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Old 12-11-12, 10:09 AM   #1
dendawg
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Don't trust your iPhone

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...after-rescues/
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Old 12-11-12, 10:44 AM   #2
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Actually, none of the mapping software programs are perfect -- even the dedicated GPS's. All of them will give you bad directions or instruct you to take the wrong way on a one way street. But, having used them a LOT working as a home health nurse in the community, they were invaluable to me. They seldom got me there the quickest way, but they got me there. But, whenever possible, I would have a fall back such as directions from MapQuest.

And, one of the reasons I got an I-Phone was for the maps: I was nervous taking long rides on rails-to-trails going through woods and such. If there was a problem, I would not have been able to call emergency services and tell them where I was. With the IPhone I can pinpoint my location quite well.

And the Strava mapping does quite well. Its mileage is always within 1% of my cycle computer.

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Old 12-11-12, 11:09 AM   #3
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Don't have an iPhone. But I do use various map apps. Don't people look at the maps in the map apps? Do people actually follow the directions instead of looking at the bigger picture?

I treat what I see on the screen as a paper map. Sure take a look at the suggested route. Then study the map for alternates. Usually use google maps, google earth or mapquest from home.
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Old 12-11-12, 01:41 PM   #4
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I get my maps from W.H.Smiths on the High Street. Comes in a handy book form and even if the roads have changed a bit from when it was last printed in 1984- I can look at the map and find out where to go.

Have a basic phone that allows me to make and receive calls and that is all I want. It doesn't need to do any more than that.

Locally we have an industrial estate on a farm. On a busy road and the entrance is highlighted with big signs so you can't miss it. Problem is that the "Old" entrance to the farm was up a dirt track through a wood. Any one following Sat Nav will take the dirt road as that is where they are sent. Including the 40ft artic trailer units that will not get round the corners- or have the headroom for the tree canopy.

I'll stick to my antiquated paper version thankyou.
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Old 12-11-12, 01:46 PM   #5
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FWIW, I'm still cranky enough to just want to talk on a cell phone not use it for a mobile office or a toy so that eliminates any need for a "smart" phone.
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Old 12-11-12, 02:48 PM   #6
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FWIW, I'm still cranky enough to just want to talk on a cell phone not use it for a mobile office or a toy so that eliminates any need for a "smart" phone.
Change is hard
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Old 12-11-12, 02:56 PM   #7
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Don't have an iPhone. But I do use various map apps. Don't people look at the maps in the map apps? Do people actually follow the directions instead of looking at the bigger picture?

I treat what I see on the screen as a paper map. Sure take a look at the suggested route. Then study the map for alternates. Usually use google maps, google earth or mapquest from home.
Problem was Apple Maps actually putting the town in the wrong location on the map.
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Old 12-11-12, 03:24 PM   #8
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I am 180 degrees out from Stapfam. Even in events I go to that have printed maps I will transfer the map into Ridegps or Mapmyride. If I have done the route before it is stored in my phone or my Garmin. Then I gave google maps to see where I am in relation to where I want to be. Plus I can look at a satalite picture to see just what the road or trail really looks like. I have been known to look at the printed map given me at the start of a century or double century but after the first 25 miles or so the ink starts to run fron the sweat in my back jersey packet and by 50 miles it is all but unreadable. To be honest I tend to memorize most rides before I take them and hardly ever have to consult the Phone map to see where to turn. But if I do I can chect everything from Garmin, Ridegps, Mapmyride, Strava and Google. Even my car has a GPS unit I call Nagagator. It all makes for an interesting drive with my wife that has to have a AAA trip tic map and marks out where we are by restruants and interesting road side stands.
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Old 12-11-12, 03:59 PM   #9
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Problem was Apple Maps actually putting the town in the wrong location on the map.
Yeah, that's the rub.

It's only a bit worse then some idiots taking a GPS route thru the mountains of Oregon in the winter, on a dirt then snow covered road and then getting stuck and freezing to death. That's just plain not using common sense.

In this case the folks had no clue that the destination was not where it's supposed to be. Apple seemingly has some huge bloody glaring errors that they, or whomever sold them the map data base, has not checked. I like my iPhone, but would not yet rely on Apple Maps to route me to a place I'm not sure of.
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Old 12-11-12, 06:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
FWIW, I'm still cranky enough to just want to talk on a cell phone
There's an app for that…

On second thought, I'm a bit frightened that I may be crankier than Nightshade. I don't own a cell phone--either smart or dumb.

Last edited by tsl; 12-11-12 at 09:48 PM. Reason: that/than
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Old 12-11-12, 06:09 PM   #11
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Change is hard
And rarely desirable for its own sake.
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Old 12-11-12, 08:46 PM   #12
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Yeah, that's the rub.

It's only a bit worse then some idiots taking a GPS route thru the mountains of Oregon in the winter, on a dirt then snow covered road and then getting stuck and freezing to death. That's just plain not using common sense.

In this case the folks had no clue that the destination was not where it's supposed to be. Apple seemingly has some huge bloody glaring errors that they, or whomever sold them the map data base, has not checked. I like my iPhone, but would not yet rely on Apple Maps to route me to a place I'm not sure of.
Apple switched to their own app from Google at least partly because Google wouldn't allow them to have turn-by-turn directions (which I think it is required if you are using it to get somewhere in a car).

They got the maps from TomTom which I have always liked. They're not perfect but they(usually) do the job. (Once my TomTom GPS had me driving my car through the woods to get to my friend's house)

But a few weeks ago I tried using my IPHone to get to a meeting at a Comfort Inn. It dumped me out in the middle of nowhere and told me I had arrived! I turned on my TomTom GPS and it got me there fine.

I assume Apple is working on it. In the meantime I'll keep using my TomTom GPS. I understand you can download other map apps -- but I haven't bothered.
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Old 12-12-12, 12:32 AM   #13
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Yeah, that's the rub.

It's only a bit worse then some idiots taking a GPS route thru the mountains of Oregon in the winter, on a dirt then snow covered road and then getting stuck and freezing to death. That's just plain not using common sense.

In this case the folks had no clue that the destination was not where it's supposed to be. Apple seemingly has some huge bloody glaring errors that they, or whomever sold them the map data base, has not checked. I like my iPhone, but would not yet rely on Apple Maps to route me to a place I'm not sure of.
Are you referring to the tech guru from Cnet who died around the back of Mt Washington several years ago? That was one bad advertisement for this kind of technology, but it seems everyone tuned out on it.
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Old 12-12-12, 12:35 AM   #14
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Yeah, that's the rub.

It's only a bit worse then some idiots taking a GPS route thru the mountains of Oregon in the winter, on a dirt then snow covered road and then getting stuck and freezing to death. That's just plain not using common sense.

In this case the folks had no clue that the destination was not where it's supposed to be. Apple seemingly has some huge bloody glaring errors that they, or whomever sold them the map data base, has not checked. I like my iPhone, but would not yet rely on Apple Maps to route me to a place I'm not sure of.
Like all good stories, this one gets better (or worse) when more of the details are known. For instance, the Bay Area family who did that passed through a gate that a ranger claimed he had closed and locked just days earlier. It looks like some poacher cut the lock off and left the gate open. Those poor folks didn't realize their mistake until it was too late.
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Old 12-12-12, 01:01 AM   #15
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And rarely desirable for its own sake.
Change or die.
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Old 12-12-12, 01:06 AM   #16
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From the Palm Treo 750 I made the leap to Blackberry, and when I tired of the limitations, went to a Motorola Droid2 2-1/2 yrs. ago.

I finally pulled the pin on the iPhone5 tonight. I'm wary of the maps but have other apps for navigation (Waze, Strava) and am not concerned with the Apple maps errors. I won't use it. Problem: solved.

I'll use the Strava app so I don't have to upload my rides from my Garmin. I want to simplify Internet things; perhaps this will work for me.

If not...well, we'll see.
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Old 12-12-12, 01:08 AM   #17
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Yeah, that's the rub.

It's only a bit worse then some idiots taking a GPS route thru the mountains of Oregon in the winter, on a dirt then snow covered road and then getting stuck and freezing to death. That's just plain not using common sense.

In this case the folks had no clue that the destination was not where it's supposed to be. Apple seemingly has some huge bloody glaring errors that they, or whomever sold them the map data base, has not checked. I like my iPhone, but would not yet rely on Apple Maps to route me to a place I'm not sure of.
Like all good stories, this one gets better (or worse) when more of the details are known. For instance, the Bay Area family who did that passed through a gate that a ranger claimed he had closed and locked just days earlier. It looks like some poacher cut the lock off and left the gate open. Those poor folks didn't realize their mistake until it was too late.
Here is more about this story. The person was James Kim, and his family. James Kim was not an "idiot," but rather just a very gifted tech guy from California. Each year we have people following a map program and getting into trouble. These programs cannot know that snows have closed the roads, for instance. While GPS is a major leap in our technology, there are places in Oregon which do not receive a GPS or a cell phone signal. Anyone going into the outdoors should have some basic grounding in maps and compasses, and take a hard copy map with them that they can use without electricity or batteries. However, in the case of the Kim's being lost in Oregon, apparently they consulted a hard-copy map. Again, roads which show on the map may be closed in the winter. Please note that there is no "common sense" about this unless you know the area. Take care...
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Because of Mr. Kim's background as a technology analyst, observers speculated that the family had used online mapping to find their route.[16] However, Mrs. Kim told state police that they had used a paper road map,[17] an account supported by the Oregon State Police, which reported that the Kims had used an official State of Oregon highway map.[18] Mrs. Kim later recounted that, after they had been stuck for four days and were studying the map for help, both she and Mr. Kim noticed that a box in the corner of the map bore the message: "Not all Roads Advisable, Check Weather Conditions."[19]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim
John

Last edited by John C. Ratliff; 12-12-12 at 01:23 AM. Reason: add the first quote.
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Old 12-12-12, 06:10 AM   #18
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I have an iphone, but have not used the apple maps. Google searched it and found a lot of "don't trust" topics. Smart to not trust the smart phone here. But honestly, my over 50, resistant-to-change crowd, I love my Iphone. I have always been a little forgetful, but this has only gotten worse with time. I use the calender app religiously. I depend on the reminders that it gives me. The notes app keeps vital info at my fingertips and gmail allows me to back that info up, along with storing a butt-load load of various info in specific categories. Texting keeps me in touch with my family (especially my kids) and friends. I could go on and on. But bottom line folks, IMO this gadget can serve you well.
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Old 12-12-12, 06:30 AM   #19
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Mobile phones are great inventions as are all the latest apps that they have. The problems come when people rely on them too much. I believe that, as the pocket calculator reduced the need/ability for mental arithmetic in youngsters, so satnav can make people less aware of basic route finding / map reading.


I remember asking a van driver for directions to a village and he said that he didn't really know where he was as he was following satnav to his destination.


When I was working one of my worst days was when they gave me a mobile phone for work. I regularly used to travel 300 mile round trips to other sites and, up until that time, I used to enjoy the peaceful time to relax and listen to an audio book on the journey without contact with the office. Never again!




P.S. I'm not a Luddite as I worked in computers much of my working life, but sometimes I think we are inventing solutions to problems that we never knew we had, just because we can.
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Old 12-12-12, 06:38 AM   #20
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From the Palm Treo 750 I made the leap to Blackberry, and when I tired of the limitations, went to a Motorola Droid2 2-1/2 yrs. ago.

I finally pulled the pin on the iPhone5 tonight. I'm wary of the maps but have other apps for navigation (Waze, Strava) and am not concerned with the Apple maps errors. I won't use it. Problem: solved.

I'll use the Strava app so I don't have to upload my rides from my Garmin. I want to simplify Internet things; perhaps this will work for me.

If not...well, we'll see.
I too started with Palm devices -- actually had the predecessor to the Treo line: It was a Samsung I-300 and had two processors: One ran the cell phone part and one ran the Palm OS part. It worked well but by today's standards it was limited by screen size, processor speed and memory.

I think you will be pleased with the IPhone 5.

it has worked well for me with Strava: I get Strava going, turn off the screen and it consumes almost no battery during a 3 hours ride -- and it has been pretty accurate (except I'm not sure I buy it's calculation of "elevation").

But what makes the IPhone best for me are not the bells & whistles most people look at. it's the ICloud:
-- Take a picture and it shows up automatically on my Windows computer (and is thus backed up)
-- Plug the phone in to charge it (where I have WiFi) and it automatically backs up the phone to the Apple servers
-- Enter a contact or calendar event on the IPhone and it shows up automatically on my Microsoft Outlook on my Windows computer (and vice-versa).
-- Take a picture and I can have it show up immediately on my friend's IPhone
-- Do a video call with other IPhones (but that has carrier limitations -- AT&T wants more money for that!)

It just makes my life better and simpler...

And, the ear-buds are the best I have seen/heard. They are the only ones I;ve tried that do not give me a head ache.

Congrats on your IPhone 5 venture: I hope you will be as pleased with it as I am.

But
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Old 12-12-12, 06:42 AM   #21
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Having written disaster management software that relies totally on GPS coordinates, I can tell you that it's not the hardware that causes the problems. If the location is off, blame the software for that. A GPS receiver collects data from the satellites and converts it to a binary array that the software has to parse and get the needed information for a specific task. There are several of these binary arrays that the receiver sends to the communications port for the software to parse, each with different bits of data. The problem lies in the layering technique used for the maps and how the binary arrays are parsed by the programmer. It gets pretty technical in how it's actually done, so I won't bore you with the details.

However, when Google Maps was used as the iPhone mapping app, I could hit the Locator and it would pin me at the exact location. At home, it would show my property lines and the pin would be exactly where my house is located. With the Apple Maps, the pin shows my house in the middle of a large sink hole that's in the woods behind my property. It's about 1/8 of a mile off. This tends to be normal when I'm stationary and select Location. But in it's defense, it does seem to be fairly accurate if I am moving and use it as a navigation system. If they can't get the accuracy issue corrected, I really would prefer that they go back to the Google Maps app that was in iOS 5.
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Old 12-12-12, 08:14 AM   #22
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For me it was a long process to simply gather information. Sometimes I picture direction and travel like the pictures in our old High School and College Science classes depicting human evolution. But rather than showing some creature crawling out of the sea to end up walking on wall street like a man I see the evolution of maps.
1. Human exploration of an area and verbal directions given to other humans.
2. trails established and a rough drawn map made with points of interest like water or food or danger pointed out for others to memorize.
3. Printed maps and charts were made and people could take it with them.
4. Paper maps were made with cities, directions, mileage and other information printed on them and folded into one time folds that could never be duplicated.
5. Locations on Maps and Charts could be found with a compass and triangles.
6. Locations on land, Sea or air cold be transfered to a map or chart by Sextant.
7. Loran was developed
8. GPS was developed
9. Gps systems were added for vehicles.
10. GPS was added to the smart Phone
11. They found a way to put a woman in a small device like a Garmin or GPS so she could give you turn by turn directions rather than having her in the seat next to you.
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Old 12-12-12, 10:49 AM   #23
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11. They found a way to put a woman in a small device like a Garmin or GPS so she could give you turn by turn directions rather than having her in the seat next to you.
But she is even fussier when I don't follow directions. I can't explain the level of disgust in her voice when she says, "Recalculating!!!!"
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Old 12-12-12, 03:42 PM   #24
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James Kim was not an "idiot," but rather just a very gifted tech guy from California. Each year we have people following a map program and getting into trouble. These programs cannot know that snows have closed the roads, for instance. While GPS is a major leap in our technology, there are places in Oregon which do not receive a GPS or a cell phone signal. Anyone going into the outdoors should have some basic grounding in maps and compasses, and take a hard copy map with them that they can use without electricity or batteries. However, in the case of the Kim's being lost in Oregon, apparently they consulted a hard-copy map. Again, roads which show on the map may be closed in the winter. Please note that there is no "common sense" about this unless you know the area. Take care...


John
I'll stand corrected as to the idiot portion, but the Kim's really didn't use common sense (even if this is not the incident I'm thinking of). When you drive into a mountainous area that gets snowfall and are on a dirt Forest Service/BLM road (in a Sabaru), common sense tells you not to proceed. From WiKi, which is about as accurate a description as to what happend as any: "After encountering heavy snow at high elevation on Bear Camp Road, they turned, by mistake, onto one of hundreds of unpaved logging roads supervised by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).". Even the very basic Rand McNally atlas states that roads can be closed due to weather and in winter. This has nothing to do with the area, as it can happen in Maine as easily.

There are a couple of incidents on this site that make the point that blindly following a GPS can get you into trouble.

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Lost_Drivers-GPS_01-10.htm




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Old 12-12-12, 03:52 PM   #25
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I find the new smartphones, apps and devices pretty amazing at what they are capable to do. But I believe there is a trend to depend too much on technology in "general" as gospel and sometimes we just don't use common sense. Could really go on and on about this.... Common sense and actually using our own brains is still a good idea

Just a note, I've been a NERD well before the word was even invented but still believe our society is slowly moving to a dependance of 100% to computers and associated technologies; very scary to me. All those science fiction books and movies I read or watched as a young person have either happened or we're getting there; and the news is not always good.

For those who remember HAL 9000 and what happened in that 1968 movie 2001: A space Odyssey...seems like such a long time ago but so relevant today.

We have brains that are still useful and should use them to map out our paths and train for riding bikes...trying to get back on subject here
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