Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42
  1. #1
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    Rodriguez Shiftless street fixie with S&S couplers, Kuwahara tandem, Trek carbon, Dolan track
    Posts
    2,065
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Component Lines that Bombed

    Here's a test for all you 50+ers who have been riding since the 70's or before. Can you think of famous component lines that appeared, then were quickly withdrawn?

    For example, I was commenting the other day about Shimano producing their track stuff with a 144 bolt circle, and mentioned that they'd probably learned their lesson from the failure of their 10mm-pitch track ensemble back in the late 70's (as I recall). Remember 10mm pitch? You needed to get new chainrings, 10mm-pitch chain, and new cogs. Talk about getting locked in! But they did get some track pro's of the day to use it. As long as it was free, why not?

    Shimano was (is) famous for trying to lock you into their gruppos. Remember the old Dyna-Drive pedals? It DID NOT use the standard 9/16 pedal threads, so you had to buy new cranks to use them. I think the gruppo was part of the "AX" (aerodynamic) series, which included an aero center-pull brake, something like Campag's Delta brake.

    Campagnolo also came out with some notable failures, including what I think was the worst pedal ever made: the SGR. Very heavy, designed to lock in one position until you got clipped in. And then you were clipped in pretty permanently!

    One discontinued Campag component I did like was their Cobalto brakes. The locknut was finished off with a blue plastic "cobalt" stone piece of trim. Totally unnecessary and completely non-functional, but did it ever look sharp! You can buy old Record Cobalto brakes on ebay, but they now cost way more than they did originally! Somebody gave me a couple of the cobalt nuts, which I put on regular Record calipers. Unfortunately, the bike was stolen in Prague...

    Luis

  2. #2
    www.ocrebels.com Rick@OCRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    My Bikes
    GT Edge Titanium, Mercian Vincitore, Masi Gran Criterium, GT Zaskar, Hercules 3-Speed, KHS Flight Team
    Posts
    5,370
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Zeus comes to mind as a blatant Campagnolo copy out of Spain that sold some but pretty much failed. Weyless was huge in the 70's but for sure faded away, as did Cool Gear. I would have put Hi-E in the same bunch but someone told me they are still going, so I don't know.

    Oh, plus Excel components. Big initial push but then no follow through. They may have been early 80's though. Shimano should also get credit (or not) for Bio-Pace along these same lines. And remember Miche hubs? Is Avocet still alive? What about Ofmega? Others may occur to me, but those are the first off the top.

    Rick / OCRR
    Last edited by Rick@OCRR; 12-18-13 at 08:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    1,914
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    Here's a test for all you 50+ers who have been riding since the 70's or before. Can you think of famous component lines that appeared, then were quickly withdrawn?
    "The Seat" by Cool Gear. Had a teammate finish a criterium standing up when the saddle top popped off the rails.

    "Funny Bikes" w/ the small front wheel. Most miserable handling machine I ever rode was of that ilk.

    "Teledyne Titan" frames. Either ahead of their time or behind in their engineering, could have been either or both.

    "Exxon-Graftek" frames. Same as above.
    "Avocet Cycle-Computer". Great product, but Always own the source code.

    -Bandera
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  4. #4
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    Rodriguez Shiftless street fixie with S&S couplers, Kuwahara tandem, Trek carbon, Dolan track
    Posts
    2,065
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    "The Seat". Had a teammate finish a criterium standing up when the saddle top popped off the rails.

    "Funny Bikes" w/ the small front wheel. Most miserable handling machine I ever rode was of that ilk.

    "Teledyne Titans". Either ahead of their time or behind in their engineering, could have been either or both.

    "Avocet Cycle-Computer". Great product, but Always own the source code.

    -Bandera
    I think a company called Cool Gear (The Jacobs Corporation? based in Colorado?) was responsible for "The Seat." They didn't seem to realize that cyclists often lift up the bike by the saddle. I think their saddles kind of snapped in to the rails? Then when the leather saddle pops off, you've got these upward-pointing rails (reminiscent of insidious torture devices) underneath your butt! Not very safe or comfortable at all...

    I used to use Avocet computers. They came in different colors. The magnet was a round thing that clipped to the side of the hub. It was fine until you used some sort of non-standard aero wheel or hub that would not accept the ring. I stopped using them when they kept resetting by themselves, or failing when they got wet (screen would just go completely blank). Switched to Sigma and have been mostly happy ever since. They also had a more expensive version that included an altimeter. Greg Lemond pushed them for a couple of years, then when the sponsorship expired, he sued the company because they kept using his picture in their ads...

    I think the big problem with Teledyne Titans was that they were made of pure titanium, rather than the refined 6Al2V Ti alloy. As a result, they (like the previous Speedwell Ti frames) handled like limp noodles. They also broke apart pretty easily.

    Funny bikes disappeared when the UCI mandated same wheel size, front & rear. But you still see small front wheels (24") used on stayers' bikes, used for motorpaced races in the pro 6-days. But these have the fork reversed so the rider can get closer to the roller, and to make the bike handleable at 80+ kmh behind the motor!

    Luis

  5. #5
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    Rodriguez Shiftless street fixie with S&S couplers, Kuwahara tandem, Trek carbon, Dolan track
    Posts
    2,065
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR View Post
    Shimano should also get credit (or not) for Bio-Pace along these same lines. And remember Miche hubs? Is Avocet still alive? What about Ofmega? Others may occur to me, but those are the first off the top.

    Rick / OCRR
    Bio-Pace, or at least the elliptical chainring, has made a kind of comeback. Rotor (a Spanish company noted for their cranks) makes Q-Rings, and Bradley Wiggins has been using Osymmetric rings.

    Miche is still around. (It's an Italian company, so it's pronounced "mee-kay." Resist the temptation to pronounce it in French - "meesh." Although I think it sounds better in French. Just like "Dura Ace" sounds better in Italian ("doo-rah ah-chay")!

    Luis

  6. #6
    Senior Member az_cyclist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    My Bikes
    Trek Domane 4.5, Trek 1500
    Posts
    1,699
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had good luck with the Avocet computer.. I guess I was lucky

  7. #7
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,453
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Shimano's Positron front freewheel drive train.

    that chainring that split to shift .

    and the one with a bunch of like little pulleys in slots that expanded as a weight spun

    or automatic shifting schemes for bikes in General

    BTW it was Zeus pre Christian, so pagan, god of the gods (odd for such a Papist country like Spain)

    made some really cool Titanium stuff..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-18-13 at 05:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    26,351
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Avocet was a distribution company that was very successful in bringing some very good products to market; their saddles, tyres, and computers were ubiquitous and they still focus on tyres, shoes, saddles, and computers but there is a lot more competition now.

    The Avocet Cross tyre was one of my favourites and I am fortunate to have found some NOS and they have recently been put back in production as the Cross 2.

    Shimano's Biopace was a sound design but a marketing failure.

    Zeus made some rather beautiful components and some were copies of Campagnolo and it is suspected that they also worked as a contractor for them... when the Japanees came to dominate the cycling world most of the European companies folded or merged and Zeus was a victim of that while Campagnolo was lucky to have lasted long enough to catch up.

  9. #9
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    1,914
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had a Zeus track bike "back when", it was a good solid cost effective piece of kit.
    I bought it from a teammate whose Paramount was finally delivered and sold it to another teammate when I moved to an area with no velodrome. Perhaps it's still going 'round and 'round......

    -Bandera
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Oahu, HI
    My Bikes
    89 Paramount OS 84 Fuji Touring Series III New! 2013 Focus Izalco Ergoride
    Posts
    178
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Mavic ZAP electric shift RD? Thought it was pretty cool at the time, but never actually saw one in person.

    scott s.
    .

  11. #11
    www.ocrebels.com Rick@OCRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    My Bikes
    GT Edge Titanium, Mercian Vincitore, Masi Gran Criterium, GT Zaskar, Hercules 3-Speed, KHS Flight Team
    Posts
    5,370
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    Bio-Pace, or at least the elliptical chainring, has made a kind of comeback. Rotor (a Spanish company noted for their cranks) makes Q-Rings, and Bradley Wiggins has been using Osymmetric rings. ("doo-rah ah-chay")!
    Luis
    Yes Luis,

    And remember that Roger Durham had "Bulls-Eye" brand elliptical chain-rings before Shimano had Bio-Pace (which we "Italianized" to bee-Oh'-Potch-aye). Remember Bulls-Eye pulleys? I even had a set of Bulls-Eye sealed bearing hubs.

    Anyone remember Omas and Edco bottom brackets? From the 70's too.

    Rick / OCRR

  12. #12
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,453
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Have Gippiemme (GPM) triple crankset I put together in the 80's as a 52-36 wide step double

    Campag's largest Cross chainguard replaces the outer ring, the 52 is in the middle.

    Its lovely though set aside as Im not climbing passes at 160 pounds body weight any more.


    bombed is a bit harsh not every company wins in the world market

    divisions of the Fichtel-Sachs Group were thrown under the Bus , by the SRAM buyout

    the Chicago people just didn't care about the Malliard freewheel division, for example,
    and shipped all the Sachs German production machinery to Taiwan.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-18-13 at 09:26 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member muzpuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Argentin (X-4) Colnago Super, +3 misc Bianchi Corsa Bikes
    Posts
    443
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by az_cyclist View Post
    I had good luck with the Avocet computer.. I guess I was lucky
    I had the avoset 50 that told me my altitude great on hilly rides (time killer)

  14. #14
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    ariZona carbon fiber tandem & single
    Posts
    10,065
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stewart Warner bicycle speedometer/odometer that ran a little wheel off the side of the front tire I the mid-70s..
    Lucas cyclometers (British).
    Still have a Hi-E bottle cage mounted on the front handlebar of our tandem . . . 30-some years of use!
    Allsop c/f beams.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    176
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Avocet was a distribution company that was very successful in bringing some very good products to market; their saddles, tyres, and computers were ubiquitous and they still focus on tyres, shoes, saddles, and computers but there is a lot more competition now.

    The Avocet Cross tyre was one of my favourites and I am fortunate to have found some NOS and they have recently been put back in production as the Cross 2.

    Shimano's Biopace was a sound design but a marketing failure.

    Zeus made some rather beautiful components and some were copies of Campagnolo and it is suspected that they also worked as a contractor for them... when the Japanees came to dominate the cycling world most of the European companies folded or merged and Zeus was a victim of that while Campagnolo was lucky to have lasted long enough to catch up.
    Avocet is still in business

    http://www.avocet.com

  16. #16
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    26,351
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wapiti View Post
    Avocet is still in business

    http://www.avocet.com
    As I said,

    "they still focus on tyres, shoes, saddles, and computers"

    They just aren't as big as they used to be...

  17. #17
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    In the foothills of Los Angeles County
    Posts
    10,867
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ergo, Campagnolo mtb group.

  18. #18
    tcs
    tcs is offline
    Palmer tcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Parts unknown
    Posts
    4,291
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Spinergy Rev X wheels come to mind.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  19. #19
    Senior Member TJClay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Costa Mesa, Ca.
    My Bikes
    Domane Project One, 6 series, Ui2
    Posts
    406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    remember when bikes used cables to shift instead of electronics?
    ttp://pedalmybike.com/userTrackies/myTrackie3491.jpg[/img]

  20. #20
    George Krpan
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westlake Village, California
    Posts
    1,072
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a friend who still rides his Teledyne Titan. He says it was the first superbike. I disagree, it's far too flexy. I contend that the first superbike was the Cannondale 2.8 with Sub-one aluminum fork, 1 1/4" threaded headset, and cantilevered rear dropouts. When this bike came out most people were still riding lugged steel frames/forks with downtube shifters. Back in the day, the 2.8 looked so radical, still does really.

    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    I think a company called Cool Gear (The Jacobs Corporation? based in Colorado?) was responsible for "The Seat." They didn't seem to realize that cyclists often lift up the bike by the saddle. I think their saddles kind of snapped in to the rails? Then when the leather saddle pops off, you've got these upward-pointing rails (reminiscent of insidious torture devices) underneath your butt! Not very safe or comfortable at all...

    I used to use Avocet computers. They came in different colors. The magnet was a round thing that clipped to the side of the hub. It was fine until you used some sort of non-standard aero wheel or hub that would not accept the ring. I stopped using them when they kept resetting by themselves, or failing when they got wet (screen would just go completely blank). Switched to Sigma and have been mostly happy ever since. They also had a more expensive version that included an altimeter. Greg Lemond pushed them for a couple of years, then when the sponsorship expired, he sued the company because they kept using his picture in their ads...

    I think the big problem with Teledyne Titans was that they were made of pure titanium, rather than the refined 6Al2V Ti alloy. As a result, they (like the previous Speedwell Ti frames) handled like limp noodles. They also broke apart pretty easily.

    Funny bikes disappeared when the UCI mandated same wheel size, front & rear. But you still see small front wheels (24") used on stayers' bikes, used for motorpaced races in the pro 6-days. But these have the fork reversed so the rider can get closer to the roller, and to make the bike handleable at 80+ kmh behind the motor!

    Luis

  21. #21
    George Krpan
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westlake Village, California
    Posts
    1,072
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I actually got to ride a Zap equipped bike. It worked perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott967 View Post
    Mavic ZAP electric shift RD? Thought it was pretty cool at the time, but never actually saw one in person.

    scott s.
    .

  22. #22
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    8,588
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ergomo Power meters featured a bottom bracket that measured power - now bankrupt.

    Softride suspended beams.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  23. #23
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,453
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Softride suspended beams.
    Softride now is a Car accessory company . racks to carry your bike.
    they dropped bikes, competing with the other side of the pacific, entirely

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
    Posts
    273
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Not sure if they are in business or not but an established brand that seems to have disappeared is "Pro-Togs" cycling clothing. I still have a couple of their jerseys and a pair of tights - all 100% wool and very comfortable - even after 30 years. I guess when everything switched to technical clothing they didn't keep up? Other brands that used to be common and now probably occupy more of a niche market - Detto Pietro shoes, Sugino bottom brackets and cranks and Avocet (mentioned above). Still have a beautiful set of Avocet hubs (I think somewhere in the basement) that I used on my first set of training clinchers so my good tubular wheels with Campy Nuevo Record hubs wouldn't have too much use. And does Simplex still make shifters and derailleurs?

  25. #25
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    12,989
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR View Post
    Zeus comes to mind as a blatant Campagnolo copy out of Spain that sold some but pretty much failed.
    FWIW, Zeus actually pre-dates Campagnolo as a bicycle component manufacturer (1926 vs 1933). Some of their components were very similar in design to Campagnolo's, but the top-end Zeus group ("2000") was actually quite innovative and made more extensive use of titanium and drillium than any other manufacturer. The model 2000 pedals were superficially similar to Campagnolo's, but used titanium in both the spindle and the cage; this meant that the Zeus cage was much more durable than Campagnolo's aluminum cage and only trivially heavier. Remember, this was a time when racers used slotted cleats, and grit caught in the cleat would quickly wear down the aluminum cage. The pedals also used sealed cartridge bearings, which was quite innovative at the time. There are even rumors that Campagnolo contracted Zeus to produce titanium bits for the original Super Record component group. They were also fairly unique in being "vertically integrated" in producing their own frames in addition to components and tools.

    Although Zeus never had quite the cachet as Campagnolo, they did acquire more than a few palmares over the years and sponsored many amateur teams in North America and Europe.

    Last edited by JohnDThompson; 12-19-13 at 03:46 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •