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 Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

 12-31-13, 07:44 AM #1 on2wheelsks  Senior Member Thread Starter     Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Leavenworth County, KS Bikes: 2013 Specialized Sirrus Elite, 2014 Secteur Elite Posts: 82 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) What does N+1 mean and where did the term originate? I think it means a new bike, but where did the terminology come from? Can you help a newbie understand? TIA Pat __________________ The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time. -Bertrand Russell
 12-31-13, 07:51 AM #2 Dorf411 Senior Member   Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NE South Dakota Bikes: 89 Bottecchia, 90's Eddy Merckx MXL, Vision R40, Blk Mtn Cycles Super Cross Posts: 73 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I think it comes from general math or from geometry: A+B+C=N A=Number of bikes in basement B=Number of bikes in garage C=Number of bikes in storage N=Total number of bikes in possession Therefore N+1 is the number of bikes desired!
 12-31-13, 07:53 AM #3 JanMM rebmeM roineS     Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Metro Indy, IN Bikes: RANS V3 ti, RANS V3 cromo, RANS Screamer Posts: 14,275 Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 233 Post(s) Where N is the number of bikes that you currently possess, and 1 is the bike that you will next obtain, N+1 is the correct number of bikes that you should possess. A corollary, sort of, is that because a Backup Bike must be included in the stable, N must be greater than or equal to 2. __________________ RANS V3 Ti, RANS V3 Cromo, RANS Screamer Last edited by JanMM; 12-31-13 at 07:59 AM.
 12-31-13, 08:01 AM #4 Myosmith Lover of Old Chrome Moly     Join Date: May 2011 Location: NW Minnesota Bikes: Posts: 2,734 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 79 Post(s) N+1 basically means that you will always desire one more bike than you already have. D-1 is staying one short of the number of bikes that would result in a divorce.
12-31-13, 08:13 AM   #5
Retro Grouch
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dorf411 I think it comes from general math or from geometry: A+B+C=N A=Number of bikes in basement B=Number of bikes in garage C=Number of bikes in storage N=Total number of bikes in possession Therefore N+1 is the number of bikes desired!
Correct as far as it goes.

Now tell me how you define a "bike".

Is a bike in a box a bike or a storage problem?
If you have a frame and all of the parts but they aren't assembled, is that a bike?
What if you have everything but pedals? Does it still count as a bike? Lots of new bikes come with no pedals.

I HATE when people ask how many bikes I own because I don't know the answer. My wife thinks that she knows, but she's wrong.
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12-31-13, 08:19 AM   #6
RPK79
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Myosmith N+1 basically means that you will always desire one more bike than you already have. D-1 is staying one short of the number of bikes that would result in a divorce.
Can you show us a graph?

 12-31-13, 08:21 AM #7 NVanHiker Senior Member     Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Bikes: 2008 Giant FCR2, 1992 Raleigh hybrid, my son's old mountain bike Posts: 570 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 12 Post(s) I remember back in the early '80's when BASIC language came standard on Apple computers, if you wanted to count something, you added the line N = N+1" to increase the number of something every time the program went through the loop.
 12-31-13, 08:51 AM #8 Dudelsack  A might bewildered...     Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Loovul Bikes: Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires Posts: 6,351 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 4 Post(s) Other useful nomenclature; -FLIP IT AND SLAM IT. -HTFU. -Tombay. -pie. -drope the hamer. -dial it up to 400W. -massive guads. -asploding crabon. There are others but that hits the most commonly used ones. __________________ Signature line for rent.
 12-31-13, 08:53 AM #9 Phil_gretz Journeyman Bike Commuter     Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Alexandria, VA Bikes: '88 Fuji Saratoga, '12 Jamis Sputnik, '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite Posts: 4,284 Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 251 Post(s) And So It goes... "Be careful what you set your heart upon -- for it will surely be yours." -- James Baldwin N+1 points to the insufficiency of things to satisfy the deepest longings of human desire...which are to be known and to be loved. Solomon, who had riches and wisdom beyond calculation, observed at the end of his life, "Better what the eye sees than the roving of the appetite. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind." Last edited by Phil_gretz; 12-31-13 at 08:55 AM. Reason: punctuation
12-31-13, 08:55 AM   #10
Dave Cutter
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Retro Grouch Now tell me how you define a "bike". Is a bike in a box a bike or a storage problem?
(All below is just MHO) A bicycle in a box... is just that. Parked, hanging in a garage, on a porch, in a basement... or a box. All are merely locations and doesn't reflect on a bikes state of existent. Storage problems relate to people and/or homes or locations. A storage problem... is never truly associated with a bicycle.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Retro Grouch If you have a frame and all of the parts but they aren't assembled, is that a bike?
As long as the parts are reasonability preserved, organized and secure in location... yes. If I disassemble my primary ride to clean and recondition it... at some point in the reconditioning does it fail to exist? Of course not.
However..... scattered, lost, damaged, misplaced and mismatched parts and frames do not equal one bike per frame.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Retro Grouch What if you have everything but pedals? Does it still count as a bike? Lots of new bikes come with no pedals.
Pedals are optional. Only with the exception of some rare and/or older collectable bicycles that would require a specific or special pedal. But even with such an exception the bike would still exist as bicycle but also be determined as incomplete, not all original, or "without pedals".

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Retro Grouch I HATE when people ask how many bikes I own because I don't know the answer. My wife thinks that she knows, but she's wrong.
There are many worse things in life than uninventoried wealth. You are a lucky man.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 12-31-13 at 09:12 AM.

12-31-13, 09:18 AM   #11
Dudelsack
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Phil_gretz "Be careful what you set your heart upon -- for it will surely be yours." -- James Baldwin N+1 points to the insufficiency of things to satisfy the deepest longings of human desire...which are to be known and to be loved. Solomon, who had riches and wisdom beyond calculation, observed at the end of his life, "Better what the eye sees than the roving of the appetite. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind."
Proverbs 32:13 Meaningless, meaningless and a chasing of wind, which I could catch if the Queen of Sheba would have made good on her promise of the new Serotta frame and Cinelli stem, with top end Campy groupo and the Zipp 404s."
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12-31-13, 11:43 AM   #12
Dorf411
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Myosmith N+1 basically means that you will always desire one more bike than you already have. D-1 is staying one short of the number of bikes that would result in a divorce.
Upon my last acquisition I realized that I had enough bikes that my wife could no longer tell them apart even considering major paint color differences. This is the "sweet spot", simply get all bike products mailed to the office and casually deliver them back home and you are golden. Is there a formula for the "sweet spot"

 12-31-13, 02:49 PM #13 dbg Si Senior     Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Naperville, Illinois Bikes: Too Numerous (not) Posts: 2,666 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 22 Post(s) I tend to think of it as "N+m" where "m" is the number of frankenbuilds I'm currently engaged with. Most of the "m" bikes do get built, but some get torn down again before any significant rides.
12-31-13, 02:51 PM   #14
Murray Missile
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dorf411 Upon my last acquisition I realized that I had enough bikes that my wife could no longer tell them apart even considering major paint color differences. This is the "sweet spot", simply get all bike products mailed to the office and casually deliver them back home and you are golden. Is there a formula for the "sweet spot"
Hmmm, my wife must be more bike "conscious". As soon as the rear wheel was mounted to the last build as it sat on the workstand my wife gave me the "look" and asked "WHOSE BIKE IS THIS?!" BUSTED! Quickly followed by, "How many does this one make?" Of course I didn't count the three that haven't been assembled yet since technically they're just parts.
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12-31-13, 05:47 PM   #15
JohnJ80
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Myosmith N+1 basically means that you will always desire one more bike than you already have. D-1 is staying one short of the number of bikes that would result in a divorce.
^^ this.

The corollary to this is that your D bike will cost you two times what you thought it would in order to make it the D-1 bike since you have to buy another one of equal value for your cyclist wife. Or if not a cyclist, then something of equal or greater value.

J.

 12-31-13, 05:53 PM #16 Rowan Senior Member   Join Date: Jun 2003 Bikes: Posts: 16,155 Mentioned: 69 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 1078 Post(s) I would have thought it came from the world of statistics where n = sample size. I saw it applied to kayaks the other day. A friend who also is a cyclist (and frame builder) acquired another double sea kayak to go with the one he and his wife already have. He posted that if n+1 can be used for bikes, it can also for kayaks.
12-31-13, 05:56 PM   #17
Rowan
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by JohnJ80 ^^ this. The corollary to this is that your D bike will cost you two times what you thought it would in order to make it the D-1 bike since you have to buy another one of equal value for your cyclist wife. Or if not a cyclist, then something of equal or greater value. J.
Sigh. Yes, the cost of anything I might want is doubled immediately in our household. Except for the tandem. Which cost twice any of our single bikes. Although, come to think of it, I do have the only bike trailer... and rollers. So maybe I am in front just a little.

12-31-13, 06:12 PM   #18
Dan Burkhart
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Retro Grouch Correct as far as it goes. Now tell me how you define a "bike". Is a bike in a box a bike or a storage problem? If you have a frame and all of the parts but they aren't assembled, is that a bike? What if you have everything but pedals? Does it still count as a bike? Lots of new bikes come with no pedals. I HATE when people ask how many bikes I own because I don't know the answer. My wife thinks that she knows, but she's wrong.
You too, huh? If the elves should busy themselves some dark night in my garage, assembling the various frames and components stashed there into complete bikes, I have no idea how many bikes I would find there in the morning, but it would be several more than there is now.

12-31-13, 07:00 PM   #19
Steve B.
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At my house
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12-31-13, 07:34 PM   #20
JanMM
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by NVanHiker I remember back in the early '80's when BASIC language came standard on Apple computers, if you wanted to count something, you added the line N = N+1" to increase the number of something every time the program went through the loop.
My vote for historical origin of N+1.
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12-31-13, 07:54 PM   #21
Zinger
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 Originally Posted by Steve B. At my house
"My Lawyer says the bikes should be split 50/50"

Well you can console yourself with the thought that she'll sell them for only what you told her you paid for them.
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01-01-14, 09:37 AM   #22
jhazel
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dudelsack Proverbs 32:13 Meaningless, meaningless and a chasing of wind, which I could catch if the Queen of Sheba would have made good on her promise of the new Serotta frame and Cinelli stem, with top end Campy groupo and the Zipp 404s."
That is absolutely great. The Queen of Sheba even found that funny and suggested that much of scripture could be livened up with bicycle references. I'm looking for a sermon in there somewhere.

 01-01-14, 09:37 AM #23 on2wheelsks  Senior Member Thread Starter     Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Leavenworth County, KS Bikes: 2013 Specialized Sirrus Elite, 2014 Secteur Elite Posts: 82 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Interesting responses, sounds like I may need to add to the stable just to balance things out! __________________ The time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time. -Bertrand Russell
01-03-14, 12:00 AM   #24
jodphoto
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dorf411 Upon my last acquisition I realized that I had enough bikes that my wife could no longer tell them apart even considering major paint color differences. This is the "sweet spot", simply get all bike products mailed to the office and casually deliver them back home and you are golden. Is there a formula for the "sweet spot"
It depends on storage capability. I have 5 bikes in my garage. My wife's bike plus 2 donor bikes are in front of 2 finished bikes with front wheels removed. In my wife's eyes this is a junkyard where her bike is the only good one. In my basement I have 3 bikes hanging from the ceiling, again with front wheels removed and one complete bike ready to ride. My wife is a smart woman and can certainly count, but this system of camouflage seems to work. It also helps that the garage and basement are man spaces. No lady would even want to go in them. Hope this helps.

01-03-14, 10:25 AM   #25
BluesDawg
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by on2wheelsks Interesting responses, sounds like I may need to add to the stable just to balance things out!
Ah, but the thing about N+1 is that there is perpetual imbalance. You always need one more bike. Always.