Doug64

Good advice-- thanks, I removed inappropriate remark.

Dudelsack 

Also, the fates have determined this will come up. All political discussions MUST include a mention of the Nazis, and all fitness discussions MUST generate a violent dispute about whether glucose can be derived from fat metabolism. So here ya go: https://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...rom-fatty.html
Whether the author is accurate or not, I make no claims other to recognize that some experiments using radiolabeled markers actually do show that fat metabolism can result in glucose production.

But what do I know. They can have my bottle of raspberry extract when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

BillyD

Indeed.

I've come to find out lots of guys bike to eat instead of the reverse.

Terex

You haven't done any research. You've looked at one book, originally written in by an engineer in 1982 and updated in 2004. Nothing other than compiling stuff he cribbed from other sources, now almost 10 years out of date. No science involved. Google "myths of fat burning" for a start. Then, if you want to take a stab at "research", look at medical data bases listed at https://www.cochrane.org/about-us/evi...aphy/databases You can start with the National Institute of Health's PubMed.

In summary, in general, the more intense the exercise, a lower the per cent of fat may be burned relative to energy from carbs, but absolute amount of fat burn increases as intensity increases.

Doug64

I'm actually pretty familiar with the Cochrane website. I used it quite a bit when I was working, trying to apply systematic evidence review principles to another discipline.

I did a cursory search and did not find any relevant summaries. Could you give me a direct link to the specific review you are talking about?

I never said or implied that I did any research, exercise physiology is way out of my realm of expertise. What I did say is that I read................... and gave the reference for folks to make their own call. I respect your perspective.

icyclist 

Terex wrote: "The more I exercise, at least aerobically, the less I want to eat. When I'm not exercising, I'm starved all the time."

That is, though, counter to the way it works with just about everyone else in the world.

That said, I'm not hungry after a bike ride, or a run, or a long, hard hike. At least I'm not hungry immediately after I stop exercising. Soon enough, though, my hunger matches how much I've exercised.

Bikey Mikey

Calorie restriction will promote weight loss, but you will hit a wall, or rather a slowdown, in weight loss after a while. The body will slow down the metabolism to compensate for the reduction in calories(starvation mode). You overcome this slowdown with exercise. Exercise, besides making you healthier, and calorie/portion control is the best way to loose weight or maintain a healthy weight. Additionally, if you exercise regularly, you actually burn more calories just sitting than someone sedentary simply at rest. But, even if you have met your goal or are lean, one should exercise to be healthier.

gif4445

I was lost in SC Nebraska, looking for the main highway and stopped at a local Git n Go. Asked the attendant how I could get to 183. He told me diet and exercise. Ok, not so funny. But really, it takes both for us simple people. For us numbers type people, a good tool is the smartphone app MyFitnessPal, or its equivalent. I established a weight loss goal and max net calorie intake level and input my food and exercise. It has helped me lose the last 20 lbs and hopefully will get me to 183. I know it's not for everyone, but it does eliminate some guess work, while also tracking other important nutritional intakes. I would strongly recommend it.

stapfam

When I first started riding- we used to do 30 to 40 miles and always stopped for breakfast. I was new to cycling and unfit and the others had been riding for quite a while. That breakfast-While everyone else was having the Full Monty--I had a piece of fruit cake and I struggled with that. I knew I had cycling fitness when I could eat a full breakfast and still had a couple of cereal bars on the way home.

Now I have to have my porridge before a long ride and breakfast has to come in there somewhere on the ride. Either that or my pockets are stuffed with dried fruit- Cereal bars- Packet of Fig Newtons and on the longer rides- something more substantial for the 65 to 70 mile break. And then after the rides- or at least the hard ones- it has to be KFC or Fish and chips--Something nice and greasy as that is what I crave.

jmccain

Where did I write anything about starving?

dbg

Ditto on the "exercise makes me eat better." I also notice that beginning a new exercise regimen (like when I used to start training for the spring marathon) I would initially gain weight (from muscle mass increase).

And burning off that last little bit of spare tire was extremely hard to do. Unless I cranked the mileage way up or severely restricted carbs (not good during training), I had trouble getting to that super lean, emaciated, sickly look.

MinnMan

Perhaps it's not true for many or most, but as my post above expressed, I eat larger meals but fewer nasty snacks when I'm exercising a lot. If you sum my daily calories, I think they go up when I'm off the bike. So Terex isn't alone.

Steve Sawyer

As others have said, I think you're right on the money re the relationship between diet and weight, but the value of exercise, particularly for us oldsters is a) keeps the metabolism working at a higher rate so you burn more calories even when you're NOT exercising, and b) helps to counteract the loss of muscle tone and muscle mass that's just part of aging.

What I've found works well for me when I can't be on my bike is to join a class. I work harder, burn more calories, and do so more consistently when I've signed up and paid for an instructor-led class. 8-week classes (1 per week) at our local rec center only run about $40, so it's not expensive. I take three classes every 8-week session during the cold months, and I change things up a bit each session though I always have a spinning class in the mix just to keep my bum and pedaling muscles ready to hit the road when it gets warm again.

Terex

See : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...sts-claim.html

And: https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0...etite-workout/

When I'm very fit, and eating very healthy, I just don't get very hungry. Right now I could go for some Ruffles Ridges with french onion sour cream dip.

GeorgeBMac

Thanks! That is pretty much what I have experienced -- but I always thought I must be nuts.

Actually when I get home from a ride I do tend to eat. But mainly it's because I think SHOULD feel hungry rather than because I actually am hungry...

Thanks for sharing those articles -- and your personal experience...

Terex

Sorry! Overstated a bit. See https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...ng-zone_134214

Too tired to look for base studies. Fat burning MAY drop off as intensity increases during exercise, but you have to look at overall metabolic effects, including post exercise.

In addition, maximal fat oxidation during exerciseis highly variable on an individual basis ("...lies between 60.2% and 80.0% of the maximal heart rate.". https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19855335

And, just found a ref to the questionable nature of the original study identifying those maximal fat oxidation zones, or Fatmax :

Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Apr;32(2):249-56.
Determination of "Fatmax"with 1 h cycling protocols of constant load.
Meyer T, Gässler N, Kindermann W.

Institute of Sports Medicine, University of Paderborn, Paderborn, Germany. tim.meyer@uni-paderborn..de

Several earlier studies were aimed at determining an exercise intensity that elicits maximal fat oxidation (Fatmax). However, these studies employed few different intensities or used exercise periods of too short a duration. All investigators described intensity with reference to maximal ergometric values, which might lead to metabolically inhomogeneous workloads between individuals. The aim of this study was to determine Fatmax by overcoming these methodological shortcomings of earlier investigations. Ten healthy recreational athletes (29 +/- 5 y; 75 +/- 6 kg; 1.81 +/- 0.04 m) conducted an initial incremental cycling test to determine VO2 peak (59.2 +/- 6.1 mL.min-1.kg-1) and individual anaerobic threshold (IAT; 221 +/- 476 W). Within 4 weeks, 5 constant-load tests of 1 h duration were carried out at 55%, 65%, 75%, 85%, and 95% IAT. During all tests indirect calorimetry (MetaMax I, Cortex, Leipzig, Germany) served to quantify fat oxidation. Capillary blood sampling for lactate measurements was conducted every 15 min. All subjects remained in a lactate steady state during the constant load tests, which minimized influences from excess CO2. There was no difference between the 5 intensities for the percentage of energy from fat metabolism (p = 0.12). Additionally, the intensities led to similar absolute amounts of oxidized fat (p = 0.34). However, there was a significant increase in fat metabolism with increasing exercise duration (p = 0.04). It is impossible to define one theoretical optimal intensity for fat oxidation that is true in all individuals. It is thus mandatory to perform an individual assessment with indirect calorimetry. Intra-individual day-to-day variation might render the use of several tests of long duration less applicable than incremental testing with stages of sufficient duration. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)

Gerryattrick

Does that mean it's OK to have pie after a ride or not?

GeorgeBMac

+1

Terex

In the 50+ category it's always OK to have pie. If I find the study, I'll post.

Bob Nichols

Just got back from the gym. I not really going to quit.

Jimbo47

Good for you! Unless you are going to do harm to yourself then why quit?

Blanchje

It is nearly mandatory.

Blanchje

This is a very important point. Cycling is great in so many ways but you need to work your other muscles as well.

Maxpilot

Absolutely! I had a hard time losing weight until I started counting calories with Myfitnesspal. Exercise caused me to want to over-eat. What calories I was burning I was eating back. By keeping track of what I was eating I realized that I was eating too much. I lost 20lbs in 3 months.

Bob Nichols

I guess one problem is that I didn't start back riding my bike just for the exercise or to lose weight, although they are good benefits. I just love riding my bike and can't quit.