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  1. #1
    Senior Member david58's Avatar
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    Fitness is disposable

    Or maybe it rots. Or whatever.

    Got on my road bike for the first time in six weeks. Only 32 miles, mostly flat, though windy. Kicked my butt, I did.

    My commute is nice - 16-17.5 miles RT, and I have been able to be commuting most days. Hopped on the road bike after getting my new million-spoke wheels, and was very pleasantly surprised at how light and fast the bike feels (compare to my CX bike outfitted for commuting, with Marathons, rack, trunk, lights, etc, etc, etc). First stretch from flats to nice rollers went pretty well, about 18 mph, nice cadence, good HR, etc.

    Then, at about mile 10, the tank pretty well emptied. Headwind, still in the flats, but whipped. Stopped for a rest at mile 20 to talk with friends for an hour or so, hoping the tank would refill a bit. Sheesh - the last 12 miles I CRAWLED home. Even woozy a bit after my shower - a nap fixed that...

    I suppose I needed incentive to ride a bit more - this was a very impolite slap upside the head.
    2011 BMC SR02; 2010 Fuji Cross Comp; n+1 on hold today, due to college tuition and a wedding. Some day, some where, over the rainbow, I will get that 29er....

  2. #2
    Senior Member jmccain's Avatar
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    +1

    But it comes back faster than it took to obtain.

  3. #3
    Senior Member miss kenton's Avatar
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    "It takes six months to get in shape and about two weeks to get back out of shape. Once you realize this, you don't ever have to be angry about anything else again." - Rita Rudner

  4. #4
    Senior Member osco53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss kenton View Post
    "It takes six months to get in shape and about two weeks to get back out of shape. Once you realize this, you don't ever have to be angry about anything else again." - Rita Rudner

    Yup,,It's a Zen thing,

    I looked It up In the human body owners manual, the one that covers It all.

    It's right under Murphy's Law, same page. XD
    Scott Aspect 940 29er, Tour Easy LE, Sun EZ-3 sx, Walmart Thruster :P

  5. #5
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    I have always believed in bio-rythems. Some days (and weeks) you got it -- and some it gets you...
    ... I haven't heard much about bio-rythems for 20+ years -- but that doesn't mean they don't exist...

    Plus, Friday I did my first ride in about 5 days and followed that with chasing an over-active 6 year old for a couple hours...
    ... Saturday I did the same route I did on Friday and really struggled.

    I think there are a LOT of factors that go into it.
    ... Try it again and see how you do: maybe it is conditioning -- or maybe not.

    BTW: I have a hybrid loaded down with fenders, racks, trunks, headlight, etc,,, and it feels like double the work of my Road/CX bike...
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  6. #6
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    I'm moderate with my cycling goals. Most months I'll ride two or three times a week for about 6 hours total. I'll keep a moderate pace for the first hour of each ride and step it up for the second hour.

    A new bike provides a little extra motivation, but real improvements in pace take time.
    2014 Trek DS.1: "Viaggiatore" A do-it-all bike that is waiting in Italy
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  7. #7
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    Then, at about mile 10, the tank pretty well emptied. Headwind, still in the flats, but whipped. Stopped for a rest at mile 20 to talk with friends for an hour or so, hoping the tank would refill a bit. Sheesh - the last 12 miles I CRAWLED home. Even woozy a bit after my shower - a nap fixed that...
    This sounds a lot more like a lack of nutrition than a lack of fitness. Your commute should've kept your fitness at a level where this ride shouldn't have been a problem. Did you drink during the ride? If so, how much? Did you eat a snack during your break? This kind of stuff is more important than many folks realize.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  8. #8
    Senior Member david58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    This sounds a lot more like a lack of nutrition than a lack of fitness. Your commute should've kept your fitness at a level where this ride shouldn't have been a problem. Did you drink during the ride? If so, how much? Did you eat a snack during your break? This kind of stuff is more important than many folks realize.
    I think mile 10, or about 45 minutes, probably wasn't due to nutrition - I normally only have refueling issues after a couple of hours, and an hour or less isn't enough exercise to deplete the tank, nutritionally speaking. My belief is that my fat tail is outta shape, and that I am fooling myself to think that my commute keeps me spiffed up for harder rides. I just was surprised at how fast it goes away...
    2011 BMC SR02; 2010 Fuji Cross Comp; n+1 on hold today, due to college tuition and a wedding. Some day, some where, over the rainbow, I will get that 29er....

  9. #9
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    This sounds a lot more like a lack of nutrition than a lack of fitness. Your commute should've kept your fitness at a level where this ride shouldn't have been a problem. Did you drink during the ride? If so, how much? Did you eat a snack during your break? This kind of stuff is more important than many folks realize.
    +1
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  10. #10
    Captain Big Ring tractorlegs's Avatar
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    I agree with revchuck that it's probably a single ride issue rather than an overall fitness issue. Maybe diet, maybe overtraining, maybe even something as simple as tyre pressures too low. But it just sounds like a hard ride, not an indicator of fitness.
    **************************************************
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  11. #11
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Clearly not nutrition for that distance - it's not nearly long enough to deplete your glycogen stores. The issue is likely the duration of your commutes: they just aren't long enough to develop your endurance, so when you do a longer ride, your aerobic system and muscles give out at a point a bit longer than what you have been doing. You need longer rides to develop the endurance you need for longer rides. I faced with a similar situation. I commuted 8 miles each way for a year, but I didn't drop any appreciable amount of weight, nor did I develop what it takes to do longer group rides. I found an alternate long route to work, and also upped the intensity of those commutes. That helped me get to where I could handle the long distances better, to where I could use those long weekend rides to really improve my conditioning. You need long rides to develop/maintain the fitness required do do them.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  12. #12
    Senior Member Worknomore's Avatar
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    I just try to do something physical each day and not worry about it. Somedays it is a great workout, somedays I only stretch. I don't compare today to yesterday. BTW, I'm 58 and in the best shape of my life.
    Litespeed Blue Ridge, Serotta Colorado CRL, Cannondale Delta-V, Bacchetta Ti-Aero

  13. #13
    Senior Member missjean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss kenton View Post
    "It takes six months to get in shape and about two weeks to get back out of shape. Once you realize this, you don't ever have to be angry about anything else again." - Rita Rudner
    Rita Rudner is awesome. For my 50th b-day a friend gave me Rita's book, "I Still Have It...I Just Can't Remember Where I Put It: Confessions of a Fiftysomething" I made me laugh out loud.

    And, she is dead on! I tweaked my right knee something fierce 2 weeks ago on a mtb ride and haven't ridden (or even walked much the first week!) since then. I am dreading getting back on the bike 'cause I know I will be soooo out of shape.
    "I bet German has a word for it. German has a word for everything."

  14. #14
    Senior Member osco53's Avatar
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    ABSOLUTE proof Bio-Rythem Is a real factor !

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    I have always believed in bio-rythems. Some days (and weeks) you got it -- and some it gets you...
    ... I haven't heard much about bio-rythems for 20+ years -- but that doesn't mean they don't exist...
    Want to actually feel your Bio-Rythem collapse ?

    Go to a convinence store,,,buy a pack of cigarettes,,any kind,,,Go On, this Is for real.

    Now go buy a nice fresh apple,,,

    Now go find a friend you trust to be truthful, set the cigarettes down several feet away from you,,,,,

    Wrap your paw on your weakest arm around that apple and hold it right next to your heart.....
    Extend your strong arm straight out to your side, plam level with your shoulder,,make a fist and
    with all your might resist when your friend puts is hand on your extended wrist and pesses down,to the point of failure and
    your hand/ arm drops...

    Note the amount of power Involved,,,

    Swap the apple for the pack of cigs and repeat the test,,,,

    It should take about 10% of the force needed with the apple to push your arm down now with the smokes held to your heart..

    Go On,,I dare ya....


    Don't give those smokes to anyone,,Its bad karma, Your Bio-rythem will be weak for the day,,throw them away...

    And to correct the damage from holding the cigarettes so close to your heart,,eat the apple, for your hearts sake.
    It will forgive you,,this once.

    Here Endeth The Lesson.


    This Is a life changing experience,,If you are too cheap to buy the $5 pack of cigarettes thats ok,,
    Wisdom often comes at a price,,you can go on with your life unaware of these powers we all live with,,most never know..
    Last edited by osco53; 11-04-12 at 02:54 PM.
    Scott Aspect 940 29er, Tour Easy LE, Sun EZ-3 sx, Walmart Thruster :P

  15. #15
    Senior Member JimF22003's Avatar
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    I week ago Saturday I did a 109 mile ride, and felt pretty good afterwards. I couldn't ride for a full week because of the hurricane and work stuff. On this Saturday I did a 67 mile ride that went up past Camp David in MD. Except for the bit of climbing around the Catoctins, it should have been a much easier ride, but I was really hurting that night and the next day. I didn't really lose "fitness" in just one week, but I definitely was feeling it in the muscles. Here's the ride info:

    http://connect.garmin.com/dashboard?cid=15929908
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  16. #16
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Clearly not nutrition for that distance - it's not nearly long enough to deplete your glycogen stores. The issue is likely the duration of your commutes: they just aren't long enough to develop your endurance, so when you do a longer ride, your aerobic system and muscles give out at a point a bit longer than what you have been doing. You need longer rides to develop the endurance you need for longer rides. I faced with a similar situation. I commuted 8 miles each way for a year, but I didn't drop any appreciable amount of weight, nor did I develop what it takes to do longer group rides. I found an alternate long route to work, and also upped the intensity of those commutes. That helped me get to where I could handle the long distances better, to where I could use those long weekend rides to really improve my conditioning. You need long rides to develop/maintain the fitness required do do them.
    As for (possible lack of ) nutrition not being a problem: I'm not sure that is all that clear: It depends on what state he started in (both in terms of nutrition as well as fitness) as well as how hard he was working...

    If I go out without eating beforehand I start to feel the effects after 10 or 12 miles. I can't say that I am bonked -- but I do start to slow down.

    I think the real, clear, defintive answer is: "Well, maybe..... Or maybe it was low tire pressure, or maybe it was a rear brake not fully releasing or maybe it was chain problem or maybe it was..."
    Last edited by GeorgeBMac; 11-05-12 at 05:57 AM.
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  17. #17
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    If I go out without eating beforehand I start to feel the effects after 10 or 12 miles. I can't say that I am bonked -- but I do start to slow down.

    I think the real, clear, defintive answer is: "Well, maybe..... Or maybe it was low tire pressure, or maybe it was a rear brake not fully releasing or maybe it was chain problem or maybe it was..."
    Probably not nutrition related for you, either. There are a lot of 'carb calories' stored up in your muscles, not to mention fat to burn at lower intensity. Maybe if you had been up for hours, burning calories without eating, it could be an issue on a short ride. Otherwise - not so much.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  18. #18
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimF22003 View Post
    I week ago Saturday I did a 109 mile ride, and felt pretty good afterwards. I couldn't ride for a full week because of the hurricane and work stuff. On this Saturday I did a 67 mile ride that went up past Camp David in MD. Except for the bit of climbing around the Catoctins, it should have been a much easier ride, but I was really hurting that night and the next day. I didn't really lose "fitness" in just one week, but I definitely was feeling it in the muscles. Here's the ride info:

    http://connect.garmin.com/dashboard?cid=15929908
    Nice ride. I love ridding up near Camp David

  19. #19
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Clearly not nutrition for that distance - it's not nearly long enough to deplete your glycogen stores. ...
    ...assuming normal glycogen stores. If you're dieting and losing weight, your glycogen stores can be well below normal.

  20. #20
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    ...assuming normal glycogen stores. If you're dieting and losing weight, your glycogen stores can be well below normal.
    Even below normal, you aren't going to deplete them with that kind of ride. Fitness uber alles...
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  21. #21
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    I blame everything on the wind. Even on calm days. Especially if you haven't been riding "that" bike much. Every bike uses your body differently and wind wears you out before you realize it.

    For me a week off the bike takes a week to get it back. 58 years old and trying to stay ahead of entropy.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
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    It has been said of concert level musicians that if they miss one day of practice, they can tell the difference. If they miss two days of practice, the audience can tell the difference. I never reached world class performance at anything but in my meager efforts at athletic performance a few days of inactivity made a noticeable difference.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Even below normal, you aren't going to deplete them with that kind of ride. Fitness uber alles...
    There's probably a fair degree of individual variation. I lost quite a bit of weight on a strict diet losing 2 lb/week and found I had to make sure to eat something a few hours ahead of a ride and every 30 minutes into it or I had no energy past about 20-30 minutes.

    Often when first starting a diet people will lose like 4-6 lb in the first week before settling down to 1-2 lbs/wk. Most of that is water weight that was tied up with the glycogen, the first energy stores that get depleted at the start of a diet before the fat starts getting burnt.

  24. #24
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Doing the math using some reasonable estimates, the ride described by the OP (10 miles at ~18mph) would burn, at most, what, ~400 calories? Some of that would be from fat, and some of it from Glycogen. Typical glycogen stores are in the range of 1,500-2,000 calories. One would have to be very depleted to burn through available Glycogen on that sort of ride, and there is no indication from the OP that such is the case. In fact, he confirmed that he didn't believe he ran out of fuel.

    I'm harping on this point primarily because so many people cycle, in part, to lose weight or maintain lower weight. That doesn't work if said person pushes up the caloric intake, thinking it is necessary to fuel his/her rides. It's much more common for cyclists to over-eat (especially when it comes to carbs), thinking they need to, than to under-eat and bonk. Then, of course, we wonder why we don't keep the weight off. Most 'running out of gas' on a ride is from fatigue. Train up the longer distances, and you are able to do them on surprisingly little pre-ride or in-ride fuel.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  25. #25
    Senior Member
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    AZTR - I agree, and was evidently off-base in my guess. The symptoms the OP described sure sound like bonking, though.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

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