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  1. #51
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkane77g View Post
    There all Made in China or Indonesia but at least we have a choice on threaded/not threaded.
    AFAIK Cheng Shin makes their tubes in Taiwan..... You wonder though, is a $30 latex tube any better then a $3 butyl tube, when they are made in the same factory.....

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
    Don't put all of the blame on the tube. It may be the tire as well. It is very unlikely you will get a blowout from a properly inflated tube in an undamaged tire unless you don't seat the tire correctly. If you manage to get part of the tube between the rim and the tire you can damage the tire bead and probably will cause the tube to rupture. Once messed up, a tire with a damaged bead will just lift off every time you replace the tube and re-inflate the tire. You can find inexpensive tough tires that are pretty flat resistant. It takes some experimentation to find one that works for you.

    I recently bought a batch of 20 inch and 700C presta tubes from Niagara Cycle and chose several different brands to see if there was much difference between them. I bought Sunlite, Qtubes, and XLC. I also have boxes from Nashbar, Kenda, and Continental. The only brand stamped "Made In China" is Sunlite. All the rest are made in Taiwan. The sunlight tubes are good quality. The brand of tube that I had a problem with recently is a Kenda tube that leaked at the base of the presta valve. None has been defective coming out of the box. The most expensive tube was $3.73 (Qtubes) and the least expensive was $2.92 (Sunlight). Prices vary by the size of the tube of course. My LBS probably charges $7 for similar tubes. I wouldn't buy tubes at places like Walmart because they are so HEAVY. Most were filled with slime which I absolutely abhor. I do have to inflate the 20" tires every few days but that is preferable to using a heavy tube.
    they probably are all made in the same couple of factories with the specs of the company who orders them in mind. Yea you might be lucky, you might ride in an enviorment that is good but if they are made in china they are for sure crap, indonesia slightly better, korea even better yet, but I think they arent making many tubes in Korea anymore.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    AFAIK Cheng Shin makes their tubes in Taiwan..... You wonder though, is a $30 latex tube any better then a $3 butyl tube, when they are made in the same factory.....

    Well, lots of things are made in the same factories. that doesn't mean they are the same thing.

    J.

  4. #54
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Some things made in Taiwan are crap and some things are very good. It depends on their quality control (Just like anywhere else) and what end of the market they are aiming at. Used to be their machine tool manufacturers almost exclusively aimed towards the bottom and now a few of them do quality work.

    There is also a lot of plastic injection moldmaking done over there now and if it wasn't quality enough to handle it's work long term they wouldn't be putting American moldmakers out of work.

    I have to admit not paying attention to tubes unless the valves don't seat though and by then I've thrown away the box they came in. I only remember where I bought them. Specialized was where I bought them when they put their name on the box. Apparently they don't want their name on the box anymore.

    And I've never trusted the latex tubes enough to try them. We're not talking much of a weight difference there.
    Last edited by Zinger; 09-15-13 at 10:59 PM.
    "I never lost a race because my bike was too heavy".......George Mount

  5. #55
    Senior Member mkane77g's Avatar
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    Go tubeless. Haven't had a flat in 5yrs.

  6. #56
    Senior Member tarwheel's Avatar
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    I only use tubes with unthreaded valve stems, if I can help it. The threads will tear up the rubber seals in pump heads, so why bother with them? I used to buy Michelin tubes when Performance used to sell them for good prices, but now they are something like $10 each. One of my bike shops has some nice Torelli unthreaded tubes for about $5 each, and I've bought others on-line. The REI unthreaded tubes are also good but usually cost about $7 each, which is more than I want to pay for a tube.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Well, lots of things are made in the same factories. that doesn't mean they are the same thing.

    J.
    Yup, lots of things are, although if the $3 butyl tube is crap. then I wouldn't be trusting their $30 latex tube. The real difficulty though is house brands. It's not uncommon that a company, say Nashbar will buy 10,000 tubes from Yee's tube company which could be extremely good. Then the next 10,000 tubes come from Yan's Tube Company which are complete crap, they get the contract because they are 3/100 cheaper.

  8. #58
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    It's not uncommon but it's not usual. 9 times out of 10, once the business relationship is established, that's the way it stays.

    Almost all of this is done on a spec basis - a spec is provided to the mfg, they bid it, and then a purchase order is given if the pricing is correct. It's incumbent on the buyer to make sure that the spec is being followed (i.e. Nashbar etc... ) so the blame rests there as well. The good news in this is that there should be some repeatability for a given brand. The bad news is that even if you knew the factory, good and bad stuff can come out of the same factory because it depends on the spec given.

    J.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    It's not uncommon but it's not usual. 9 times out of 10, once the business relationship is established, that's the way it stays.

    Almost all of this is done on a spec basis - a spec is provided to the mfg, they bid it, and then a purchase order is given if the pricing is correct. It's incumbent on the buyer to make sure that the spec is being followed (i.e. Nashbar etc... ) so the blame rests there as well. The good news in this is that there should be some repeatability for a given brand. The bad news is that even if you knew the factory, good and bad stuff can come out of the same factory because it depends on the spec given.

    J.
    Actually also common, that Yan Tube Manufacturing (makes great tubes) gets sold to Yee's Tube Manufacturing (who makes crappy tubes), and then you buy a Yan's tube, and find that the QA has gone down the tubes (yea the pun was intended), and it's just as crappy as a Yee's tube.

  10. #60
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    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    Actually also common, that Yan Tube Manufacturing (makes great tubes) gets sold to Yee's Tube Manufacturing (who makes crappy tubes), and then you buy a Yan's tube, and find that the QA has gone down the tubes (yea the pun was intended), and it's just as crappy as a Yee's tube.
    Like this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=airT-m9LcoY

    J.

  12. #62
    Carpe Velo Yo Spiff's Avatar
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    I've recently been buying Q-tubes, which I think are rebranded Kendas. When I can't wait and am buying them at the nearest LBS, I've leaned toward Specialized, but I see above than a few people don't like them. Bad experiences?
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '88 Trek 900, '92 Trek T100, 2000 Rans Tailwind

  13. #63
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yo Spiff View Post
    I've recently been buying Q-tubes, which I think are rebranded Kendas. When I can't wait and am buying them at the nearest LBS, I've leaned toward Specialized, but I see above than a few people don't like them. Bad experiences?
    I've not had issues with Specialized tubes. Of course the tubes are encased in a Continental Ultra Gatorskin Tire.
    Please support diabetics like myself, a red rider, by supporting the American Diabetes Association.
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  14. #64
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    One of those has some air in it, so not a completely accurate representation. Some tubes do have thicker rubber then others. the issue is that a tube starts out as a flat piece of rubber, the two sides are then connected together, this can be accomplished, usually this is ultrasonic welding. Then the two ends are joined using a similar method. You can tell, because there are seams. It really comes down to QA, out of say 1,000 tubes, a certain number will be tested to see if they are good enough. This is the issue, company X may require a tube be able to hold 150PSI, company Y needs 75PSI, and the problem is when the specification is 75PSI and you need 110PSI....

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    One of those has some air in it, so not a completely accurate representation. Some tubes do have thicker rubber then others. the issue is that a tube starts out as a flat piece of rubber, the two sides are then connected together, this can be accomplished, usually this is ultrasonic welding. Then the two ends are joined using a similar method. You can tell, because there are seams. It really comes down to QA, out of say 1,000 tubes, a certain number will be tested to see if they are good enough. This is the issue, company X may require a tube be able to hold 150PSI, company Y needs 75PSI, and the problem is when the specification is 75PSI and you need 110PSI....
    Beg to differ... both are out of the box, never been used... The big one is over 1.5 Pounds the normal one is 0.6 Pounds...
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    Last edited by 350htrr; 09-17-13 at 08:20 PM.
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  16. #66
    Senior Member Bikey Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    Beg to differ... both are out of the box, never been used... The big one is over 1.5 Pounds the normal one is 0.6 Pounds...
    And they're both the same size(e.g. 700c)?
    Please support diabetics like myself, a red rider, by supporting the American Diabetes Association.
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  17. #67
    Senior Member jeneralist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim24k View Post
    I've had the best luck with Kenda tubes.
    Weird -- I've had the worst luck with those. Brought them along as spares on a two-day, 175 mile ride last year, and about 4 of them split at the seam. (One got an actual nail in the tire.) My riding buddy wound up needing to walk his bike home the last 2 miles; the patches wouldn't hold to the splits, and we ran out of tubes.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
    And they're both the same size(e.g. 700c)?
    Yes, they both fit my 26" 1.9 tires...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  19. #69
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    Beg to differ... both are out of the box, never been used... The big one is over 1.5 Pounds the normal one is 0.6 Pounds...
    Whether it's new out of box or not, it still looks like it's been inflated. Some manufacturers would inflate each tube, as part of QA, then release that air, but if it didn't all get released, then it would look like that. Another issue is, if the smaller one is an ultra-light (had a couple of Michelin ultra-light tubes, and they worked fine, but didn't accept patches well). It would make sense to some degree....

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    Whether it's new out of box or not, it still looks like it's been inflated. Some manufacturers would inflate each tube, as part of QA, then release that air, but if it didn't all get released, then it would look like that. Another issue is, if the smaller one is an ultra-light (had a couple of Michelin ultra-light tubes, and they worked fine, but didn't accept patches well). It would make sense to some degree....
    Yes, exactly, it does look like that... But I went out and squeezed the big tube and I can assure you it has no more air in it than the little tube, just 2.5X more rubber like it shows on the scale...
    Last edited by 350htrr; 09-18-13 at 03:26 PM. Reason: spelling
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  21. #71
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    Only ones I've ever had an issue with is Kenda, bad seam between valves and tube. Must have been a bad lot- had three all with same problems. Shop sent the entire shipment back. My favorites are the Schwalbe tubes,SV12A (From Wall's Bikes)
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  22. #72
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellphinus View Post
    Only ones I've ever had an issue with is Kenda, bad seam between valves and tube. Must have been a bad lot- had three all with same problems. Shop sent the entire shipment back. My favorites are the Schwalbe tubes,SV12A (From Wall's Bikes)
    We may all say Chinese stuff is crap, but there are a billion bicycles in China, and all those bicycles have tubes, and nearly all of those are made in China.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    We may all say Chinese stuff is crap, but there are a billion bicycles in China, and all those bicycles have tubes, and nearly all of those are made in China.
    and I ride tubulars, don't get flats anymore. Just make it so tubes don't matter anymore.

    J.

  24. #74
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    and I ride tubulars, don't get flats anymore. Just make it so tubes don't matter anymore.

    J.
    Tubulars still use tubes, just they are such a PITA to fix, that most people toss the tire and all. I do wonder if tubeless will help, which I guess it would if there was an easy way to fix them on the road.....

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
    Tubulars still use tubes, just they are such a PITA to fix, that most people toss the tire and all. I do wonder if tubeless will help, which I guess it would if there was an easy way to fix them on the road.....
    Tufo has tubeless tubulars. The last two flats I've gotten have been when the tire was worn down to the cords so I really can't blame that on the tire. I keep a maintenance log on my bikes (you know, OCD cyclist thing again). Since switching, I get 1/6 to 1/8th the flats that I did running clinchers. That's huge.

    It's just as easy or easier changing a tubular, and the Tufo emergency goop works pretty well too. So for rides around home, I carry the goop and two CO2 cartridges. If that doesn't work (and that would mean a pretty big hole), then I'll call for a ride. If I'm away from home or home alone, then I carry an extra tire and it fits in a Jandd Wedge (small one) that is not a lot different than I carried for clinchers. Either way, for the last 4 years and thousands of miles, it's worked so well that it would be worth a LOT more hassle in tires - but it's a lot less hassle too (bonus points). On top of that the wheel and tire combo is a lot lighter.

    Yellow Jersey in Madison, WI has had a tubular tire deal for years - 3 tires for $50. They are decent tires too - I've used them. That's less than the latex tubes quoted here and the whole thing would be lighter.

    I would think that tubeless clinchers would be less prone if you were diligent about keeping the sealant level up. For sure you'd eliminate a whole class of flats (pinch flats). I don't have any experience, but I'd guess that changing a tire with tubeless can get messy with the sealant - maybe someone could comment on that.

    J.

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