A shame-faced Luddite confesses to kissing off carbon.
#126
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As the honored original poster of this thread, I never questioned the performance of carbon, just the aesthetics as makers seem to depart increasingly from the "classic" look that I prefer. it's trivial, but I also don't much care for the "hollow" sound they make on bad road surfaces. Trivial to some people? Sure, probably most people. Oh well.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
#127
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I have a Gunnar Sport. Great bike, made by the Waterford guys.
I've used it for everything from group rides to lite touring to commuting.
I bought it for a simple reason, after I tried it, I couldn't not buy it, it put
a smile on my face.
Everyone should have a bike this good.
I've used it for everything from group rides to lite touring to commuting.
I bought it for a simple reason, after I tried it, I couldn't not buy it, it put
a smile on my face.
Everyone should have a bike this good.
At the time I ordered it, the custom option was only $300 extra, so a nice custom frame doesn't have to cost a lot. A nice cf frame doesn't have to cost a lot, either.
I also have a Seven Axoim ti frame with cf fork and it rides a lot like the Cannondale CAAD5 I used to have, in other words, stiff!
I'm a member of a road bike club of over 500 members, have been since 1989, and most of the members ride full cf bikes. Most of them do not race and they seem to enjoy riding those cf bikes just fine. When I show up on a metal bike, I'm the exception.
#128
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As the honored original poster of this thread, I never questioned the performance of carbon, just the aesthetics as makers seem to depart increasingly from the "classic" look that I prefer. it's trivial, but I also don't much care for the "hollow" sound they make on bad road surfaces. Trivial to some people? Sure, probably most people. Oh well.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
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Well you're probably right but I wonder if an LBS put attractive sensible welded steel randonneur kind of bikes out on the floors, for a good price, with their ugly aluminum CF lookin' wannabe bikes what effect it might have for a newbie cycling customer that wasn't necessarily all that interested in racing.
And they wouldn't so much mind getting dusted by guys riding in gym shorts and T shirts
#130
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Yeah but what you are talking is profit margins and bikes aiming at the relatively lower part of the market are necassarilly going to have a lower profit margin. I suspect that's part of the marketing decisions. But I'm no shopping bag counting marketeer and that's why I still hit the timeclock, lol. I've spend little time at an LBS and so will defer the argument.
What I am aware of though is that newer tech doesn't always make practical sense in certain applications. I can still kick butt with well hand-ground brazed carbide on an engine lathe turning 4140 shaftwork (or any other 4140 work for that matter). But the tool salesman who has never done shaftwork on an engine lathe will always try to say I can't beat his carbide inserts.
I'm not foolish enough to say I can replace CNC but I can do that on the manuals alright and have had to make believers more than once. Same with bikes to a degree. I think that CF has applications and steel has others.
What I am aware of though is that newer tech doesn't always make practical sense in certain applications. I can still kick butt with well hand-ground brazed carbide on an engine lathe turning 4140 shaftwork (or any other 4140 work for that matter). But the tool salesman who has never done shaftwork on an engine lathe will always try to say I can't beat his carbide inserts.
I'm not foolish enough to say I can replace CNC but I can do that on the manuals alright and have had to make believers more than once. Same with bikes to a degree. I think that CF has applications and steel has others.
Is any of this a bad thing? I can't see why because sooner or later as you say the old farts (me included) will be dead and the dealers will still have to find customers. The cycling community as a whole embraced CF and even Aluminum for a reason, whatever that reason was, price or performance. Old School still has a place just as it does with Motorcycles and trucks and maybe even machinery. That being said I know people that love old records, my nephew is one. But try as he might he has a much harder time getting a quality record player than he does getting a good DVD or Blue Ray. That is just how it is and it is just as unlikely that the few will reverse that trend. Touring bikes and Brevet bikes like Wedding dresses will still be needed, and made specially or at least in limited quantities.
#131
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Don't see many Calfee's (in fact, any) around here.... pretty rural. LBS's carry the usual Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, Trek lines of bikes. Calfee tries to do tubes, but joins them together with some kinda strange looking "lugs". Not as pretty as my Rivendell, to me. Again, their performance is not in question.
#132
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Don't bother wondering. The people have spoken. In the motorcycle world I am sorta like you retro types here. I like sport bikes where you can see the motor. (I ain't completely like you guys. I still want modern tech.) With a few exceptions they all sell like crap. But there are still people on the message boards who clamor for each new Euro model naked bike to be brought to the US. And every now and then, the big japanese companies do. And inevitably they sell somewhere between terrible and very niche. Except Ducatis. But they're a niche unto themselves.
You can still get yourself a Royal Enfield but they're made in India. I would hope they have a better electrical system than Lucas used to make.
Last edited by Zinger; 11-06-13 at 05:21 AM.
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As the honored original poster of this thread, I never questioned the performance of carbon, just the aesthetics as makers seem to depart increasingly from the "classic" look that I prefer. it's trivial, but I also don't much care for the "hollow" sound they make on bad road surfaces. Trivial to some people? Sure, probably most people. Oh well.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
#134
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No carbon bike in my garage, but I wouldn't mind one. I've currently got steel and aluminum.
Carbon:
Carbon:
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As the honored original poster of this thread, I never questioned the performance of carbon, just the aesthetics as makers seem to depart increasingly from the "classic" look that I prefer. it's trivial, but I also don't much care for the "hollow" sound they make on bad road surfaces. Trivial to some people? Sure, probably most people. Oh well.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.
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I want a carbon fiber casket so it won't rot like wood, rust away like steel, or corrode away like aluminium, and won't be subject to grave diggers looking for titanium to sell to the recyclers!
#138
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That classic look is because of technology, before recent advances in welding technology like TIG welding, it was quite difficult to weld thin tubing like that used in higher end bicycles, without burn through. Brazing (a form of soldering really) the tubes into lugs, was easier because it used a metal that melts at a lower temperature to hold the joints together. CF can be made all in one piece, so they don't need that classic look, it allows different designs to be used.
There's just no accounting for Taste. Or Olde Fartes.
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Lets not get too excited here. Right now the industry is trying to sell carbon and advertising it heavily. But----------what will they be pushing in 5 or 10 years? There is always new technology comming down the pike. Maybe the nano technology will give us a one pound frame that is 5 times stronger than todays carbon frames. You can bet your bippy that the industry will drop carbon as a totally has been, and fully jump on to the new frame tech, and of course charge ever more for it. Save you pennies boyz.
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Lets not get too excited here. Right now the industry is trying to sell carbon and advertising it heavily. But----------what will they be pushing in 5 or 10 years? There is always new technology comming down the pike. Maybe the nano technology will give us a one pound frame that is 5 times stronger than todays carbon frames. You can bet your bippy that the industry will drop carbon as a totally has been, and fully jump on to the new frame tech, and of course charge ever more for it. Save you pennies boyz.
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#143
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Thank you, Wogster! Human nature being what it is, I suppose we draw lines of resistance against change and it's underlying threat-- mortality. I prefer 57 Chevies, lugged steel bikes, and hamburgers with ketchup not salsa. Someday, my son may draw his line by preferring good old carbon to ...... well, whatever is the latest thing bike engineers have come up with then.
There's just no accounting for Taste. Or Olde Fartes.
There's just no accounting for Taste. Or Olde Fartes.
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Lets not get too excited here. Right now the industry is trying to sell carbon and advertising it heavily. But----------what will they be pushing in 5 or 10 years? There is always new technology comming down the pike. Maybe the nano technology will give us a one pound frame that is 5 times stronger than todays carbon frames. You can bet your bippy that the industry will drop carbon as a totally has been, and fully jump on to the new frame tech, and of course charge ever more for it. Save you pennies boyz.
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And how will they do that without coal fired mills? In 20 years most of the steel is real riders will be dead and no one will remember how to make a metal bike? And without the products we get from petroleum our food production will be down, the delivery system will be broken and the doomsday people will be shooting cyclists as varmints. As long as we are pontificating.
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And how will they do that without coal fired mills? In 20 years most of the steel is real riders will be dead and no one will remember how to make a metal bike? And without the products we get from petroleum our food production will be down, the delivery system will be broken and the doomsday people will be shooting cyclists as varmints. As long as we are pontificating.
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I specifically said metal, which is not necessarily steel, it could be steel, it could be another metal, it could even be an alloy we have never seen before. I expect though, that if people are shooting cyclists, it will be to steal the bicycle, because those will be the price of a car, and cars, well at $45/gallon, expect that they will be abandoned at the side of the road, because nearly everyone will be paid the minimum wage of $12/hr....
What no air cars and moving sidewalks? No synthetic humans? Blade Runner was just
a movie? I would have responded quicker except I haven't taught my smart phone to post by voice. Will look into Dragon.
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I have both CF and steel. I love the feel of my CF EPX 303 (named Carbon Electra) on any road. It is lighter, faster and more responsive, but I Love the look of my CA 1990's 7-speed Fuji Ace (named Steely Dan). It is a workhorse that has never failed me. It is the best of both worlds.