Dellphinus

Clarification- with a strain gage based power meter?

There's a thread over in the touring group about clipless vs platform pedals (838422-Platform-Pedals-for-touring), and the Rivendell "clipless don't help/ain't no better than platform" argument came up again. One guy in the thread toured with SPD and platforms, and switched after a few states. He mailed the platforms home. My personal experience says that power grips and clipless are better than platforms alone, and clipless are slightly better than power grips, but I can't "prove" it.

It occurred to me that if we had someone with a strain gage based power meter, willing to do some testing for us, we might be able to get some quantifiable evidence to toss into the hearsay.
Ride a fixed route several times over a few weeks with clipless of choice.
Switch to platforms and repeat.
Switch to toe clips and repeat.
Switch to platforms and power grips and repeat.
Switch back to clipless and repeat (to reconfirm baseline).
We'd need to get several runs with each system, say two or three runs a week for a couple of weeks with each, so we're not looking at single events. And a route with a mix of hills, rollers and flats.

I've got a pair of platforms with power grips I'd loan (I'll pay shipping both ways) to the cause...

Any takers?

qcpmsame 

You might post the request in the 50+ Racing and Training sub-forum, Delphinus, they have several regulars there I know use and own power meters. Hope you do get someone to help with the test, I'd be interested in reading the results. Best of Luck.

Bill

Hermes

I suggest you post it in the 33 racing forum. I bet those guys will go for it but make sure they post their results to Strava and the route includes a KOM. They love to test equipment.

Dudelsack 

If someone published a study that smearing yourself with dog poop made you faster, someone in the 33 would try it. They might not necessarily report a negative finding, though.

chasm54

Manifestly, smearing yourself in dog poop does make you faster. Motivation is everything, and being covered in **** encourages one to complete the prescribed course as quickly as possible.

Dudelsack 

Well then, excuse me for a moment...Come here, Fido........

ericm979

BMX racers can do 2000+ watts and high rpms on platforms... or they used to. They have pretty much all switched to mtb pedals now.

I rode a lot with toe clips, before clipless pedals. I would not go back because of the comfort and safety issues. But with proper cleated shoes and tight straps toe clips have you locked in just as well as clipless pedals, so there would be no performance difference. Just comfort.

Hermes

One of the better trolling threads.

Hermes

I threw in a line and hook without any bait and caught a Dudelsack.

lhbernhardt

Is this another of those looney Grant Peterson theories? Sheesh. It's amazing the number of cyclists he's misled, especially with that wacko "set the stem the same height as the saddle" theory. Ah well, there's a sucker born every minute!

Luis

Dellphinus

Not a troll- was actually looking to generate some real evidence to either get Grant to back off, or start using as proof. My own riding says there is definitely a difference, at least on hills. I'm not so sure on flats...

Phil85207

If someone really believes something its very hard to change there mind. Did you ever get someone to change political parties? It is possible but not very often.

ericm979

If you want to do a valid test you'll need multiple riders with different pedalling styles. Some pull up on the upstroke and would not be able to put out as much power with pedals that don't allow that; others do not.

If you don't beleive that some riders pull up, you can look at the rotational power profiles of riders measured in Burke's Science of Cycling (1988). Rebecca Twigg had a nearly perfect 360 degree pedal stroke.

I don't think that any amount data will change some people's minds.

k7baixo

This is a catch-and-release forum you know.....

Hermes

Yea but how do I get him off the hook without touching him?

Hermes

This keeps getting better. If you are not a troll, then you are being trolled by a troll and you took the bait hook, line, sinker, rod, real and his arm. Tell him that Lance tours and rides clipless. That should do it.

FreeFloat

Ok, serious question: At cadences 120 and below, rider aged 50 and above, no previous racing or club experience, for the majority of those that fall into that group....is there an increase in power/efficiency/speed or anything that comes for (almost) free with clipping in?
I've always believed that the only advantage for most is the consistency of correct foot positioning w/ respect to the pedal, and that unweighting rather than up-stroking is what seperates the talented spinners from the rest.
Now as far as stiff shoes (vs non stiff but equally non-compressable soles) transfering more power.........?

Dellphinus

??? I'm not "taking" anything. I'm looking for some real, objective numbers, as opposed to the two camps who are both sure the other is wrong (hint, you and Grant are both campers.)

I'm guessing there's never been a power meter on a bike with platform pedals, so I doubt there's any existing data there. So all we have is the Grant camp saying platforms are just as good, and the clipless camp saying it can't be so, look at my numbers. Until there's numbers from both camps, under similar circumstances, there's no real answer.

Just trying to quantify the arguments; engineer, from Missouri. It's what we do.

End of the troll/argumentative phase...

k7baixo

Channel locks. Big ones.

chasm54

Not to disturb the troll/no troll discussion, but I think you'll find that even Mr Petersen acknowledges the usefulness of clipless for racing. There's really no argument about this, people who race bikes have used systems of foot retention for many, many years.

Dellphinus

Agreed. I'm interested in the rest of us- everyday riders, commuters, fitness, pleasure, tourers.
Sorry- that wasn't clear from the get-go!

FreeFloat

Yeah, me too. I know several non-athletic women in their late 50's that have taken up riding for the first time since they were kids. riding up to 30 miles a few times per week on paved roads in fair weather only, and averaging around 12 mph. They re-hydrate often, and ride SPD or Speedplay or Crank Bros. They clip in because it makes them faster, "especially up hill", and carry two bottles because it is a minimum requirement for riding even 1 hour they've heard.
They're happy, and they ride, so who cares. But I still think they are taking data that applies to harder working riders than themselves and thinking it is making a difference for them.

dbg

I rode a bent for 2 years and definitely noticed a difference when clipping in (campus pedals with platform on one side and spd other). I wasn't looking for a result but independently noticed an increase in speed. (I think if you're looking for a result, you'll create what you're looking for, so I wouldn't ordinarily offer a conclusion based on an opinion on what it "should" do)

FreeFloat

On a 'bent it's a neccesity and the performance inhancement would be obvious as well.