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Old 10-20-12, 05:05 PM   #1
jppe
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Cervelo Update

I'm liking the R3 more and more. I was on it for almost 6 hours today so that was an excellent test.

I replaced the stock saddle with the type I've been using the last 7-8 years and I noticed some increased ride comfort. I like the shifters rotated in a little so I need to adjust those. It might just be me but they feel like they curve outward a little. I like the SRAM Red the more I use it.

Crazy thing happened today on the gears. I was leading a group down a hill and crossed a bridge. The leading joint at the bridge was a little higher than I thought and the tires hit pretty hard. Immediately the gears on the rear cassette were slightly out of adjustment when I started pedaling--noisy--trying to jump to another gear. I stopped and adjusted the thumbwheel and it was better but still not exactly right. I also checked the rear wheel position and skewer but all that appeared okay. What's with that????

The overall setup is a little stiffer than I've been accustomed to. It's nice for climbing as there is excellent energy transfer to the pedals. I'm one of those that tends to run a higher tire pressure but today I dropped it down quite a bit. That helped the ride quality immensely. I think it reduced the "bouncy" feel on rougher roads as well.

Got spend a lot of time working on that dang motor though.....
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Old 10-20-12, 05:49 PM   #2
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I'm running a Rival RD on my single and I've noticed the same thing on hard bumps. And this doesn't seem related to having the RD take up a lot of chain. More of an annoyance than anything else, but is not something you want in a paceline.
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Old 10-20-12, 06:47 PM   #3
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JPPE,
Haven't noticed any half shifts or mis-alignments in the RD of my Rival equipped bike. Several places like you describe on my various route I like to ride, including bridges with the sharp transition lip you are hitting. To me it sounds like the tension spring isn't strong enough and the sharp blow is allowing the chain to jump as the RD slacks off slightly. Would chain wrap make a difference in this situation?

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Old 10-20-12, 07:29 PM   #4
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Have you gone over the bike and made sure everything is torqued to spec? Many shops aren't too great at that.
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Old 10-20-12, 08:44 PM   #5
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I'd have the rear wheel checked for true. If you hit hard enough the impact can throw the wheel out of dish enough to cause shifting issues. Especially if the non-drive side spokes had loosened.
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Old 10-20-12, 09:36 PM   #6
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And another simple check -- was the QR done up tightly? It might be thatthe wheel shifted slightly in the dropouts, and even though they are vertical, the axle ends still have a tiny bit of wriggle room.
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Old 10-20-12, 09:37 PM   #7
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I'd have the rear wheel checked for true. If you hit hard enough the impact can throw the wheel out of dish enough to cause shifting issues. Especially if the non-drive side spokes had loosened.
Ummm... I don't think so. The hub and cassette will remain in the same horizontal and vertical planes irrespective of what the rim will be doing.
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Old 10-21-12, 06:25 AM   #8
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Have you gone over the bike and made sure everything is torqued to spec? Many shops aren't too great at that.
Good idea. The hanger bracket had already loosened when I took it back in to get the Rival RD replaced by the Red RD. I need to check it to see if it's loosened up. That's the only thing I can think of right now but seems plausible.

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JPPE,
Haven't noticed any half shifts or mis-alignments in the RD of my Rival equipped bike. Several places like you describe on my various route I like to ride, including bridges with the sharp transition lip you are hitting. To me it sounds like the tension spring isn't strong enough and the sharp blow is allowing the chain to jump as the RD slacks off slightly. Would chain wrap make a difference in this situation?

Bill
Not sure Bill but worth looking into if it's not the hanger bracket.

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I'd have the rear wheel checked for true. If you hit hard enough the impact can throw the wheel out of dish enough to cause shifting issues. Especially if the non-drive side spokes had loosened.
I spun the wheel and also looked at it while riding and all looked okay but will look more closely.

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And another simple check -- was the QR done up tightly? It might be that the wheel shifted slightly in the dropouts, and even though they are vertical, the axle ends still have a tiny bit of wriggle room.
I had thought of that too and checked the QR and the wheel was where it was supposed to be.

I was really toast the last 15 miles and was in survival mode but as I look back at it now the noise diminshed the more I rode. Or my mind was just pretty numb by that point....
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Old 10-21-12, 06:29 AM   #9
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Hoave you checked with the good folks over in 'Bicycle Mechanics'? They have some amazing folks there...
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Old 10-21-12, 07:14 AM   #10
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The Rival RD on a 2012 S2 does the same after big bumps. I sorta hate the groupset and will replace it with Centaur soon.

The roads around me are crappy chip seal with potholes.
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Old 10-21-12, 08:47 AM   #11
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I haven't noticed my Red derailleur going out of adjustment after a big hit. Could it be that your levers are a bit loose on the bar and moved when you hit the bump? If they slid down or rotated out then they'd tighten up the shift cable.

While I like the feel of a stiff BB when standing on climbs I don't think there's any actual improvement in performance vs a springier frame.

I liked my original 2006 R3 and I like my 2009 R3SL warranty replacement more.
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Old 10-21-12, 05:34 PM   #12
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I haven't noticed my Red derailleur going out of adjustment after a big hit. Could it be that your levers are a bit loose on the bar and moved when you hit the bump? If they slid down or rotated out then they'd tighten up the shift cable.

While I like the feel of a stiff BB when standing on climbs I don't think there's any actual improvement in performance vs a springier frame.

I liked my original 2006 R3 and I like my 2009 R3SL warranty replacement more.
Good idea but the levers have not moved a lick.

You could be correct about the stiffer bottom bracket. What I could be feeling is simply the bike push forward a little more due to the weight reduction.
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Old 10-21-12, 06:11 PM   #13
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And another simple check -- was the QR done up tightly? It might be thatthe wheel shifted slightly in the dropouts, and even though they are vertical, the axle ends still have a tiny bit of wriggle room.

ummm... what's the difference?



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I also checked the rear wheel position and skewer but all that appeared okay.

How old is the cable? I see a post for 10/2 about the new bike. Could just be coincidence that it went out when you hit the bump but many cables will need adjustment after a breakin period from installation date. That is why most LBS's offer a 90 day free tune up on new bikes, to adjust brake and der cables as well as other stuff.

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Old 10-21-12, 06:15 PM   #14
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ummm... what's the difference?
?????
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Old 10-21-12, 06:29 PM   #15
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?????
He said in the OP he checked the wheel position and skewer then later you suggested he check the skewer as the wheel may have shifted slightly in the dropouts, is there a difference bwtween what he posted and your suggestion?
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Old 10-21-12, 06:37 PM   #16
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He said in the OP he checked the wheel position and skewer then later you suggested he check the skewer as the wheel may have shifted slightly in the dropouts, is there a difference bwtween what he posted and your suggestion?
Maybe. But jppe was gracious enough to overlook that in his subsequent post when he confirmed that in fact the QR was tight.
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Old 10-21-12, 11:48 PM   #17
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I haven't noticed my Red derailleur going out of adjustment after a big hit. Could it be that your levers are a bit loose on the bar and moved when you hit the bump? If they slid down or rotated out then they'd tighten up the shift cable.

While I like the feel of a stiff BB when standing on climbs I don't think there's any actual improvement in performance vs a springier frame.

I liked my original 2006 R3 and I like my 2009 R3SL warranty replacement more.
Related idea but just a guess: could it be that a ferrule on the RD shift cable was not completely seated on the cable housing and the bump knocked the housing up into the ferrule causing more slack?
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Old 10-22-12, 05:27 AM   #18
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Related idea but just a guess: could it be that a ferrule on the RD shift cable was not completely seated on the cable housing and the bump knocked the housing up into the ferrule causing more slack?
Sharp idea there Billydonn. JPPE, if you watch film of the cobble spring classics like Paris Roubaix the chains are literally fluttering up and down, especially on the bottom fun, while a bicycle is riding the cobbles. You can see the RD moving to take up and release the slack in the chain. Do you think that the bump you hit could cause the chain to jump a tooth or so as you hit the edge of it? Aside from Billydonn's idea about the ferrule or a weak RD cage of parallelogram spring I can't come up with anything to cause what you described. Must be Dudelsack's zombies attacking the drive set.
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Old 10-22-12, 06:19 AM   #19
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Related idea but just a guess: could it be that a ferrule on the RD shift cable was not completely seated on the cable housing and the bump knocked the housing up into the ferrule causing more slack?
I think that's a pretty good guess, and the most likely scenario. Internal cable routing looks slick, but makes it much harder to fully seat housings and ferrules, unless there is full length housing running through the frame, but I don't think Cervelo uses full length housing.
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Old 10-22-12, 06:42 AM   #20
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I have lower level Sram on two bikes, Rival and Apex and neither has ever moved or shifted no matter how rough the pavement. I will say that I don't count the first ride due to cable stretch and the need to adjust the inline adjusters as I rode a couple of times on that first long ride.
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Old 10-22-12, 05:32 PM   #21
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I happened to be at my LBS today and asked my expert Tech his opinion. His guess was the hanger bracket probably was bent due to the force of the chain slapping. I haven't had the time to take a look at it but that seems to make the most sense from everything I've heard. He is the head mechanic for one of the Pro teams and he said the stock brackets are too soft for his guy's bikes. He always replaced them with stainless steel brackets but certainly didn't recommend me doing that since I'm not sponsored and don't have deep pockets for new frames!! He said that if he left the stock brackets on the frames the bikes they would shift like "crap" in short order.
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Old 10-22-12, 07:29 PM   #22
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I happened to be at my LBS today and asked my expert Tech his opinion. His guess was the hanger bracket probably was bent due to the force of the chain slapping. I haven't had the time to take a look at it but that seems to make the most sense from everything I've heard. He is the head mechanic for one of the Pro teams and he said the stock brackets are too soft for his guy's bikes. He always replaced them with stainless steel brackets but certainly didn't recommend me doing that since I'm not sponsored and don't have deep pockets for new frames!! He said that if he left the stock brackets on the frames the bikes they would shift like "crap" in short order.
It should have only taken the tech about 2 minutes to verify his theory with an alignment gauge. Many stock hangers are as soft as butter. It's the weak link that protects the frame and derailleur in the event of a crash, but some bike makers have difficulty finding the right balance between soft enough to fail to protect the frame, and rigid enough to not go out of whack at the first provocation.
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Old 10-23-12, 02:03 PM   #23
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It should have only taken the tech about 2 minutes to verify his theory with an alignment gauge. Many stock hangers are as soft as butter. It's the weak link that protects the frame and derailleur in the event of a crash, but some bike makers have difficulty finding the right balance between soft enough to fail to protect the frame, and rigid enough to not go out of whack at the first provocation.
Agree. I didn't have the bike with me to have him take a look at it.
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Old 10-23-12, 02:17 PM   #24
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You could be correct about the stiffer bottom bracket. What I could be feeling is simply the bike push forward a little more due to the weight reduction.
I think that what you're interpreting as "excellent energy transfer" is the effect of a brand new chain. If you ever want to improve the performance of your bike, just replace the chain (and cassette, if required). It will suddenly go from feeling sluggish to being highly responsive. This is why you should always replace the chain on your current bike (pumping up the tires doesn't hurt either) before doing a test ride of n+1. You may find that your current bike is not so tired after all.

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