :eek: My big gripe is they still sell beer and other alcohol in glass bottles and glass seems to fly out of car windows and into the bike lane every day. Alcohol seems to force some people to toss out the empty.:mad:

NOS88 07-28-12 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnvrFox (Post 14538443)
Nope, it is the smell.

I wondered.

DnvrFox 07-28-12 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasm54 (Post 14538418)
Despite the dangers of passive smoking, a single smoker in the open air does not really pose a threat to anyone else's health. One may not like the smell - I don't myself, having been an ex-smoker for a long time. But merely disliking other people's habits is insufficient reason to ban them. Lots of people do things I don't like. But their rights are just as important as mine.

I never claimed a danger to MY health.

I didn't say to ban them, now did I?? That is a figment of your imagination made up to bolster your argument.

I said they can smoke in their cars with the windows closed. That is not banning, yet keeps public places smelling better.

RaleighSport 07-28-12 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnvrFox (Post 14538438)
You can't smell my chocolate covered peanuts.

I can smell your $%#@! cigarette, and the smell is uniformly offensive.

Your peanuts could leave residue and kill me. If I had a peanut allergy. And tons of people do.. I'm just trying to point out if you want to control people that much, expect to lose at least that much of your own freedom.

chasm54 07-28-12 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnvrFox (Post 14538455)
I never claimed a danger to MY health.

I didn't say to ban them, now did I?? That is a figment of your imagination made up to bolster your argument.

I said they can smoke in their cars with the windows closed. That is not banning, yet keeps public places smelling better.

Let me rephrase. Your dislike of things is insufficient reason to ban people from doing them in public. No doubt some people dislike sharing patio tables with chocolate peanut-eating old men. But I don't think they would be justified in forcing you to eat your peanuts in private.

DnvrFox 07-28-12 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaleighSport (Post 14538461)
Your peanuts could leave residue and kill me. If I had a peanut allergy. And tons of people do.. I'm just trying to point out if you want to control people that much, expect to lose at least that much of your own freedom.

And many folks have extreme allergies - one of them to cigarette smoke.

If there was a sign or an indication stating "People with peanut allergies are sitting here, or are going to sit here." - then I would not eat them there.

RaleighSport 07-28-12 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnvrFox (Post 14538485)
And many folks have extreme allergies - one of them to cigarette smoke.

If there was a sign or an indication stating "People with peanut allergies are sitting here, or are going to sit here." - then I would not eat them there.

Was there a no smoking sign for the area he was in?

david58 07-28-12 11:26 AM

In the olden days, when so many smoked, we didn't notice the odor so much. Now, with smoking so much less common, and banned from indoors in most locales, the odor is really offensive.

I am amazed at how many companies allow employees to loiter outside near the door, or in "smoke shacks" to have a smoke. First, I do get tired of seeing folks using company time to kill themselves slowly. Whether I work there or not, if I do any kind of business there that costs me money. And I am consistently surprised when grocery stores and the like allow employees to have a visible-to-the-public smoke area, and more surprised that picnic table areas set up for the public end up containing the smoking employees.

I wonder if these outfits realized how offended their patrons are at this behavior? I simply don't shop at stores where I have to pass through the cloud, and certainly wouldn't linger and enjoy my chocolate covered peanuts there. Likely wouldn't buy them there any more.

You are free to smoke. I am free to vote with my feet.

Mort Canard 07-28-12 11:29 AM

Denver,
I feel your pain and I have the same revulsion for the smell of tobacco smoke, especially cigar smoke. I am willing, however, to trade the smokers some open air smoking preserves for not having to put up with second hand smoke in enclosed businesses, restaurants and bars. Before the smoking bans of the last five or so years I and my friends have been effectively run out of a number of sports bars by second hand smoke. We complained to the owners and to a person they all said that they didn't like the smokers but they weren't willing to kick customers out for smoking in public businesses which was legal at the time.

When push comes to shove I would say that I don't have a problem with businesses giving smoking customers and employees a reasonable place to smoke outdoors. I would hazard a guess that the grocery chain may have built the outdoor patio to accommodate smokers in the first place.

gforeman 07-28-12 11:43 AM

I take my mother to the hospital (a SMOKE FREE ZONE), and there are no-smoking signs everywhere, yet, people are outside smoking. Even one lady wheeling her IV around. I asked the customer service desk why the non-smoking is not enforced, she said the guards just don't really care, but they harass the crap out of me when I pull up to unload my mother who can barely walk (on Oxygen from smoking all her life).

So I stopped at a lady on a bench under the no-smoking sign lighting up, ask her if she could read the sign. She literally told me to go "F" myself, she'll smoke where she wants. I truly wanted to smack the cigarette right out of her mouth.

DnvrFox 07-28-12 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mort Canard (Post 14538508)
Denver,
I feel your pain and I have the same revulsion for the smell of tobacco smoke, especially cigar smoke. I am willing, however, to trade the smokers some open air smoking preserves for not having to put up with second hand smoke in enclosed businesses, restaurants and bars. Before the smoking bans of the last five or so years I and my friends have been effectively run out of a number of sports bars by second hand smoke. We complained to the owners and to a person they all said that they didn't like the smokers but they weren't willing to kick customers out for smoking in public businesses which was legal at the time.

When push comes to shove I would say that I don't have a problem with businesses giving smoking customers and employees a reasonable place to smoke outdoors. I would hazard a guess that the grocery chain may have built the outdoor patio to accommodate smokers in the first place.

No.

But I have no objection to there being two outdoors places - one for the public and one for the smokers, as long as the smoke does not go from one to the other. Prior to the smoking bans, these were not smoking refuges, they were used by the general public. With the smoking bans, and the limitation on smoking within XX feet of a door entrance, these were used by the general public.

So, yes, two outside areas - one for and one not for smokers.

DnvrFox 07-28-12 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaleighSport (Post 14538488)
Was there a no smoking sign for the area he was in?

No, and neither was there a "smoking allowed" sign. The default condition should be "NO SMOKING" - everywhere that is open to non-smokers. You are implying that the default should be "smoking allowed unless otherwise stated." I think the US of A has gotten far beyond that.

RaleighSport 07-28-12 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnvrFox (Post 14538564)
No, and neither was there a "smoking allowed" sign. The default condition should be "NO SMOKING" - everywhere that is open to non-smokers. You are implying that the default should be "smoking allowed unless otherwise stated." I think the US of A has gotten far beyond that.

:/ I see you either get my point and don't care, or can't see it. I wish you the best but I'm abandoning this sinking ship now.

DX-MAN 07-28-12 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobile 155 (Post 14538449)
And what happens when they switch to medical MJ? :eek: My big gripe is they still sell beer and other alcohol in glass bottles and glass seems to fly out of car windows and into the bike lane every day. Alcohol seems to force some people to toss out the empty.:mad:

THIS. I have made a vow to myself that, if I ever catch some damned drunk busting a beer bottle where I ride, I will bodyslam that ass ON THE BROKEN BOTTLE. (So far, 8 years and no slams....)

I agree with the cigarette smell being offensive; but you will NOT enlighten a smoker in any way. Secondhand smoke to a smoker is like climate change to a conservative, or subwoofer noise to a ghetto thug -- a trifle.

Now, get them to change to CIGARILLOS​, and a lot of that will go away. I've been tobacco-free for a decade, and cigarillos still tempt me.


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