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-   -   Holy Bonk Batman (http://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus-50/910797-holy-bonk-batman.html)

Planemaker 09-02-13 03:28 PM

Holy Bonk Batman
 
I finished my 600 miles up for August on 8/29 so, I took 2 days off to recover since I had ridden quiet hard over the last week. Yesterday I went out for a 35 mile ride and felt really strong, in fact I had my personal best in average speed. Today I went out for a planned 50 mile ad it was all I could do to finish. I actually don't think I could have gone another mile and it took me about 3 hours to recover.

The only difference between this 50 and my other 50's is that I did not put Hammer Fizz tablets in my water bottles (I am out). I did take 3 Endurolyte tablets before I left (I usually take 3 on a long ride).

Can the lack of electrolyte replacement during the ride account for this?

freedomrider1 09-02-13 06:39 PM

Could be coming down with a cold. That could knock you for a loop for a few days. Not sure you would notice the lack of Hammer supplements in 50 mile ride, and bonking that hard.

Mycoalson 09-02-13 06:53 PM

I'm not sure what the tablets are, and I generally ride, at this point 40-50 miles a shot. I'm not trying to be a fool about it. But, lately I seem to be hearing a lot of "bonk"stories, that seem very unlikely to be actual, "bonk" stories.

I'm not suggesting you would ever lie about your experience, or that you have some bizarre alternative purpose for suggesting that a big, "bonk" is around the corner, out of the blue for an otherwise well conditioned athlete and we should all be really wary, dial back our rides, because we don't want this to happen....

But, I'd go with an illness or some other issue other than a lack of a nutritional supplement. Frankly, personally, one of the things I tend to really buy, I mean big, big, big time...

and it happens to everyone.


If at some level you can be convinced your going to lose, you're not going to make it, you're going to have major issues...you will.

Dumbo couldn't fly without his feather...once the feather was gone he almost died.

If you believe the only thing keeping you sober is your magic, higher power pet rock...and you lose it...you get drunk.

If you can only pitch, when you are wearing your lucky jock....and you lose it...you're going to get shelled by every guy on the other team.


Of course you can either get over magical thinking entirely....or you can find a better supplement, a bigger pet rock...or better higher power...

buy a new jock...



anyway...I digress.

I'm sure the supplements are helpful. You could actually have had something wrong. I am not a doctor or a sports psychologist. I do in fact advocate faith.

But, believe the power of the human mind is pretty amazing.

Dudelsack 09-02-13 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planemaker (Post 16023687)
I finished my 600 miles up for August on 8/29 so, I took 2 days off to recover since I had ridden quiet hard over the last week. Yesterday I went out for a 35 mile ride and felt really strong, in fact I had my personal best in average speed. Today I went out for a planned 50 mile ad it was all I could do to finish. I actually don't think I could have gone another mile and it took me about 3 hours to recover.

The only difference between this 50 and my other 50's is that I did not put Hammer Fizz tablets in my water bottles (I am out). I did take 3 Endurolyte tablets before I left (I usually take 3 on a long ride).

Can the lack of electrolyte replacement during the ride account for this?

Doubt it.

Sounds like inadequate recovery time for the stress load you were putting on your body.

Anyway, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

Mycoalson 09-02-13 07:03 PM

P.S. My sincerest apologies, I don't mean to make light of a serious concern. Personally, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm a little tired of hearing about "miracle cures," "faith healing," and 12 step programs which seem to be more than a bit responsible, for arguing the whole concept.

"We have a disease,"


Which it turns out, they believe, is the only disease cured by God.

Not cancer, not diabetes...and although the claim is their disease is about a lack of sanity...not bipolars, schizophrenics, not those with childhood onset leukemia...

But, if you get drunk, high, or gamble too much...God will cure you and you become one of the chosen people.

It certainly couldn't be that your "disease" was all in your mind and your faith...which is all in your mind...made you better...

you got better because you believed you could.

Of course, amongst 12 steppers....believing a person did it, not a higher power, is tantamount to treason, blasphemy and pedophilia.

Dudelsack 09-02-13 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycoalson (Post 16024414)
P.S. My sincerest apologies, I don't mean to make light of a serious concern. Personally, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm a little tired of hearing about "miracle cures," "faith healing," and 12 step programs which seem to be more than a bit responsible, for arguing the whole concept.

"We have a disease,"


Which it turns out, they believe, is the only disease cured by God.

Not cancer, not diabetes...and although the claim is their disease is about a lack of sanity...not bipolars, schizophrenics, not those with childhood onset leukemia...

But, if you get drunk, high, or gamble too much...God will cure you and you become one of the chosen people.

It certainly couldn't be that your "disease" was all in your mind and your faith...which is all in your mind...made you better...

you got better because you believed you could.

Of course, amongst 12 steppers....believing a person did it, not a higher power, is tantamount to treason, blasphemy and pedophilia.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...4/Chillout.jpg

Dudelsack 09-02-13 07:13 PM

Anyway, I hope the mods leave this thread alone. Going through the six degrees of separation between electrolyte tablets and faith in God should get really, really interesting.

Planemaker 09-02-13 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycoalson (Post 16024414)
P.S. My sincerest apologies, I don't mean to make light of a serious concern. Personally, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm a little tired of hearing about "miracle cures," "faith healing," and 12 step programs which seem to be more than a bit responsible, for arguing the whole concept.

"We have a disease,"


Which it turns out, they believe, is the only disease cured by God.

Not cancer, not diabetes...and although the claim is their disease is about a lack of sanity...not bipolars, schizophrenics, not those with childhood onset leukemia...

But, if you get drunk, high, or gamble too much...God will cure you and you become one of the chosen people.

It certainly couldn't be that your "disease" was all in your mind and your faith...which is all in your mind...made you better...

you got better because you believed you could.

Of course, amongst 12 steppers....believing a person did it, not a higher power, is tantamount to treason, blasphemy and pedophilia.

No offense taken.

Several riders on this forum have use Endurolytes and the Endurolyte Fizz tablets as an effective local way to replace lost electrolytes during a longer ride. I am sure that others on the forum will chime in as to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the product.

Planemaker 09-02-13 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudelsack (Post 16024451)
Anyway, I hope the mods leave this thread alone. Going through the six degrees of separation between electrolyte tablets and faith in God should get really, really interesting.

lol - Hopefully, this thread won't go as badly as when I started a chain lube thread.

Seriously though I would like some feedback on the Hammer and Nunn products because I am trying to lose weight and just consuming sugary drinks for a ride seems a bit counterproductive to me. That being said if those drinks are the best effective way to replace electrolytes then I am in.

TromboneAl 09-02-13 07:24 PM

I'm often amazed at the difference in how I feel from one ride to another despite no clear differences in what I did or how I rode. I can come back fresh from a ride, or barely finish the same ride on another day.

IOW, sometimes you have a good day, and sometimes not.

I'll bet this is more likely to explain what you saw than the presence or lack of the Hammer Fizz tablets.

BTW, I take zero electrolyte things when I ride (e.g. 60-80 miles). I put one shake of Lite Salt (NaCl and KCl in my water bottle at the start, but I doubt that does much. I probably do not ride as hard as you do.

DnvrFox 09-02-13 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mycoalson (Post 16024414)
p.s. My sincerest apologies, i don't mean to make light of a serious concern. Personally, in case you haven't figured it out, i'm a little tired of hearing about "miracle cures," "faith healing," and 12 step programs which seem to be more than a bit responsible, for arguing the whole concept.

"we have a disease,"


which it turns out, they believe, is the only disease cured by god.

Not cancer, not diabetes...and although the claim is their disease is about a lack of sanity...not bipolars, schizophrenics, not those with childhood onset leukemia...

But, if you get drunk, high, or gamble too much...god will cure you and you become one of the chosen people.

It certainly couldn't be that your "disease" was all in your mind and your faith...which is all in your mind...made you better...

You got better because you believed you could.

Of course, amongst 12 steppers....believing a person did it, not a higher power, is tantamount to treason, blasphemy and pedophilia.

i b t l

Allegheny Jet 09-02-13 07:45 PM

Planemaker, you don't say what food or gel you may also have consumed on the 50 mile ride. When I do a two hr or less ride I only take two bottles of water if it is cool, if hot I put Gatorade and possibly electrolyte capsules in the bottles. For hard rides longer than two hrs I will take a bottle of Gatorade per hr of riding. I also eat Hammer Gel or Cliff Shots at @ 300 calories per hr beginning from the get-go on long rides. I understand that the body can supply two hrs of stored energy [MENTION=313544]300[/MENTION]-350 calories per hr from stored fuel in the blood, muscles and guts and supply 250-350 calories per hr from fat and process up to 300 calories per hr from calories you eat and drink. By eating right away I dont deplete the stored energy in the first two hrs. So in a nut shell I have about 700 calories per hour of fuel in my body for two hrs work, unless supplementing, and once I use them up I begin bonking unless I slow down and use fewer calories or supplement them via eating. Specific training plans can increase the body's ability to process stored energy that would enable better performance.

I have bonked a few times due to ignorance, poor planning or change of routes. Bonks can beat you down for a week or longer and they are something I avoid by proper planning.

Hope you recover quickly.

doctor j 09-02-13 08:07 PM

On Memorial Day 2012, I bonked to the extent that my main cycling buddy called 911, and I got my first ever ride in an ambulance (and hopefully my last). I could neither walk nor stand. The paramedics plugged me in to a bag of saline solution, and by the time we arrived at the ER, I felt a lot better. The ER doc wanted to give me another bag of saline. I mentioned my total disdain for needles, and we negotiated. We agreed that if I would drink two cans of Gatorade, he would spring me from my medical incarceration.

My bonk appears to have been due primarily to my poor attention to hydration and secondarily to electrolytes. For the remainder of 2012 and so far in 2013, I have paid a lot more attention to hydration and electrolytes. I buy Endurolytes in the 120-count bottles. Especially during the warmer months, I'll take one cap about every 20 miles, give or take a little. I carry one bottle of water and one bottle Powerade that I mix using Powerade powder, and I drink a lot. I carry Powerade powder in small plastic bags so that I can reload as needed.

My experience is that my muscles work better when I am well hydrated and not deficient in electrolyes. So far, so good. No more rides of shame in the back of the meat wagon.

Biker395 09-02-13 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planemaker (Post 16023687)
Can the lack of electrolyte replacement during the ride account for this?

Was it hot? Absolutely.

I attempted a 400 mile ride Saturday. It kicked my ass. The morning temps were in the 80s, with high humidity, and it only got worse from there. At one point, it was 98 degrees and well over 90% humidity. Endurolytes or not, it affected my appetite, and you know what that means ... bonkville.

I gutted it out as best I could for as long as I could, and it finally started to cool down after the sun went down. By 4AM, I was feeling better, but had had enough. I went perhaps 230 miles ... there was no sense in chewing myself up. Oy.

Yea, if the weather is hot and your electrolytes are out of balance, you'll likely ride like crap. Been there, done that.

Endurolytes are not a matter of faith. For me at least, the are necessary for riding in hot weather.

Gnosis 09-02-13 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycoalson (Post 16024414)
P.S. My sincerest apologies, I don't mean to make light of a serious concern. Personally, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm a little tired of hearing about "miracle cures," "faith healing," and 12 step programs which seem to be more than a bit responsible, for arguing the whole concept.

"We have a disease,"


Which it turns out, they believe, is the only disease cured by God.

Not cancer, not diabetes...and although the claim is their disease is about a lack of sanity...not bipolars, schizophrenics, not those with childhood onset leukemia...

But, if you get drunk, high, or gamble too much...God will cure you and you become one of the chosen people.

It certainly couldn't be that your "disease" was all in your mind and your faith...which is all in your mind...made you better...

you got better because you believed you could.

Of course, amongst 12 steppers....believing a person did it, not a higher power, is tantamount to treason, blasphemy and pedophilia.

Peddle your nonsense on some other message board.

GFish 09-03-13 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planemaker (Post 16023687)
Can the lack of electrolyte replacement during the ride account for this?

Yes. It may not be the only reason, but it can be a big problem.

Before long rides, I'll weigh myself both pre and post ride. If I get the hydration right, the post-ride weight will be close to the pre-ride weight. Getting it wrong can lead to fatigue and low energy. During my first year back on the bike, the difference between pre/post frequently reached 5 lbs.... not good. I've learned to hydrate more which has helped on my longer rides. Also, you need electrolytes, not just water, especially if the rides are longer then an hour. I don't like the sugary drinks, they just get to sweet on long rides, and supported rides with extra cookies and such makes sweet drinks even worse. I'm using Nuun right now, the amount of electrolytes falls around the middle when compared to other products.

Also, pushing hard over consecutive days without enough recovery (food, time or both) will also lead to reduce performance.

kingsqueak 09-03-13 05:44 AM

Try this, it works for many lost on the trail of life.

http://rlv.zcache.com/blessed_virgin..._8byvr_512.jpg

BluesDawg 09-03-13 06:56 AM

Sounds like an off day. They happen.

Yankeetowner 09-03-13 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFish (Post 16025250)
Yes. It may not be the only reason, but it can be a big problem.

Before long rides, I'll weigh myself both pre and post ride. If I get the hydration right, the post-ride weight will be close to the pre-ride weight. Getting it wrong can lead to fatigue and low energy. During my first year back on the bike, the difference between pre/post frequently reached 5 lbs.... not good. I've learned to hydrate more which has helped on my longer rides. Also, you need electrolytes, not just water, especially if the rides are longer then an hour. I don't like the sugary drinks, they just get to sweet on long rides, and supported rides with extra cookies and such makes sweet drinks even worse. I'm using Nuun right now, the amount of electrolytes falls around the middle when compared to other products.

Also, pushing hard over consecutive days without enough recovery (food, time or both) will also lead to reduce performance.

It's funny, I weigh myself pre and post ride as well, and I usually use 5-7 pounds in 90+ degree heat on a 40 mile ride (I sweat a lot). I can actually taste the salt around my lips. My problem is that I haven't yet gotten the bike skills to drink and drive, and I get so obsessed with my times that I don't want to stop for water, and then by the time I realize I am getting dehydrated I am not able to think clearly. I am trying to drink more water before I ride, and stop at 20 miles for a quick chug of a water bottle. This seems to have helped, since I haven't gotten weak, a headache, and dizzy recently. For the first time this past weekend I was able to drink and drive, although quite slowly. I would not attempt it yet in a pace line. When I have gotten dehydrated (I refer to it as "bonking") the biggest problem is that I don't seem to be able to think clearly, and start making foolish mistakes like driving off the bike path/road, and not seeing/recognizing cars. The only product I have heard about that is mentioned here is Gatorade, and it is too sweet for me. Plus, being someone who has always had to watch my weight, I have always had a rule that I drink nothing with calories. If there are tablets that would help with dehydration, I would be very interested, particularly if they didn't have a lot of calories.

Popeyecahn 09-03-13 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planemaker (Post 16024485)
lol - Hopefully, this thread won't go as badly as when I started a chain lube thread.

Can I interest you in a Helmet thread... :p

genejockey 09-03-13 09:11 AM

I saw it mentioned but not discussed more thoroughly - eating. Calorie intake. Classic Bonking is not from electrolytes or hydration, but rather blood sugar. If you use up your muscle and liver glycogen stores, and don't take in any food, your body will have to run by burning fat and protein only. Your brain ONLY burns glucose.

I've bonked once, and since then have been much more careful. It's a feeling that's hard to forget - you can barely think, so you're not clear on what's happening to you. You're so weak, you can only just turn the pedals over, and more than anything else you want to lie down and sleep. The day it happened to me, it hit in the last 3 miles of a long ride. On my rides, there are no stores for the last 16 miles. I felt hungry at 1 miles from home, but figured I could make it. Nope. It really was all I could do to get home. Once I got home, I had an overwhelming urge to just lie down and sleep. But a tiny spark in my brain said, "EAT!". I ate a candy bar and within a few minutes I was MUCH, MUCH better.

First thing in the morning, after coffee, I can do a 16 mile ride without any food. 20 would be pushing it, and more than that would be tempting another Bonk. So, I either ride after eating, or I take food and drink an sports drink, about 1 x 24 oz bottle/hour.

And I always, always carry an energy bar. My current one's looking rather beat up. I should probably eat it and get a new one to carry....

aubiecat 09-03-13 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeyecahn (Post 16025971)
Can I interest you in a Helmet thread... :p

How about a kickstand thread. :)

Biker395 09-03-13 09:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsqueak (Post 16025457)
Try this, it works for many lost on the trail of life.

http://rlv.zcache.com/blessed_virgin..._8byvr_512.jpg

Want. It would go well with this ... a Madonna de Ghisallo medallion I decided to pick up after my last crash. I figure it couldn't hurt. :-)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=338376

I agree with genejockey ... it's a matter of taking in the right nutrients, and failure to do that is often due to electrolyte imbalance.

Popeyecahn 09-03-13 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsqueak (Post 16025457)
Try this, it works for many lost on the trail of life.

http://rlv.zcache.com/blessed_virgin..._8byvr_512.jpg

Is that a combo water bottle/Votive candle?

GFish 09-03-13 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankeetowner (Post 16025752)
When I have gotten dehydrated (I refer to it as "bonking") the biggest problem is that I don't seem to be able to think clearly, and start making foolish mistakes like driving off the bike path/road, and not seeing/recognizing cars. The only product I have heard about that is mentioned here is Gatorade, and it is too sweet for me. Plus, being someone who has always had to watch my weight, I have always had a rule that I drink nothing with calories. If there are tablets that would help with dehydration, I would be very interested, particularly if they didn't have a lot of calories.

Try Nuun (do a search), no sugar, only 4 calories per tablet. Easy to take extra tablets with you on long rides. There are other similar products too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 16026035)
I saw it mentioned but not discussed more thoroughly - eating. Calorie intake. Classic Bonking is not from electrolytes or hydration, but rather blood sugar. If you use up your muscle and liver glycogen stores, and don't take in any food, your body will have to run by burning fat and protein only. Your brain ONLY burns glucose.

Good point!

Can't ride long without eating or hydrating, you need both. A long ride for me is over 2 hours. Under 2 hours I'm good with just hydration, anything longer I need both food and liquids. I always take a bar or two with me, but almost never eat if under 2 hours. Hopefully, the wrappers are waterproof to keep sweat out.


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