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Thread: Toe out problem

  1. #1
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Toe out problem

    I've been riding old style road pedals and toestraps with a severe toe out problem from the start. It's so severe I had to mill the slot longer on my right side cleat just to get the angle right. On my old pairs of Avocet touring shoes I had to grind a ridge out of each side as well. Of course they don't make those shoes anymore and I like the ridges for climbing.

    Now that I've worn those out I'm trying to use these "Performance" touring shoes that I bought in the late 1990's but they are a little wide for old style road pedals. So I find my right knee hurting from not being able to turn my big foot out quite enough.

    So I'm wondering some of you bike store guys know of a modern fix for this with the newer pedals and shoes. Keep in mind that I already scrape my heel along my right crankarm enough to wear the coating off (and then some) so I need a cleat that can be moved inside on the shoe as well as turned at an angle.

    Any of you bike shop guys come across customers with this problem ?
    Last edited by Zinger; 03-15-13 at 08:57 PM.

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    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    You might try these to get your foot far enough from the crank arm. http://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Pedal-.../dp/B000QDGJVU
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    If you are requesting suggestions for a dedicated shoe/pedal set up that will accommodate your severe toe out position the only thing I can think of are the Speedplay Light Action pedals that should work with any 3 hole road shoe. Cleats can be move inward about 10 mm and they also pivot have 15 degrees of rotation to account for toe in/out.
    There is a good chance any "clipless" system will not work, but only one way to find out.
    Right now is a good time to go to a shop and ask them to set your bike up on a trainer, mount the pedals, select shoes and mount the cleats so you can feel them. If they are a go, DON'T STIFF THE SHOP AND BUY ON LINE. Buy them from the store that just served you.

    Please, do not go into a shop in April and ask them to spend an hour with you for this service, they are very busy with the beginning of the season, and you may not buy the set up. Best done before the end of March.

    Other than that, pedal extenders are the option.

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    A serious as your toe out is I would find a professional fitting shop that is well trained and understands physiology and corrective devices and let them see what your exact degree of toe out is and then recommend the things that will painlessly help you out.

    Bill

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    I have the same problem. Use SPD cleats adjusted as much as possible and use 2 pedal extenders on right and 1 on left. This manages to keep my size 16 crooked foot from hitting crank and chainstay. I thought about attaching cleat mid foot but already risk interference with front wheel.

    If you have a normal size foot mid-foot cleat placement might be a solution for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
    A serious as your toe out is I would find a professional fitting shop that is well trained and understands physiology and corrective devices and let them see what your exact degree of toe out is and then recommend the things that will painlessly help you out.

    Bill
    I will agree that a trip to your LBS with the bike to show them the problem will help.
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    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
    You might try these to get your foot far enough from the crank arm. http://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Pedal-.../dp/B000QDGJVU
    Oh Yeah !

    That's what will get me by at least until I can find the best modern fix.....My knees say thanks!

  8. #8
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
    If you are requesting suggestions for a dedicated shoe/pedal set up that will accommodate your severe toe out position the only thing I can think of are the Speedplay Light Action pedals that should work with any 3 hole road shoe. Cleats can be move inward about 10 mm and they also pivot have 15 degrees of rotation to account for toe in/out.
    There is a good chance any "clipless" system will not work, but only one way to find out.
    Right now is a good time to go to a shop and ask them to set your bike up on a trainer, mount the pedals, select shoes and mount the cleats so you can feel them. If they are a go, DON'T STIFF THE SHOP AND BUY ON LINE. Buy them from the store that just served you.

    Please, do not go into a shop in April and ask them to spend an hour with you for this service, they are very busy with the beginning of the season, and you may not buy the set up. Best done before the end of March.

    Other than that, pedal extenders are the option.
    OK

    That sounds like the long term option to try and I'll use the extensions until I can get in there.
    Thanks to you guys for the helpful info.

  9. #9
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Well since my right side is a little over 15 deg. and the extension (only need it on the right side) seems just a little further out than I'm comfortable with, here's my fix:

    I ordered some of these: http://www.dromarti.com/index.php?ma...index&cPath=10

    black-race_MED.jpg

    And some of these: http://www.yellowjersey.org/tocleat.html

    CLEAT86.jpg

    I guess I'm just incurably old school. Now I'll probably hafta pay a fee to the bike shop to get one of those fittings with the antenna thingees out the side since I'm not going to buy their shoes but I'm willing to pay for their time since I want to get the angles just right before I even start riding on them.

    Since I work 2nd shift, I'll try and hit them up early morning on a weekday.
    Last edited by Zinger; 04-05-13 at 07:02 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Bebops have a 15 degree rotation to unclip. Combined with rotating the cleat and adding kneesavers, you might be covered.

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    I had exactly this issue with my right foot (left foot was fine). I bought some Speedplay frogs and used an exacto knife on my shoe to make things work a little better. But truthfully, I never really fixed the problem until I went to a Physical Therapist -- not because of the biking, but because I injured myself running -- and he gave me set of exercises that pretty much straightened out my foot. Turns out that after I broke my ankle some 15 years ago, my muscles weren't quite working right. Physical Therapists can sometimes do amazing things.

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    I just want to mention another approach that might help with your problem. On the pedal upstroke try to pull your knees toward your chin. When you pull your knees toward the center of your body your heels will tend to move away from the cranks. This only takes a minute to try and if it doesn't work well it didn't cost much.

  13. #13
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Lots of good ideas in here for modern cleats guys. I hope this is a good thread for other people with toe out problems. I could probably mill out the slots on those Bebops so they'd work and the Speedplay setup might also work as well. I'll try drawing my knees inside on that upstroke until I revert back to whatever I do now, lol.

    I've spent about the same or maybe less to keep with the old toeclip setup and I know that works. I can't remember where I've put my ancient Diadoras or if I've even thrown them out or given them away. So, for myself, I've already ordered the Dromartis and the "Look" compatible retro pedal slot cleats as pictured above so I'll try that first.....Now I'll really be "riding in a time warp", lol.

    Thanks for all the info.

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    So I find my right knee hurting from not being able to turn my big foot out quite enough.

    I find this interesting as I toe out on the right and lately have been having bad pain on the inside of the right knee. I'm just riding on platform pedals, so I can put my feet where I choose, but lately I have (at times) been trying to keep my right foot straight. (I'm in my second year of riding and am still feeling a lot of things out.)

    When my knee pain started, I didn't know if it was from toeing out or from trying to stop toeing out. (It is something I've always done walking or running as well.) I'm thinking from what I read here that I'm likely better off letting my foot rest where it naturally wishes to be.

  15. #15
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
    So I find my right knee hurting from not being able to turn my big foot out quite enough.

    I find this interesting as I toe out on the right and lately have been having bad pain on the inside of the right knee. I'm just riding on platform pedals, so I can put my feet where I choose, but lately I have (at times) been trying to keep my right foot straight. (I'm in my second year of riding and am still feeling a lot of things out.)

    When my knee pain started, I didn't know if it was from toeing out or from trying to stop toeing out. (It is something I've always done walking or running as well.) I'm thinking from what I read here that I'm likely better off letting my foot rest where it naturally wishes to be.
    Exactly!

    When I first bought my Diadoras about 30 or so years ago I had the cleats on straight and 60 plus mile rides would just grind my knees raw. So I was talking to a freind who owned a bike shop and he had something called a "Fit Kit" that would attach to your shoes and let you adjust your cleats to your natural crooked posture, lol.....problem solved and I wound up buying a Trek 970 frame from the guy.

    How you walk is probably about how you ride and I've had a touring bike guy guess what my toeout problem was just from watching me walk one day. In my case my right foot turns out a little more than my left and I guess that's why my High school buddies used to say I walked sideways when I got drunk, lol.

    My posture actually twists a collet style stem out of place before I'm two blocks away from the house. I have to use a wedge tightening stem.
    Last edited by Zinger; 04-06-13 at 12:15 AM.

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