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  1. #1
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Think someone is mad.

    My Son-in-Laws company has two branches. One in Eastbourne and one is Bath. It is a distance of 180 miles apart and one of the managers has the bright idea of doing a ride between the two branches---IN ONE DAY. To me that is the mad part as although I know there are a couple of "Keen" cyclists amongst them-only two of them have ever done a ride of 100 miles amongst the 20 that have shown interest.

    I have suggested a couple of training rides to show the one that is planning the ride that it will not be possible for most of them to do the ride in one day. I know that in theory it should be possible- 180 / 12 mph- and it could be done in daylight but Physically it would finish most of them. My suggestion for the first training ride is just a 30 miler across the marshes so it would be flattish but would sort those that will have to do a lot of training to get fit. Or buy new bikes to be able to average 12mph as I know several of the bikes are "WallyMart" specials. This will show the competence of the "Team" to the one that has suggested the ride and that it is a foolhardy idea. The second ride will be up a few slopes and around 40 miles and will involve around 4,000 ft of climbing and being a circular route will find other things like Headwinds and Traffic.

    I think the idea is not possible unless you are a competent century rider and you have plenty of gumption to be able to keep going when it hurts. There are only 3 or 4 accomplished riders amongst them and even they have said it is not possible.

    So I have made a suggestion in that it be done as a relay. Start very early and have 2 3 or 4 riders at a time. Those riders can be matched to each other on speed and if the strong riders take on the hilly bits leaving those that just want to participate on the easier sections. I reckon that it would still take around 15 hours to complete but by using the relay system- then all would be able to take part in the hair brained scheme that someone has conceived.

    So what are your thoughts? If you are just the average rider- how would you feel about attempting a ride like this? And if you are a double Centurion- do you agree that 180 miles in one day is doomed for failure?

    I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
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    STP is 200 miles and is done in one or two days at rider's preference. That is very popular with a variety of experience, skills and ages.

    Maybe some training rides and have a support vehicle to handle the inevitable problems?
    Last edited by HawkOwl; 01-01-13 at 12:50 PM.
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  3. #3
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    First, stop saying it can't be done. Some will try to do it just to prove you wrong. Because, quite simply, it can be done. People do it all the time. It's called a brevet, or an audax, or a randonnée, or ultra cycling.

    Second, since we're talking a brevet-length course, we need to be talking brevet training. Google on the topic and help them learn what it takes. There's more to it than big brass balls. In a nutshell,

    A brevet should be undertaken only after a course of training to prepare for the ride.

    Training should consist of several shorter rides during the week followed by a longer ride - of an increasing distance - on the weekend. Once a weekend ride of between 120 - 150 kms can be done with comfort, a cyclist is ready to take on the challenge of riding a first brevet. — http://www.randonneursontario.ca/tech/tr200.html
    Big brass balls can probably get any of them through the first 150 km--even on a POS bike. It's the second 150 km and the time constraint that needs the training. Get them to acknowledge that, and you'll gain some headway.
    Last edited by tsl; 01-01-13 at 01:34 PM.
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  4. #4
    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm ... is killing people off on a cycling trip a strategic alternative to laying them off with severence pay???

    OK Seriously -it can be done, but anyone signing up for that would need a physical examination and some previous experience. And it might be a long day - really long. The slowest riders would be setting the pace.

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    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
    ...
    So what are your thoughts? If you are just the average rider- how would you feel about attempting a ride like this? And if you are a double Centurion- do you agree that 180 miles in one day is doomed for failure?

    I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
    Speaking for the "average rider" I wouldn't do it. 180 miles over two days I'd go for it, but all in one day no way without some serious training.

  6. #6
    train safe buelito's Avatar
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    If the ride is in 6 months, with a proper training schedule they can do ti (all of them-- provided they stick to the schedule). Sticking to the schedule is the hard part because work and life get in the way of training However, 2-3 mid week rides and a long ride on the weekend that gradually gets longer and longer will do it. Will they have sag support (nutrition, mechanicals etc) or is it self-supported? 180 miles is a LOOONG way... The biggest problem I see is that you are in the middle of winter, when it is hard to train for anything outdoors unless the weather cooperates in a big way. Since you will be shepherding them around, are you going to do it as well? After all, you will have the training...and you probably have never gone that far in a day yourself

    It is a worthy challenge, and the ones who complete it will have the satisfaction of having done a tough ride.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
    I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
    180 miles in a day can be done, as someone already said it's a 300k brevet. For a 300k brevet you'd be allowed 20 hours to complete it, so it would be a very long day.

    Whether it can sensibly be done by the group of people you're talking about would depend on their current fitness, experience riding a bike, and willingness to train for it.

    The first time I attempted a long ride (150 miles in two days) we covered 83 miles in the first day and by the end of it I wanted to just curl up and die. Those 83 miles took from about 830am until about 8pm, for the second half I had to walk up most of the hills (which did nothing for average speeds), and I honestly didn't think I'd be able to continue. At the time I could cover 30-40 miles in an afternoon and not find it overly arduous but the bigger hills I encountered coupled with doubling my maximum ride length was just too much for me.

    A year later I did the same ride and at the end of the first day (about 75 miles, we stopped in a different place) I honestly felt that I could do the same again if I had to. That year we did 150 miles in two days, then had a day off, then 110 miles back (a more direct route) in one day. A few of us did it on mountain bikes.

    If your people are reasonably fit and willing to train hard it can be done although I'd say it's not something anyone is going to get through with a "h3ll yeah, I'll give it a go" kind of attitude. Part of the problem is going to be fitness, another part is the sheer amount of time you're spending in the saddle I'm hoping to complete a 300k brevet later this year and thinking in terms of how I'm going to get myself in suitable shape for it. My personal best to date is a 200k.
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    The relay idea is a good one. I would go with that.

    You might also throw up the suggestion that is become a challenge relay for a charity. That way, it can get kudos for the company, and do something beneficial to the surrounding communities.

    I know charity challenges are a bit overdone these days, but even so, it might make it more palatable to the participants.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member donheff's Avatar
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    If this was a group of seasoned riders who understood what they were getting into to I wouldn't question it. But your description sounds like a no-nothing manager is proposing something he doesn't have a clue about. Is that correct? If so, advise your son in law to train or decline and then stay the heck out of it. What benefit is there in inserting yourself into some nut-job's management fiasco? Don't you risk causing harm to your son in law's standing at the firm?
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  10. #10
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Is the manager who came up with the idea one of the ones who has done a century?
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  11. #11
    Senior Member koolerb's Avatar
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    Why not just break it up into a two day ride? Maybe even split the team into two groups. One group will do 90 day one, the other 90 day two, and big party for everyone at the finish. On the non-ride day for each group they can be providing rider support. 90 miles is still a way long ride for a casual rider.

  12. #12
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    At first I thought the use of "mad" was for angry. I then realized that "mad" in this case was for crazy or nuts. Yeah, I'm sure some could do 180 in 1 day, and with training for 6 months, many could, but, for most, I think this is a very off-the-wall idea. JMHO.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    I am real glad that don't work at that place -- if this is an example of the planning, foresight and intelligence of their management, they are probably making other errors in judgment as well. And I am also happy to report that I have never worked at a place where a manager would propose something like that -- and especially not where a manager would be pushing people into doing it.

    I would say: if he wants to try it, Fine -- go for it. And, if anybody wants to go with him, then fine, go with him.

    I would offer to drive along behind and pick up the stragglers -- but each person I picked up would have his choice of paying $25 to my favorite charity (the Red Cross) or owe me a lunch -- whatever he chose.
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  14. #14
    Recreational/Utility bjjoondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
    My Son-in-Laws company has two branches. One in Eastbourne and one is Bath. It is a distance of 180 miles apart and one of the managers has the bright idea of doing a ride between the two branches---IN ONE DAY. To me that is the mad part as although I know there are a couple of "Keen" cyclists amongst them-only two of them have ever done a ride of 100 miles amongst the 20 that have shown interest.

    I have suggested a couple of training rides to show the one that is planning the ride that it will not be possible for most of them to do the ride in one day. I know that in theory it should be possible- 180 / 12 mph- and it could be done in daylight but Physically it would finish most of them. My suggestion for the first training ride is just a 30 miler across the marshes so it would be flattish but would sort those that will have to do a lot of training to get fit. Or buy new bikes to be able to average 12mph as I know several of the bikes are "WallyMart" specials. This will show the competence of the "Team" to the one that has suggested the ride and that it is a foolhardy idea. The second ride will be up a few slopes and around 40 miles and will involve around 4,000 ft of climbing and being a circular route will find other things like Headwinds and Traffic.

    I think the idea is not possible unless you are a competent century rider and you have plenty of gumption to be able to keep going when it hurts. There are only 3 or 4 accomplished riders amongst them and even they have said it is not possible.

    So I have made a suggestion in that it be done as a relay. Start very early and have 2 3 or 4 riders at a time. Those riders can be matched to each other on speed and if the strong riders take on the hilly bits leaving those that just want to participate on the easier sections. I reckon that it would still take around 15 hours to complete but by using the relay system- then all would be able to take part in the hair brained scheme that someone has conceived.

    So what are your thoughts? If you are just the average rider- how would you feel about attempting a ride like this? And if you are a double Centurion- do you agree that 180 miles in one day is doomed for failure?

    I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
    I've got 4200 miles in 2012 and there's "NO WAY" I could ride 180 miles in a DAY, Gads the last century ride I did was in 1984, you think some guy riding a Wal-Mart BSO, could do this, I'd say your nuts, jmho!! His description of the majority of the riders makes the idea of a "flat easy, 1/2 centruy" in one day seem like utter nonsense!! I'm sure that most will, BAIL quickly after the 2nd. ride. :O
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  15. #15
    tougher than a boiled owl droy45's Avatar
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    IMHO: That is a very dangerous stunt to try out. I have been riding and commuting all my life and I certainly could not even come close to completing that in one day. I believe it will cause many injuries like saddle sore cysts, strained muscles, over exersion etc. A very well trained professional athlete could do that on professional super light weight road bikes only. The average every day cyclist may be able to do it in 2 days with the proper equipment but certainly no mountain or commuter bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by droy45 View Post
    IMHO: That is a very dangerous stunt to try out. I have been riding and commuting all my life and I certainly could not even come close to completing that in one day. I believe it will cause many injuries like saddle sore cysts, strained muscles, over exersion etc. A very well trained professional athlete could do that on professional super light weight road bikes only. The average every day cyclist may be able to do it in 2 days with the proper equipment but certainly no mountain or commuter bikes.
    I should just point out I have done a best of 290 miles in one 24-hour day, and I am not a professional on a super lightweight road bike. Others here, on this forum, have done 300km rides in the 20-hours alloted maximum time.
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  17. #17
    tougher than a boiled owl droy45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    I should just point out I have done a best of 290 miles in one 24-hour day, and I am not a professional on a super lightweight road bike. Others here, on this forum, have done 300km rides in the 20-hours alloted maximum time.
    Maybe in 24 hours, but you must be in extremely good condition, not me, I'm over the hill and I hurt everywhere even on 30 mile rides. Congratulations for accomplishing that and those days are a distant memory for me.
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  18. #18
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    I dunno. I wouldn't do it myself, so I say go for it.

    Srly, Loovul has a major cancer charity ride each September, and they manage to get very unathletic people to go that far...over two days, and with a few months of training, and an incredible support staff, and free stuff from the Amgen warehouse about three miles from here.

    I was kidding about the last part, although the Amgen warehouse really is that close to my house.

    I'm thinking like an American, but from a liability standpoint you'd be royally hosed if anyone got hurt.

  19. #19
    Council of the Elders billydonn's Avatar
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    +1 for it is an unwise idea, probably very much so
    + 1 for the relay idea


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  20. #20
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
    My Son-in-Laws company has two branches. One in Eastbourne and one is Bath. It is a distance of 180 miles apart and one of the managers has the bright idea of doing a ride between the two branches---IN ONE DAY. To me that is the mad part as although I know there are a couple of "Keen" cyclists amongst them-only two of them have ever done a ride of 100 miles amongst the 20 that have shown interest.

    I have suggested a couple of training rides to show the one that is planning the ride that it will not be possible for most of them to do the ride in one day. I know that in theory it should be possible- 180 / 12 mph- and it could be done in daylight but Physically it would finish most of them. My suggestion for the first training ride is just a 30 miler across the marshes so it would be flattish but would sort those that will have to do a lot of training to get fit. Or buy new bikes to be able to average 12mph as I know several of the bikes are "WallyMart" specials. This will show the competence of the "Team" to the one that has suggested the ride and that it is a foolhardy idea. The second ride will be up a few slopes and around 40 miles and will involve around 4,000 ft of climbing and being a circular route will find other things like Headwinds and Traffic.

    I think the idea is not possible unless you are a competent century rider and you have plenty of gumption to be able to keep going when it hurts. There are only 3 or 4 accomplished riders amongst them and even they have said it is not possible.

    So I have made a suggestion in that it be done as a relay. Start very early and have 2 3 or 4 riders at a time. Those riders can be matched to each other on speed and if the strong riders take on the hilly bits leaving those that just want to participate on the easier sections. I reckon that it would still take around 15 hours to complete but by using the relay system- then all would be able to take part in the hair brained scheme that someone has conceived.

    So what are your thoughts? If you are just the average rider- how would you feel about attempting a ride like this? And if you are a double Centurion- do you agree that 180 miles in one day is doomed for failure?

    I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
    You have your work cut out training 17 or more riders of the 20 to stick with it for 180 miles in a day. Of the 84 in our cycling club we have maybe 15 A riders that could do such a ride in the next few weeks. Toss in some wallyworld Bike Shaped objects and I see failure written all over some of the attempts. That being said a lot of it would depend on the determination of the "Volunteers."

    Now with the negitives out of the way I have some positive suggestions. If the manager is trying to make this a team building effort get the group together and put together some short team rides. Teach them the principals of pace line riding and the advantages of working together. Yes there will be some that will not participate but that is their loss. Once you see who the stronger riders are assign them a number of riders to manage. That way you can concentrate on one group while the other riders are helping their own team. By the time the ride takes place you will have riders helping other riders through the hard parts and more of them may finish than you expect.

    Lastly just remember you can't carry everyone so don't take this so personally. They are adults and theyn will do what they will do. A leader leads a mule skinner drives. Don't be a mule skinner.
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  21. #21
    Erect member since 1953 cccorlew's Avatar
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    I've done a number of double centuries. Even the ones with minimal climbing are serious undertakings. Doing 100 miles back to back on consecutive days is nothing compared to riding 200.
    I really think some serious training/testing rides are in order, otherwise you need to make plans do deal with the folks on the route whose ambitions exceed their abilities.
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    Senior Member dendawg's Avatar
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    I can think of 3 other rides that are long, though not that long. The Montauk Century which if you do the start in NYC is 145 flat miles. The RAIN ride across Indiana, about 167 flat miles and the Harpoon Brewery B2B ride from Boston to Vermont that takes you into the Green Mtns. So something like that is doable with proper training

  23. #23
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    These riders are people that have bikes. They "May" commute to work on a daily basis but only one of them lives more than 10 miles away and that is my Son-in-Law. One of the other riders is a TT rider and is good in the Area championships. His distances range from 20 to 100 miles and he has said he will not do it in one day. For myself--I have done a 24 hour ride on a mountain bike that weighed in at 18lbs and was set up for road. It was many years ago and I got just over 300 miles in. I also used to do a 100 mile Offroad ride so you can add 50% to that distance for a road ride. That was done between 12 and 14 hours and I used to train all year for that one. Nowadays I have to train for 100 miles on the road and I after those rides I have had enough.

    So For the average rider- I do not think it is possible. Even over two days it would be difficult as even as accomplished as I am- My butt for the second day is not.

    But The flat 30 miler will be the first ride in about a months time. That will show who is capable of it and also point out to the manager that for most it will not be feasible. If that doesn't- I will like to see how he manages a hilly Metric that is on locally in March. By hilly I mean hilly. It takes in every slope above 10% locally and it is tough. The slopes may only be 1 mile long but there are plenty of them.

    I feel that a relay is possible and even the TT rider would agree to that. Riders can be grouped by abilities and have two or three riding together- Except the TT rider and he is on his own. I will probably be providing the "Convoy" wagon and I have a couple of mates that can provide transport for the bikes.

    I am hoping that the ride goes ahead but at a level that will not break the riders participating. I reckon I can get the most unfit person up to riding 20 miles in 6 months and hopefully some will take up riding as a sport. But 180 in a day and I reckon we would need more SAG wagons than I have spare bikes- and Have many of them.
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  24. #24
    Grumpy Old Bugga europa's Avatar
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    You Brits. and your eccentrics. This one might be trying a little too hard. Keep us posted, at least there's plenty of scope for entertainment for those of us who don't have to do it.
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    Rocky Mountain Solo, Specialised Sirrus Triple (quick road tourer), Santana Arriva Tandem
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    [QUOTE=stapfam;15107660]only two of them have ever done a ride of 100 miles amongst the 20 that have shown interest.

    QUOTE]

    2 riders have done just half as much. 'Unconscious incompetence' for the remaining.

    I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

    Apart from the physical fatigue, bike handling skills will diminish with mental fatigue - and there might not be too much skill to begin with.

    As soon as you become the trainer, you become the instigator
    Last edited by wobblyoldgeezer; 01-02-13 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Numbers wron in the post I submitted

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