rekmeyata

If it's an alloy we never heard of before you can bet you're grannie's wet t-shirt it will cost so much that only Bill Gates will be able to afford it, or it so top secret only the military will know of it's existence.

Biker395 

Boy, this thread really has legs.



Or the other way around?

Mobile 155

You have to remember this is the"get off of my lawn" group.

Zinger

I guess this is the original version made by the original manufacturer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ewt6kuq-FM

Royal Enfields are made in India anymore. I believe that the Indian manufacturer discontinued their more recent conversion because of emission regulation problems. There certainly are a lot of different conversions done by individuals of these though.

Just to stay on topic, You can buy a diesel kit for a bicycle too

Junkers actually made a diesel aircraft engine before the war. Horizontally opposed to keep the compression up and the RPMs as well. Two cycle and seems a very simple ingenious design actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QxEXYlc2w

They eventually replaced it with a standard four cycle petrol Daimler-Benz during the war though. Probably weight concerns.

The strangest engines of all were the British wartime sleeve valve aircraft engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgiPv5uPX-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vrvep_YOio

Rhodabike

Interesting that people are equating the "steel is real" crowd with old farts. My 70+ husband and his contemporaries (former clubmates that he used to race against/with) all have old steel lugged bikes in their basements or garages, but most actually prefer to ride modern carbon or aluminum. A lot of the steel fanatics that I've met are actually quite young, in their 20s through 40s. The 20-somethings, especially, seem to love the look of "retro" stuff that passed out of use long before they were born. Stuff that people who actually used it 50 years ago long since gave up with a sigh of relief.

BluesDawg

I have dirt road and paved road bikes made of steel and others made of carbon. Each has its advantages. Each is attractive. Each is ridden often. Each has a special place in my heart.

Dudelsack 

WHAT?

OldTryGuy

Be interesting to see how many riders would be able to identify the frame/fork material of exact geometry bikes if the rider had blinders and noise dampening headphones on and then rode the bikes on a test track.

Remember that beauty & eyes quote.

john.b

I test rode a Specialized Roubaix Elite with carbon frame/fork side by side with the Secteur Sport that is basically their Roubaix frame design made from aluminum with a carbon fork and could absolutely feel the difference.

But don't take my word for it. This is an experiment you can conduct yourself at your own well-stocked Spesh dealer.

OldTryGuy

I have a Columbus SL, the Al CAAD8 and Propel SL and can feel the difference just as others would, simply wondering if the actual material used could be identified if visual and sound input was not available to the rider.

crazyb

As long as they have identical wheelsets and tires.

john.b

Point taken, though neither of these had particularly high end components.

Zinger

Here's the line of British Madison Genesis bikes that Bill mentioned:

https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/

Quite a surprise to me to find any steel bike still competing with CF in any major stage race.

If I had grown up during the transitional era where steel was being phased out by the manufacturers there's no telling what I might buy and ride. I still listen to '30s tunes even though I wasn't around then and don't listen to post punk much despite being surrounded by it. I didn't even like it when they started hiding the brake cables with aerodynamic levers, lol. But I might also be riding Carbon (which I've never even done yet) and extolling it's virtues.

What I do think is kind of sad is that for anybody wanting to compete (which I never did) it takes more $$$ just go down and put a bike on layaway for the contemporary equivalent of what you used to pay for a Peugeot PX10 and get into the sport with something as good as it's motor anymore. It looks to me like Genesis might be aiming for that market so hats off to them. If you want to grow the sport it has to appeal to hungry competitors to get many more of the willing to sacrifice involved in it and exotic materials are often price prohibitive for working class kids anymore.

rydabent

rekmeyata

Per you post that when the new nano technology can produce a one pound frame that is maybe 10 times stronger than carbon, and the UCI. Their 15 pound bike rule is as antique as are almost all of their rules. They want to keep bikes the same as they were in 1895.

For those interested google graphene to see what im taking about.

h2oxtc

Wow! I haven't heard of Graphene before. Found this video and began to imagine a bike made with Graphine - no Di2 cables, the frame material itself is conductive. Interesting.

Zinger

Graphene sounds.......expensive.

Rhodabike

In relative terms, bikes are probably less expensive now than they were back in the 70s and 80s. You can buy a decent entry level bike for about $1200, which is equivalent to what was about $300 back in the day. The modern entry level bike will have equipment that works far better than what came with my entry level Nishiki back in the early 80s. The bike that I had before that one was only about $40 less when it was purchased new in 1977, and was poorer quality than the Nishiki.
I have fond memories of the Nishiki and often think that I should never have sold it to make room for a Vitus, but the truth is, it was a crude bike compared to it's modern equivalent.
And working class kids - I was one - always have the option of buying second hand from someone wealthier who wants to make room for a newer machine. Certainly they don't have to learn to repack their own bearings any more, as I did. (Couldn't afford to take my bike to a shop)
Actually, now that I think of it "Working class kids" probably have more money than their middle class classmates these days, especially if they've take up a trade instead of a student loan for university.

Zinger

Well I wish my wages matched that inflation hike. But if they did I'd probably be riding at least one CF. I think I paid less than $500 for my last new purchase in '87 and the reason I chose the '86 model was because Aero brake levers depress me .

I say "get off my lawn" to the tune of the Stones "Get Off My Cloud" and threw away the shifter index plate to the only index shifter I ever owned before I rode 5 blocks.

Am I curable? Probably not.

Don't you hate yourself just a little for selling that Nishiki though ? My parted out Italvega and sold Univega outweigh any romantic regrets I ever have. I get to build another Trek 970 though.....Sealed hubs this time.

rekmeyata

Ah, but, in order for graphene to make itself 200 times stronger than steel it has to be mixed into steel. This really isn't any more revolutionary than when we found out that putting steel mesh into a concrete pad foundation for a house made the foundation stronger against earthquakes than concrete by itself. Does that mean it's not interesting and without hope? not by a long shot, just as putting steel mesh into foundations was not either. But it seems we'll still have a bike that has the look and feel of steel but be lighter and more resilient to impacts and flexing.

loneviking61

The steel framed bikes will still be around for a long time, simply because you can modify and repair them so much easier than aluminum. Don't get me wrong, my everyday/commute bike is aluminum/carbon/TI. But, I know that if I wipe out and bend the frame, even the chainstays, then the bike is pretty much done for.

Case in point, a beautiful Cannondale Black Lightning given to my teen age son. Aluminum frame, seemed to be in really good shape but couldn't get the darn thing to shift right. The chain didn't seem to be running straight on the back, and a check down at the local bike project shop showed why---the power side chainstay was bent just a little bit. There's no way to straighten it without likely cracking it. So, the bike is being converted into a single (or possibly a double) speed. If this had been a steel frame, it could have been straightened and saved.

Fred Smedley

https://www.crumptoncycles.com/index.html

big john

I don't race either but I know lots of people who do. Many people who race will use their cheaper bike for racing or just own a cheaper bike so if it is damaged in a crash the loss isn't so much.
"Race what you can replace" is the mantra for some.
Obviously the smartest, best racers will do just as well on a less expensive bike and money isn't stopping people from racing, at least not the cost of a race-worthy machine.

tcs

My first derailleur bike, a '69 Varsity cost $82 new. Against the CPI, that's $523 (2013). A 2013 Dawes Lightning DT goes for $260 - that's just $41 (1969).

Good ol' days? Not so much.

Zinger

Well as the one who started this price argument direction I'd have to say that a steel wheeled Schwinn Varsity won't be usually be keeping up with the Jones'es so easily unless you were a mighty strong rider.....I know because I also started out riding one of those tanks. I was thinking more in line with one of the French imports of the late '70s (which I never owned) for around $300. Like a Peugeot PX10.

That's one advantage the old days had is that the tech wasn't so advanced that there were such huge differences in lugged steel other than tubing type and accessories. It was just a more practical era in that regard.

rekmeyata

Except for one thing, the Varsity was made in America and the Dawes in China, so the good old days have passed you by for cheaper labor and no health, disability, or pollution worries or laws.