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Old 12-20-13, 07:44 PM   #26
DnvrFox
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My feeling is that when magazines start closing down, the interest in their subject is waning, too. Maybe, just maybe, the interest in cycling has peaked, and now is starting to decline. The participation rate in BFs is another one of those indicators that has been declining for a while. Another cycling website in Australia that I contemplated participating in shows almost no activity.

Having said that, a lot of what Mobile 155 says is true. I will glance through the local rag if someone has it, but most of the "news" is what I read and heard the day before. Just about all my news information comes through my computer.

And taken to its logical conclusion, I am being somewhat more environmentally friendly in not consuming newsprint and magazine paper.
True - it used to be that there were more folks online at any given time. I attribute some of this, however, to certain policies of BFN that have infuriated some folks, and also allowing some folks, such as in this forum, to attack or belittle participants while being more worried about whether or not the thread is in the right cubicle. (Well, I wonder how long this post (or I) will last??)
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Old 12-20-13, 07:56 PM   #27
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Having only returned to cycling a few years ago, I've never read a hard copy bicycling publication. But as a long time follower of Thoroughbred racing and breeding, I've subscribed to several publications in that arena since the 70s. Only one remains in business and we still subscribe (my wife shares this interest), but now find they sit in a pile unread. We get the information we need and want elsewhere and their 'exclusive' content has declined in both quality and quantity to the point that we just don't bother anymore. With rates somewhere near $100/year, it won't be long before we decide to stop sending the check.

Similarly, I read one and often several newspapers every day for most of my life. I no longer do. The prices kept rising for an increasingly inferior product. My father was a newspaper editor and one of my brothers followed in that career, so I felt a certain allegiance to print media for the longest time. But I just don't think the industry was capable of adapting to changing times and as a result is fast becoming an anachronism. Magazines and newsprint will be an historical artifact in 20 years.
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Old 12-20-13, 10:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
My feeling is that when magazines start closing down, the interest in their subject is waning, too. Maybe, just maybe, the interest in cycling has peaked, and now is starting to decline. The participation rate in BFs is another one of those indicators that has been declining for a while. Another cycling website in Australia that I contemplated participating in shows almost no activity.

Having said that, a lot of what Mobile 155 says is true. I will glance through the local rag if someone has it, but most of the "news" is what I read and heard the day before. Just about all my news information comes through my computer.

And taken to its logical conclusion, I am being somewhat more environmentally friendly in not consuming newsprint and magazine paper.
You may be right, but I hope not. The U.S. Census conducts the American Community Survey every year. They ask a lot of questions and many of them involve transportation choices. For the past five year, Portland, OR has seen no change in the percentage of residents who ride bikes to work (6%). Boston, MA has been flat for four years (2%). Sacramento, CA is has been stuck around 2.5% for four years. New York City is just getting in the game at 1%, so it hasn't made it there yet. Even Davis, CA, the former Bicycle Capital of the World, has stalled in it's attempts to recapture its former status.

Personally, I hope we are seeing a temporary leveling-off as opposed to the onset of decline. Considering the ever-growing percentage of Americans under the age of thirty who not only don't drive but have chosen to not even get a driver's license, I think it's too early to declare the third bike boom dead.
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Old 12-21-13, 06:42 AM   #29
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True - it used to be that there were more folks online at any given time. I attribute some of this, however, to certain policies of BFN that have infuriated some folks, and also allowing some folks, such as in this forum, to attack or belittle participants while being more worried about whether or not the thread is in the right cubicle. (Well, I wonder how long this post (or I) will last??)
I have found personal attacks to be pretty uncommon but I do agree that this penchant for moving threads is annoying as hell. IMO if there's no foul, don't blow the whistle.
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Old 12-21-13, 07:35 AM   #30
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True - it used to be that there were more folks online at any given time. I attribute some of this, however, to certain policies of BFN that have infuriated some folks, and also allowing some folks, such as in this forum, to attack or belittle participants while being more worried about whether or not the thread is in the right cubicle. (Well, I wonder how long this post (or I) will last??)
That'll preach, bro.
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Old 12-21-13, 09:30 AM   #31
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"For the past five year, Portland, OR has seen no change in the percentage of residents who ride bikes to work (6%). Boston, MA has been flat for four years (2%). Sacramento, CA is has been stuck around 2.5% for four years. New York City is just getting in the game at 1%, so it hasn't made it there yet. Even Davis, CA, the former Bicycle Capital of the World, has stalled in it's attempts to recapture its former status."

Not so sure commuter participation has much or anything to do with enthusiast magazines going belly up. It really comes down to the shift in the culture...ie, shift towards an electronic culture. My son reads stuff on line all day long. Would never think of buying a magazine, doesn't ever cross his mind. Still a shame, though. If it ain't in print, how will it be preserved?
Electronically, of course? Until a file is purged or the storage format is changed. Who remembers floppy disks of various sizes? Not the twenty somethings. Electronic mags are temporary. Won't be able to go back 100 years to read a review on a 2015 Cannondale or something unless somehow, somewhere, someone has it stored on a server hooked to the web.
It is possible to pick up a book published in 1850 and read it. I wonder if that will be said about electronic only format mags or books 150 years from now.
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Old 12-21-13, 10:06 AM   #32
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Mobile, I must admit that of all the electronic versions, the Wall Street Journal is one of the best and most comfortable to read. Unlike my own National Post up here, they seem to understand that the digital version doesn't need to look like a literal newspaper with pages to 'turn'. (By the way, the plagiarizers are at NYT).
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Old 12-21-13, 10:18 AM   #33
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I love paper magazines but I don't buy them. I don't read cycling magazines, too full of hype, I don't believe a word. I once knew a writer for Bicycling Magazine. He wrote road bike reviews yet he was not really a road bike rider, he'd get stomped on a group ride. His reviews were pure fiction.
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Old 12-21-13, 01:02 PM   #34
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When times are tough people have to choose between food & shelter and everything else which puts magazines on the bottom of the heap.
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Old 12-21-13, 01:56 PM   #35
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Bidet?

The bidet is one of France's greatest contributions to civilization!
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Old 12-21-13, 03:47 PM   #36
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"For the past five year, Portland, OR has seen no change in the percentage of residents who ride bikes to work (6%). Boston, MA has been flat for four years (2%). Sacramento, CA is has been stuck around 2.5% for four years. New York City is just getting in the game at 1%, so it hasn't made it there yet. Even Davis, CA, the former Bicycle Capital of the World, has stalled in it's attempts to recapture its former status."

Not so sure commuter participation has much or anything to do with enthusiast magazines going belly up. It really comes down to the shift in the culture...ie, shift towards an electronic culture. My son reads stuff on line all day long. Would never think of buying a magazine, doesn't ever cross his mind. Still a shame, though. If it ain't in print, how will it be preserved?
Electronically, of course? Until a file is purged or the storage format is changed. Who remembers floppy disks of various sizes? Not the twenty somethings. Electronic mags are temporary. Won't be able to go back 100 years to read a review on a 2015 Cannondale or something unless somehow, somewhere, someone has it stored on a server hooked to the web.
It is possible to pick up a book published in 1850 and read it. I wonder if that will be said about electronic only format mags or books 150 years from now.
The electric versions allow you to actually find and read, often for free, books published in 1850. I've just finished Francis Parkman's fine account of his travels on the western plains, The Oregon Trail, published in 1849. Also Catlin's accounts of his travels among Indian tribes, pub. 1841. Whymper's Scambles Amongst the Alps pub. 1871. And many other books of historical and general interest. Project Gutenberg, Archive.org, and other compilers make this information instantly available.

When I read one of these e-books on my IPad, I often open another computer next to me to look up maps, pictures and other related information to better understand the material I'm reading. I still purchase books, but now mostly for their visual content. Just this morning I found a wonderful book of photographs, maps and commentary "The Lost Photographs of Captain Scott". I plan to purchase this to supplement my reading of the tragic Scott polar expedition of 1912. Scott's diaries and other commentary of his expeditions are available on line, for free.

And, keeping up with the bicycle content, it's far more likely that you'll fine a digitized version of a bicycle review, or an old catalog, than it is that you'll find a hard copy some place. I only need to go to velobase.com if I want to see a 1975 Motobecane catalogue that pictures the Grand Jubilees that I bought for my wife and myself. I can't remember the last time I even bothered to look for a hard copy of the owner's manual or parts list for something I own. It's just quicker, easier and more certain to look up the information online. Plus, if you want to see how to repair a window blind or fold up the portable crib that you bought for your grandkids, there are numerous, helpful videos on YouTube.

The environmental benefit of electronic data storage is immense. Only a small fraction of energy and materials used to print, circulate and store hard copy information is needed for the same task using the electronic versions.

Oh, and after cataract surgery, my ability to read a book in hard copy form at night went down to about zero. Now, when I read at night, I always read from my iPad. It has made a massive improvement in my quality of life.
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Old 12-21-13, 04:08 PM   #37
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Sorry to see Paved go. I liked the pics and some of the stories. On the fence on the larger format, figured this was a marketing choice rather then consumer driven. The real problem with Paved, from my view, the value to cost wasn't there. Just to expensive with so little content, or articles I was interested in. Really, the mag targeted a real niche market, nothing mainstream, even from a cycling perspective.

Guess I'm a minority..... still love print media, always have, and have no plans on changing. I like thumbing through paper and tossing a mag all around the house. No batteries, no lost or corrupted files. And I find it tiring reading off screens and monitors so much, it's a nice break having a hard copy.

Currently subscribe to Bicycling and Road Bike Action. I find enough interesting articles to stay entertained each month and justify the expense, which is minimal compared to other cycling related purchases.
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Old 12-21-13, 04:15 PM   #38
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Dedicated e-readers (i.e. e-ink rather than LCD) does not tire the eyes, and just like paper versions they are not backlit - you therefore need normal light to read. The newer ones are really good. You should try one out in direct sunlight. They are very impressive (I have a few different versions, and it is my go-to when I need to read something besides forums, news, and whatever else is on the internet.
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Old 12-21-13, 09:27 PM   #39
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Terex, I do hope ebooks created today are still available 150 years from now. For sure the reason Scott's journals are available now is because they survived the 100 years in paper form. If it had been electronic who knows? I do know I do not have a computer today that can decipher a floppy disk. If all my writing had been saved to a floppy, what would I do? Find someone to move it to another format? Could that be done 100 years from now? Doubtful.
Some may comment, "Who cares?" Many folks do. This subject has been brought up plenty of times with "geeks" I know and we all have similar concerns. For example, how do I run data created on a punch card system? I can't. Don't know anyone who has such a device to decode them, but I remember them from my childhood. All that data on those cards is lost, non-recoverable.
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Old 12-21-13, 09:42 PM   #40
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You don't need to run the data on a punch card or a similarly outdated format. It is the actual data that might be important. So, with a document, or, hell, a music file or photo, you transfer it to a newer format when the old becomes obsolete. Yes, some books have survived, but a lot of books haven't.

Just look at magazines, or news papers. They too are mostly lost, yet you might get lucky. Movies these days are so often shot digitally, and the good thing about that is that you don't have actual film to protect - you can make as many copies as you want and have them stored various places in the world so that they are safe from fire and general degradation.

Oh, well, I see the fun in finding an old book, but in reality I think that it's at least as likely to go missing (or go up in smoke) as a digital file is unable to being read. And a book, regardless of it being in paper or digital form is not executing code like the punch cards of yore.
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